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The Difference between Furry and Fantasy
5 years ago
Had a long interesting conversation with my wife kabier over dinner tonight about what separates the furry fandom from broader nerd culture. This is a bit of a piggy-back on the journal discussing the current state of the furry community posted earlier today.
We have conflicting views in regards to how to expand and evolve our content over the long-term. I feel crafting little worlds of furry characters is still an untapped well that can be further fleshed out. I don't like the idea that there is something to be shameful about enjoying furry content and if there is, the solution is increasing the quality until it's worthy of respect. Better writing, characters and ofcourse, artwork to tie it all together. I don't see porn as something -dirty- or otherwise degenerate as it's just fiction, like many other creative mediums. I feel we are making decent progress in that regards expanding our character universe to a website, developing characters over a series of comics and making them canon with our games.
The issue comes with the amount of flack that comes with pushing the furry envelope and trying to play the fence by bleeding into other fandoms. Bareback Valley, our 2020 comic about a human character getting up to antics on a barn with furries turned out to be too controversial for Patreon, getting heavily censored and kind of ruining the plot. We wanted to expand our furry universe to include other species and races like many other creators end up doing as their content evolves with time. Older comics that were acceptable in their time such as Lesson Learnt, Double Trouble, Man's Best Friend etc have all since been censored from Patreon due to consent not being transparent. This kind of censorship isn't exclusive to Patreon, the comic Servants of the Serpent caused enough controversy on e621 to warrant it's admins banning on the content to avoid drama.
We anticipate our new BBS comic will also get censored to some extent due to the themes of the game not being very consensual, having a lot of feral looking characters and monsters. We are also bringing back old characters which need to have their relationships retconned to work on Patreon. For whatever reason, furries are not treated with the same familiarity as more traditional fantasy races like kobolds, dragons, elves, orcs etc. Porn of these species has been getting a pass for a long time, getting more leniency on these platforms.
Patreon also recently pressured to censor our website due to it hosting our back catalogue of furry characters and their comics. Instead we just removed all Patreon advertising and replaced it with Subscribestar which so far has been far more supportive of adult content creators. Twitter also has a track record of censorship in which they blacklist adult content with shadowbans to limit their exposure and issue suspensions if you demonstrate dissent.
We have been debating on whether the BBS comic should have it's more risque scenes cut to tame it down and make it more palatable for platforms like Patreon/Twitter, but why are we suddenly willing to bend the knee to these platforms? Patreon didn't exist when we started out in the community and I don't see why it is suddenly so important that it's worth sacrificing the creative freedom of your content. On the other hand, not willing to compromise or make a sacrifice can be a form of strangling the golden goose. Our supporters on Patreon and Subscribestar make us some very good money that allows us to hire a full team of supporting artists, it would put all their jobs in jeopardy by trying to rock the boat.
How this ties into the fantasy community is I feel a lot of these issues would be avoided if we were crafting stories set in a more traditional DnD themed universe where humans and anthropomorphic species have already been long since established. Having sex in a tavern seems to get more of a pass than modern settings and furry characters remind people too much of their real counterparts. kabier wants to take our content in that direction as there is far less of a risk to be misinterpreted. It would also allow us to branch into a new, more mature community that has been around for a long time. We recently made local friends who are heavily into DnD and the established universe that it presents to you is a lot of fun. I however, feel this genre has been already done to great extent already and writing comics in that setting feels a bit overplayed. There is an appeal to making your own universe.
She feels part of what makes a being a -furry- shameful is it looks basic, taking a real animal species and making them sexy with human attributes, but can't the same be said for most fantasy characters? I feel every community has basic designs and power fantasies. I've seen my fair share of WoW porn where it's just peoples ingame avatars, Skyrim etc. Any fantasy game has an adult community if the universe is compelling enough to draw people in.
There are cringey aspects of the furry fandom but I feel the same can be said about every single nerdy fandom that exists.
We have conflicting views in regards to how to expand and evolve our content over the long-term. I feel crafting little worlds of furry characters is still an untapped well that can be further fleshed out. I don't like the idea that there is something to be shameful about enjoying furry content and if there is, the solution is increasing the quality until it's worthy of respect. Better writing, characters and ofcourse, artwork to tie it all together. I don't see porn as something -dirty- or otherwise degenerate as it's just fiction, like many other creative mediums. I feel we are making decent progress in that regards expanding our character universe to a website, developing characters over a series of comics and making them canon with our games.
