How Not To Debate
8 years ago
SJWs, Leftists, Antifa, etc; I've noticed a trend in your manner of debate, to the point that it appears to be an epidemic. Specifically, you do *not* debate; I've found that at the best of times you assume motive for your opponents, assert various types of _isms as an ad-hominem attack, and refuse to back up your statements with even a modicum of evidence; at the worst, you ban and block, insisting that our words aren't worth anything because we're 'racist nazi trolls from 4chan and our statements are automatically invalid' or similar.
Of course, this is not universal; but I've seen very few exceptions in my own personal interactions with Leftists and in watching interactions online. Moreover, I do not expect any Leftists will actually heed this; indeed, I find it deeply humorous that I can tell you exactly what moves I intend to use, and you'll still behave exactly as I predict. But that's just the icing on top; the meat of it is that I know that several people across the political spectrum will see this, and those who are undecided will hopefully be swayed away from your toxic ideologies.
Now, I replied to another person's journal entry - a long dissertation, railing against Trump and his supporters, and I posted a thoughtful response - mostly because I knew it would be absolutely ignored, and once again prove my point that Leftists of all stripes are losing the capacity to engage in any meaningful debate. Lo-and-behold, this was the response I got after my comment was deleted;
"I didn't even read a single word of what you wrote. The icon you are using makes it too obvious. You are a troll from 4chan, and that automatically invalidates anything you write. You are just mad because your troll friend got banned."
It should be clear to anyone with the capacity for critical thought that this is not an argument. My icon is irrelevant, as it is not my argument; I am simply amused at how offended people are by a frog in a toupee, and wear it as a statement both in favor of free speech and in protest of their language-policing. Moreover, not only is "You are a troll from 4chan" irrelevant, it's also untrue; I can count the number of times I've been there on one hand, and it's been months since I've even seen it. Even if I were, however, that is simply an ad-hominem attack used to avoid having to counter what I was actually saying; they had nothing to say about my argument, so they had to try to attack my character. And regarding the troll - once again, they are ascribing motive. I have no idea who this troll is, and have no idea what they're talking about - indeed, I don't think I even mentioned the troll in my post to that person's journal. Yet, rather than engage in meaningful debate, the person just flings insults and accusations and deletes my post - in other words, they are engaging the same trollish, hateful behavior they decry.
But, again, I don't expect any different. And again, I don't expect to change the minds of any Social Justice Warriors, Antifa, Black Lives Matter activists, or indeed Leftists in general; I expect they'll fling the same accusations of being a 'Nazi supporter', or a 'Racist', or a 'Homophobe', all without any supporting evidence, or with twisted identity-politics 'logic' and whatever word-salad they can muster. They don't appear to be interested in debate; they wish to use the same old tactics of slandering and shaming, hoping that they'll win through bullying and hatred.
Well, *chuckles* sorry dearies, it's not going to work. Those very tactics are what turned the more level-headed liberals against you. This is what made millions of people across the country, people who usually vote Democrat, vote instead for an admittedly shady and unsavory Republican. And I intend to keep telling you exactly why you lost, because it amuses me to no end, handing you the key to your self-inflicted prison over and over again, knowing full well you'll just keep throwing it away and rattling the bars of your self-inflicted cages. Ah, but anyway.
I don't think I'll be blocking anyone; you are free to say what you want on my journals. Indeed, I encourage it, just as I encouraged rational, reasonable debate in that deleted comment of mine. See, I'm confident that I am correct, and I am confident that the cores of my beliefs will stand up in the free market of ideas - and on minor issues, I'm willing to shift my position a bit if I find good reason to do so.
If you share this confidence and a love for free speech and free expression, I encourage you to do the same - delete your block lists. Let the anti-free-speech crowd put their own hateful, bigoted rhetoric on display for all to see - don't delete a single comment. Simply ask *why* they believe what they believe, demanding evidence for their assertions, and most of the time you will find them unable to do so - all you'll get is more empty rhetoric, more accusations of ___ism, more non-arguments and fallacies. Point them out and ask again; and again; and again. Sometimes you'll get some actual debates - great! There may be hope for them to move to a less radical position - perhaps not today, perhaps not tomorrow, but someday. But most of the time I expect they'll just continue to make their side look more ridiculous, more extreme, more tyrannical - and that will be their downfall.
Edit: A minor update; the same user that deleted my post and blocked me decided to respond to me in another shout. That is, the user wishes to prevent me from speaking at all on any of their posts, while still being allowed to talk about me. I think this pretty well puts their moral character on display, does it not?
Praise kek, and Shadilay. I leave you with this rather appropriate video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhGYo9TExU
Of course, this is not universal; but I've seen very few exceptions in my own personal interactions with Leftists and in watching interactions online. Moreover, I do not expect any Leftists will actually heed this; indeed, I find it deeply humorous that I can tell you exactly what moves I intend to use, and you'll still behave exactly as I predict. But that's just the icing on top; the meat of it is that I know that several people across the political spectrum will see this, and those who are undecided will hopefully be swayed away from your toxic ideologies.