The issue comes with the amount of flack that comes with pushing the furry envelope and trying to play the fence by bleeding into other fandoms. Bareback Valley, our 2020 comic about a human character getting up to antics on a barn with furries turned out to be too controversial for Patreon, getting heavily censored and kind of ruining the plot. We wanted to expand our furry universe to include other species and races like many other creators end up doing as their content evolves with time. Older comics that were acceptable in their time such as Lesson Learnt, Double Trouble, Man's Best Friend etc have all since been censored from Patreon due to consent not being transparent. This kind of censorship isn't exclusive to Patreon, the comic Servants of the Serpent caused enough controversy on e621 to warrant it's admins banning on the content to avoid drama.
We anticipate our new BBS comic will also get censored to some extent due to the themes of the game not being very consensual, having a lot of feral looking characters and monsters. We are also bringing back old characters which need to have their relationships retconned to work on Patreon. For whatever reason, furries are not treated with the same familiarity as more traditional fantasy races like kobolds, dragons, elves, orcs etc. Porn of these species has been getting a pass for a long time, getting more leniency on these platforms.
Patreon also recently pressured to censor our website due to it hosting our back catalogue of furry characters and their comics. Instead we just removed all Patreon advertising and replaced it with Subscribestar which so far has been far more supportive of adult content creators. Twitter also has a track record of censorship in which they blacklist adult content with shadowbans to limit their exposure and issue suspensions if you demonstrate dissent.
We have been debating on whether the BBS comic should have it's more risque scenes cut to tame it down and make it more palatable for platforms like Patreon/Twitter, but why are we suddenly willing to bend the knee to these platforms? Patreon didn't exist when we started out in the community and I don't see why it is suddenly so important that it's worth sacrificing the creative freedom of your content. On the other hand, not willing to compromise or make a sacrifice can be a form of strangling the golden goose. Our supporters on Patreon and Subscribestar make us some very good money that allows us to hire a full team of supporting artists, it would put all their jobs in jeopardy by trying to rock the boat.
How this ties into the fantasy community is I feel a lot of these issues would be avoided if we were crafting stories set in a more traditional DnD themed universe where humans and anthropomorphic species have already been long since established. Having sex in a tavern seems to get more of a pass than modern settings and furry characters remind people too much of their real counterparts. kabier wants to take our content in that direction as there is far less of a risk to be misinterpreted. It would also allow us to branch into a new, more mature community that has been around for a long time. We recently made local friends who are heavily into DnD and the established universe that it presents to you is a lot of fun. I however, feel this genre has been already done to great extent already and writing comics in that setting feels a bit overplayed. There is an appeal to making your own universe.
She feels part of what makes a being a -furry- shameful is it looks basic, taking a real animal species and making them sexy with human attributes, but can't the same be said for most fantasy characters? I feel every community has basic designs and power fantasies. I've seen my fair share of WoW porn where it's just peoples ingame avatars, Skyrim etc. Any fantasy game has an adult community if the universe is compelling enough to draw people in.
There are cringey aspects of the furry fandom but I feel the same can be said about every single nerdy fandom that exists.
There is no small scale solution to solve that problem though, it's part of the culture now.
It's the platforms we choose to use with algorithms that control what we see to get clicks. It's all add driven, twitter/ Facebook whatever.
I think FA is more neutral at this and low barrier.
(They could have an API for uploading via mobile app or something cool)
The bottom line is Unless you host the server / web page / content yourself. You'll always be subjected to the censorship and control of the site. Whether is on brand or too controversial.
Show me several studies that people exposed to fantasy artwork are more inclined to do those things IRL, and I'll change my tune. Otherwise, go nuts.
And if Patreon, refuses to give the creator what they really want, they should say, "Screw you! I'll go make my own site that's better than yours!" And that's people should be doing! Making a site that gives the creator the freedom they want and earning money for their hard work. Not forcing them bend to their will and do what they want!
You should never sacrifice money over you're creative freedom. It isn't right. However it's hard to get some people use to change when they rather have everything the same old way.
I too could see the furry theme being fleshed out into bigger things like movies, video games and novels. You just need the right people to lead to a better and brighter future.
A genuine open platform for furries would come under fire immediately. If it's an independent trying to host the servers, it's likely efforts will be made to bully their advertisers away and it's co-founders blacklisted. They may also attempt to get the platform in legal trouble by misconstruing the content as more nefarious then it actually is.
It's in part why new platforms are all essentially the same, they can't afford to actually challenge the status quo in a way that would offend the Twitter mob.
BTW, I apologize if this is rambly, it's a little late XD
Some are imbedded into modern society in there own towns like in Amorous, or human anthro mixed areas like Bare Back Valley setting, and some rebel and start classic medieval fantasy and tribal community's like the one in Servants of the Serpent and Double Trouble. Then lastly others are weaponized further and made more beastly abominations like in Bare Back Streets.
If the problem is you cannot find a patronage platform to fund your projects, then find other simple ways to fund it. You're artists, you can take in small, simple commissions or YCHs. Calculate time and effort. If you can do a colored sketch in 1 hour, and get paid $100 for that sketch, do you really need to rely heavily on patreon? Work around unbreakable problems.
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Don't try to cater to everyone, because not everyone is paying. Don't try to reach a crowd you already reached and still got nothing from.
For a good example of this, a good pal of mine was witch hunted, accused of something awful and harassed because of it. Despite... no proof, at all. He lost... 3 patreons, out of 217. Hundreds of people were publicly bashing and hating him, the same hundreds of people that basically never cared or supported him.
Now, I do want to state I never contributed to your content, most likely for the same reason above. I'm well aware of your content, but I'm not supporting. Not because I disagree with anything you make.
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As for why I never bothered to support your content, is the same reason why I don't support most porn games. Never have porn be the reward for losing/getting damage, it's just REALLY bad game design. I don't understand why so many porn games do this, it makes no sense. Imagine playing Dark Souls, but you only get Souls if you die, it means progression is locked behind purposefully failing. You are doing game design wrong if you are putting a rewarding design behind a punishment design.
If you want a lot of non-con porn in a video game, design a game/story that rewards that sort of gameplay.
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As for the comics they are very pretty, artistically beautiful. Not to mention super hot kinks. But are just good porn, bad at... everything else.
Servants of the Serpent for example, so much of the story is shown in rooms. We have a throne, a dorm, a prison, a brothel(?), a kitchen, a punishment cell, a waterfall bath, a tent. That is A LOT of variety but you don't see any of the village, literally NOTHING that visually establishes the village until page 30 then you see a temple and two huts. All of it is told and shown inside rooms.
This becomes a huge problem when it comes to perspective. For example for what I mean, page 5, where did that gold alter come from? How far away is the queen from the protagonist? Is the queen and protagonist even in the same room? Those paws on the queens shoulders, are they the dark blue guy from the last page? Where did he come from? How huge is he to reach around that chair?! Next page 7, the protagonist is let out of the cell, and goes... right outside his cell? Is he by the throne? Waterfall? I have no idea where he went to.
You are moving through a world, but not showing any of it.
This is a problem for multiple pages.
Bareback Valley is a much improved step up with its setting! But there is no... interest. It's basically a bunch of porn scenes with no interesting characters or story for that matter. Oh no! The main character could lose this job, okay? Why should we care? That is basically the entire conflict so far. You might as well just make porn scenes and not bother with trying a story if this is the best that is going to come.
It's super hot amazing porn, but not a good anything else. The plus side, you can actually remove all the speech bubbles from Bareback Valley, and still can get a good feel of the story. Simple story is not a bad thing, but you need to have non-simple good characters.
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Regardless of my critic, I'll repeat my words again, don't try to cater to everyone, because not everyone is paying. Don't try to reach a crowd you already reached and still got nothing from. Don't tone things, make whatever you damn well please.
I'm not too concerned with pleasing everyone, moreso I foresee Patreon as a wave that is starting to crash on people with the direction it's going. Many benefits come with having your dream projects fully funded and having those kinds of resources, but the lingering changes of themes is concerning as I don't want to tame them down for the sake of people who don't like the content anyway. There are techniques we can use to please the platform while still providing the content we want to share, it's just playing with fire.