Now, I replied to another person's journal entry - a long dissertation, railing against Trump and his supporters, and I posted a thoughtful response - mostly because I knew it would be absolutely ignored, and once again prove my point that Leftists of all stripes are losing the capacity to engage in any meaningful debate. Lo-and-behold, this was the response I got after my comment was deleted;
"I didn't even read a single word of what you wrote. The icon you are using makes it too obvious. You are a troll from 4chan, and that automatically invalidates anything you write. You are just mad because your troll friend got banned."
It should be clear to anyone with the capacity for critical thought that this is not an argument. My icon is irrelevant, as it is not my argument; I am simply amused at how offended people are by a frog in a toupee, and wear it as a statement both in favor of free speech and in protest of their language-policing. Moreover, not only is "You are a troll from 4chan" irrelevant, it's also untrue; I can count the number of times I've been there on one hand, and it's been months since I've even seen it. Even if I were, however, that is simply an ad-hominem attack used to avoid having to counter what I was actually saying; they had nothing to say about my argument, so they had to try to attack my character. And regarding the troll - once again, they are ascribing motive. I have no idea who this troll is, and have no idea what they're talking about - indeed, I don't think I even mentioned the troll in my post to that person's journal. Yet, rather than engage in meaningful debate, the person just flings insults and accusations and deletes my post - in other words, they are engaging the same trollish, hateful behavior they decry.
But, again, I don't expect any different. And again, I don't expect to change the minds of any Social Justice Warriors, Antifa, Black Lives Matter activists, or indeed Leftists in general; I expect they'll fling the same accusations of being a 'Nazi supporter', or a 'Racist', or a 'Homophobe', all without any supporting evidence, or with twisted identity-politics 'logic' and whatever word-salad they can muster. They don't appear to be interested in debate; they wish to use the same old tactics of slandering and shaming, hoping that they'll win through bullying and hatred.
Well, *chuckles* sorry dearies, it's not going to work. Those very tactics are what turned the more level-headed liberals against you. This is what made millions of people across the country, people who usually vote Democrat, vote instead for an admittedly shady and unsavory Republican. And I intend to keep telling you exactly why you lost, because it amuses me to no end, handing you the key to your self-inflicted prison over and over again, knowing full well you'll just keep throwing it away and rattling the bars of your self-inflicted cages. Ah, but anyway.
I don't think I'll be blocking anyone; you are free to say what you want on my journals. Indeed, I encourage it, just as I encouraged rational, reasonable debate in that deleted comment of mine. See, I'm confident that I am correct, and I am confident that the cores of my beliefs will stand up in the free market of ideas - and on minor issues, I'm willing to shift my position a bit if I find good reason to do so.
If you share this confidence and a love for free speech and free expression, I encourage you to do the same - delete your block lists. Let the anti-free-speech crowd put their own hateful, bigoted rhetoric on display for all to see - don't delete a single comment. Simply ask *why* they believe what they believe, demanding evidence for their assertions, and most of the time you will find them unable to do so - all you'll get is more empty rhetoric, more accusations of ___ism, more non-arguments and fallacies. Point them out and ask again; and again; and again. Sometimes you'll get some actual debates - great! There may be hope for them to move to a less radical position - perhaps not today, perhaps not tomorrow, but someday. But most of the time I expect they'll just continue to make their side look more ridiculous, more extreme, more tyrannical - and that will be their downfall.
Edit: A minor update; the same user that deleted my post and blocked me decided to respond to me in another shout. That is, the user wishes to prevent me from speaking at all on any of their posts, while still being allowed to talk about me. I think this pretty well puts their moral character on display, does it not?
Praise kek, and Shadilay. I leave you with this rather appropriate video; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2AhGYo9TExU
"Also do not contact users whom you have blocked."
Well, there we go. Thank you for informing me; for some reason I'd been reading that as "Do not contact users who have blocked you" - seemed superfluous.
But, anyway, I like to talk to them because it's amusing. To watch them freak the fuck out when their usual attacks of maligning, ad-hominem, or useless and meaningless jargon are picked to pieces without any effect... It really is entertaining to watch them flounder.
Oh, and here's a video explaining why Trump won. It's by a self-aware leftist who basically reinforces your points: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GLG9g7BcjKs
I'm a former Trotskyist turned moderate social democrat, you (I correct me if I'm wrong) are a libertarian. We debate about things like healthcare, taxes, and the free market, we explain why we think we are right about the subject. This is fine because this is a good and rational debate, but you know what isn't right? Silencing your opponents because their opinion scares you, this is wrong because of two things; If you run away from their opinion, you can't debate it, you can't show the world why your opinion is better, and two: Your just a coward who is afraid of the world, news flash: everybody is different from you, stop trying to force them because that is totalitarianism.
I my self see me as right of center. I have rightists views and leftist views. It all depends on the specifics of what is being talked about.
P.S. the A-10 is the most awesome.