As for the game we are making and porn being a failure state, I haven't encountered too many games yet where taking the role of the sexual predator has been compelling for me. Too often going out of your way to have sex with enemies feels like it's breaking up the combat flow too much to be a reward incentive. There can still be some skill in a failure state with clever use of minigames and struggle systems to return to the combat state, it creates tension and chaos to make enemies feel more threatening which I find to be more fun. However, porn games come down to taste and each opinion is equally valid, I will challenge myself to make a game in which the player is the aggressor for sex in the future and try to make it engaging.
“ feels part of what makes a being a -furry- shameful is it looks basic, taking a real animal species and making them sexy with human attributes, but can't the same be said for most fantasy characters? I feel every community has basic designs and power fantasies.”
And my mind went to “so when someone made elves, they decided to make humans sexy”
In my defense it is 3:30 am
Now for my theory why people don’t like human x furry relationships is because beastiality is a real thing and, while there are more interesting furries, if you throw a stone you are almost guaranteed to hit a feline or canine. With so many animal fursonas that are of species that can be Household pets it gives furries A bad look when the outside world sees furry art of a human getting freaky with a furry.
Say the furry is a khajiit though and people only seem to calm partially 🤦♂️
Personally I hope to one day have my own human x furry story made, but with how fickle people are about the idea it might not happen any time soon
Also it doesn’t help that the majority of people that know of the furry fandom and are not a part of the fandom, only seem to see the perverse sexual side of it
Really? They legitimately banned the comic because of 'drama'? The place that allows gore, cub, necrophilia, shitting dick nipples, etc? If people were creating drama over anything on a website that has a blacklist and tag blocking, then any admin with a single iota of a testicle left would tell them to STFU or get banned.
The more I read about e621 the less respect I have for it and the administrative decisions made over there.
Mods tried to get it under control but they gave up as it was more reports then they could handle. I contacted them around the time Double Trouble was concluding if they wanted to remove the DNP listing and they said no, it was too abusive for them.
And all of that drama over some fucking hypnosis when they've got actual rape on the website? Jesus christ what a joke.
what caused all the drama?
but i guess i'm an exception...
Admittedly though, porn is not going to be the focus of my stories. But I may have done some small side-comic porn nonsense.
It IS going to be dark themed though and welp... yeeahhh. I'm afraid I'll trigger some group and get cancelled forever over my fantasy storytelling.
I got curious and had a look at it
the payout requirements are so shady and a huge nope to me: https://www.subscribestar.com/tos "Payouts":
"The payout can be made only by a request and only if the Star’s profile meets the following three conditions on the moment of the payout request:
At least 5 active subscribers.
At least $150 in pledges collected.
At least 14 days have passed since the account's initial approval date."
Namely, the "At least 5 active subscribers. + At least $150 in pledges collected." part.
For me it means that IF my content ever gets some support there, I'm not going to see anything from it in my bank account.
Subscribestar is for huge, popular names only
Small creators like me are stuck with Patreon if anything... and don't have me even mention Ko-fi's mindblowing censorship level
The payout minimum conditions are not a deterrent as we clear that threshold. In part the reason why it's there is due to the fees required to pay someone out directly to the bank, it's roughly $35 USD. They don't want to charge you more than 50% of your earnings.
While I do see the point in discouraging payouts below 150USD (but still, I believe the "star" should be able to withdraw even if they have just 36USD and end up with 1USD if they choose so), the "At least 5 ACTIVE subscribers" doesn't seem justified to me? Do you know something to back it at all? From my perspective, the platform looks like trying to increase the odds of them keeping all of the least successful creators' money, after all, only a tiny % of creators on e.g. Patreon have Patronage comparable to the Subscribestar's requirements... (and also includigng the period before the sudden over-censorship)
(I, for instance, never had more than 5 Patrons at a time at any point (been there since 2014), Subscribestar is almost certain to not work for me exactly because of the first requirement:( I'd take the risk if it weren't for that very one, if it was only the 150USD I'd just hope I'll get there eventually in more or less years, but the reality is, the "min 5 active supporters" comes in to stop me just because I'm too small. Eh...)
It just hurt to see I can't even try to use the alternative I'd got so hopeful about - just because I'm too small to actually hope for ever getting a payout...
There are a bunch of really nice super supportive people in it, but also a whole brigade of drama fueled bitches... If you are willing to get your hands a bit dirty you'll find a few gems but you always have to watch your back. So I never really ventured in deeply and remained on the edge of the fandom. Instead redesigning my art in ways I personally wanted and found myself a nice group of other "border furries" that share my attitude of "cool art and such but we don't want to really get in all that far." And we just watch the fandom from our tiny ward.
I don’t think you guys should be force to go into a fantasy setting, with that said, if you wish to do that I don’t see a problem with it ether.
Kaber has a wonderful art style, I still wish to one day work with you guys to learn and evolve my own art, a pipe dream but I’ll still dream on it.
Don’t let anyone say you can’t do anything, don’t let anyone stop you from being you. If Patreon wishes to dictate what you make then yeah, do use them. I’m lucky for now because my stuff is still so small on there radar that I can hide, but I don’t see anything wrong with your art, which in all honesty IS fantasy as your characters aren’t irl animals.
Idk, however I think you both should keep going and keep living your dreams. Don’t let anyone stop you from being you. You’ll have my support for as long as I can support you.
However that's not to say other races as you've mentioned getting passes while other furry stuff isn't, certainly isn't fair at all. The thing with Twitter is that it's odd human nudity and sex is allowed on there and yet some people with their furry porn adult content aren't. However not bending the knee to Patreon and Twitter is a good thing. You should be allowed to make your content and what you want because it makes you happy. Nobody has the right to tell you what you can and can't make especially when they are nobodies. But yes at times sacrifices must be made for the greater good.
In the end I'm sure you two will figure things out and make this work. It is a shame though that every community has these darker sides to them but they can't stand in the way of what we want to do and shine with a beautiful light.
It's one thing when cartoon animals of different species 'marry' but until we actually encounter talking aliens who want to shag us, it's not something likely to be up for popular debate.
I wasn't aware I was trying to argue anything - just observing that since society in general hasn't yet had a concrete reason to address intelligent animals interacting with humans intimately, so it's inevitable that many/most will refer to the widely held taboo in that area relating to mundane animals.
People constantly forget the Little Prince's popular quote or don't understand it, heck, even in regards to mere clothing and post-accident/disease deformations, and to skin color in our own species, seeing that just forget a recognition in non-humane faced folk if we had some exist irl. The idea that the sapience is tied to human LOOK is just the most extreme manifestation of the problem humanity STILL can't grow out of as a whole.
Also, there's no difference between human x Asgardian, human x elf (e.g. LOTR), human x Navii, human x Beast, human x Nick Wilde and human x talking dragon (e.g. Dragonheart) in terms of consent etc., but somehow only the latter 2 are so frequently frowned upon, although the difference is just in the looks, not in the mind (they are all literally human inside), but still, I guess that if someone doesn't frown upon Beauty and the Beast, they may be reasoned with (sure, we know the Beast is a charmed human from a start... BUT Belle doesn't until the kiss! if one would call a human attracted to Dragonheart's Draco a zoophile, why wouldn't they call Belle one? she's in the same position with the Beast! and, thankfully, frowning upon that Disney movie and pairing is to be generally frowned upon, that might be a rather powerful argument, I think), just pity so many of them can't figure it out all by themselves, at least that the non-human looking character may be of a sapient mind, especially if it's depicted doing human things and expressions like it often is. And that if the mind is sapient, there can't be zoophilia just like there is no zoophilia in both intraskincolor and interskincolor relationships irl...
We need the humanity to open their eyes and normalise the lack of a tie between looks and sapience, because that's the same thing that wired the racist minds and all other appearance-based discrimination out there, it's the same shit, just different level.
Well, and let us, creators, build more cool worlds and species as a sideeffect, without accusing us of creating zoophile/beastiality stuff while we don't.
I feel like we all should boycott Patreon by calling them shallow and racist for discriminating furry and other anthro contents while allowing the same things for humanoidXhumanoid! Guess they don't want a racist label, so we should give them exactly that for their super specific discriminatory rules.
Imaginary characters, on the other hand, are exactly that. Trying to assert any sort of moral compulsion on anyone to like or approve of things that don't actually exist - let alone still deeper imaginary behaviours involving them - and particularly trying to align that with something as fundamentally real and serious and violent and debilitating and spiteful as real-world actual racism, suggests such a disconnect, such a rarefied degree of entitlement and fragility, that I don't know how to respond. I suspect trolling.
Discrimination and belittlement of fictional sapient creatures based on the looks is a brief reflection of how an individual would approach an irl sapient creature of the given non-humanoid look level - in general, if we show intollerance/hostility for a fictional depiction of a phenomenon (homosexuality, unusual clothing, revenge, cheating, cruelty, animal abuse), it means we feel at least that intollerance level towards the same phenomenon irl, and it can only be greater for its irl manifestation (because it's real). Sure, tollerance for the fictional depiction can be greter than for irl but not vice versa.
If you see Dragonheart's Draco (who is 100% human with non-humanoid appearance) and perceive him as sth lesser to humans just for looking non-humanoid, one would have a huge problem to convince you that the talking slug of beyond-human sapience level is not sth lesser than humans. We still have a huge problem to convince racists and nazis that other humans are not lesser than their own skincolor or nation... you think they don't feel any portion of their racist and nazist feelings when consuming fiction? When a homophobe visits a homosexual artwork and makes an undeniably homophobic remark, you can safely assume that the level of their homophobia against irl people is at least as high as his reaction to homosexual fiction has shown and that he'd think at least as badly of the image if you told them the artwork depicts a real couple, if not worse because its real. It only doesn't work the other way around (someone can fap to zoophilic porn drawings but report zoopilic porn recordings or spit at their beastiality-practising neighbour and report them. But if someone feels repulsed by zoophilic porn drawings or HQ realistic zoo. animations, there's no chance they won't be repulsed by the idea of commiting irl beastiality... This is the corelation between in/tolerance of fiction and in/tolerance of reality. All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares.)
that being said... I don't like how the fandom has been changing over the years.. this censorship has crept up on us getting worse and worse over the years as a direct mirror of our own human social structure. snowflakes are everywhere, cancel culture is everywhere. the furry fandom has long been open and inviting to everyone of all walks of life. that was a greatest strength at one point in time. it didn't matter who you were in regards to human social structures to us furs. your gender? irrelevant. sexual orientation? who cares? be yourself, we love you anyway. Your race/ethnicity/nationality? again, doesn't matter, we welcome everyone. Religion?? whatever you believe is fine, we're all part of the same open and loving community. people who would otherwise be enemies out there could be the best of friends in here..
but you see.. that openness is a double edged sword as it allowed louder more aggressive folks in as well, people who seek to control the fandom, to dictate what is and is not acceptable as a whole, based not on the community's beliefs but on their own and the soapbox they are preaching from. it was small at first. little outcries here and there but now those people make up the majority, or are at least the most vocal and manipulative leading the fandom to the state it currently finds itself in..
Will things ever go back to their glory days? the optimist side of me hopes so.. but the realist in me worries probably not..
Have you ever stopped to consider "every site, tons of people, and the general opinion seems to be my things are cringe and cause waves...??" Have you sat down to actually try and think about what the issue could be, or are you wrapped up in keeping the blame everywhere else?
By all means, moving to Subscribestar is the smarter option for a project that often has contentious content, failure to deliver, and changes its contents without checking with its backers. They allow a lot more in the ay of... I don't want to say abuse of your community, but it is what it is. Honestly, if you just committed to actually completing your projects as they were I am pretty certain you'd have a lot less push back as is.
If you are targeting your claims of procrastination towards game development, that too receives monthly updates. Games can take more than a year to be considered feature complete. Our team has evolved to include many people and we are proud of the progress the Bare Backstreets game has made in the time it's been in development.
I'm unsure of what you are exactly trying to claim is not being worked on.
No, no the game. You shifted the type of game a couple of times without completing the original, Eromancer did this too and it took a heavy toll on their backing and people got pretty upset. I like their project actually, and I think their brawler is going to be pretty good. But suddenly and completely dropping one project without completing it and moving it on will naturally piss people off.
Basically shifting from the brawler to a platformer, it's naturally going to rile some people up against you. It puts a bad rep with the Patreon moderation team, potential publishers, fans etc. That and the feral comics you had made, drew the Patreon team to watch you much, much closer than they normally would for most projects. They're quick to judge creators for every single thing they made regardless if a project fits their standards or not. Unfortunately, you gotta play that game or essentially get fucked.
So yeah you're going to have more scrutiny on your pages and your off-Patreon socials etc. So Kabier is... right, but for the wrong reasons.
"How this ties into the fantasy community is I feel a lot of these issues would be avoided if we were crafting stories set in a more traditional DnD themed universe where humans and anthropomorphic species have already been long since established. Having sex in a tavern seems to get more of a pass than modern settings and furry characters remind people too much of their real counterparts. kabier wants to take our content in that direction as there is far less of a risk to be misinterpreted. It would also allow us to branch into a new, more mature community that has been around for a long time. We recently made local friends who are heavily into DnD and the established universe that it presents to you is a lot of fun. I however, feel this genre has been already done to great extent already and writing comics in that setting feels a bit overplayed. There is an appeal to making your own universe."
You do need to play within the boundaries like Kabier is thinking if you want to survive on Patreon (subscribe star this won't be an issue but you will never get movement from SS to Patreon unless you incentivize it) but the issue isn't your setting it's needing to scrub and again, play by their rules on the whole. Human on Anthro stuff isn't banned technically but your project and Sex Curses' got hit (Kabier spoke with LewdLogic, Hydro, SacBoy, and myself in EroDev) because of both your reps. Sex Curse for having extreme content under its belt, yours for extreme content and user issued complaints about the project changing.
But yeah keep up your updating etc, and if you want to keep patreon you're gonna have to play more carefully than most off of the platform too. Because they are 100% watching everything you do at this point. It might not be fair but hell, that's what every employer/platform does these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ru_CsPotDOE
She's cute, trust me. Maybe if you spread that fanatic fanboism a bit thinner you'll approach something rational.
Tracer's backside was too sexy for the great majority of men. They couldn't handle it. Their minds were in danger of being destroyed by its sight.
The 1990's Minerva Mink episodes would be impossible to product today. Hello Nurse is too sexy for television to be in the new Animaniacs.
I think giving up any "ground" risks a sort of "give an inch, take a mile" sort of situation, but obviously that's easier said for me since I'm not a content creator.
I mean, noone can just ban some people just because "i don't like what you do" The funny part of the art is the free will to do whatever you imagine, porn or not.
But well, it has happend before in past eras. It is not easy to a fandom or new style to get respected or be valorated the same as others.
A bunch of classic artists got their art banned because it was too nsfw for that era, like "La maja desnuda" from Goya, that version got banned.
Furry porn should be the same as any other fantasy porn. Even the Furry inself should be just accepted as any other fantasy style.
I remember one of your lastest works, when you put that human man in the comic and you had to change him to a Furry one.
I do mostly "beauty and beast" art 'cause i love it, but i think we have people in the Furry fandom that doesn't like that kind of relationships because "Doesn't make sense" or "relationships between humans and anthro feels weird".
Even i got some people telling me that i will not ever be part of the Furry Fandom just because i don't represent myself as one having a "fursona" or because i draw humans too. (Even knowing that humans are animals too.. )
So i just decided to change the "furry" for "kemono" since japanese ,or Asian culture in general, are more attached to anthropomorphic characters than most part of the world, and more open to relationships human/kemono.
It is hard but i guess just needs to keep pushing until they accept it. Porn or not, it is what you like and they can't just ban you for that. I wish good luck with all your project and for all your team too.
It's a shame furries get so much shit from the outside world already, and yet we tend to stab and criticize one another even more harshly than others. It's paradoxical.
Anyway, keep being awesome, Jasonafex! And
your wife kabier too!
With that in mind, I'm sure Subscriber will most likely go down the same path. Being accommodating to content creators and then all content creators flocking to their platform to escape the oppressive censorship of sites too big for themselves anymore. Then eventually Subscriber will collapse under its own weight too. All we can do as a community is try to utilize what platforms we can until something better replaces it.