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I have discovered ice on Mars. Of course, ice has been discovered elsehwere on Mars already. In fact, there appears to be ice all over the damn place, even far from the poles where it had been known to exist for more than a century. But the Phoenix lander discovered ice under mere millimeters of red soil at latitudes no higher than London, England on Earth. Meteors have created new craters even while our orbiters passed overhead and photographed newly exposed masses of blue-white ice. In subsequent passes the orbiter recorded the slow disappearance of exposed ice, confirming that ice cannot exist without cover. Nevertheless, it appears to exist far nearer the equator than previously thought likely. We've even seen frost appear with the coming of winter, as photographed by the early Pathfinder lander. So why not ice in Gale Crater, where the Curiosity rover currently explores? While downloading some 200 photos from Sol 137, I happened to notice a white spot, deep in the shadow under an overhanging rock formation. There had been whitish splotches elsewhere on the site, but they were clearly mineral deposits -- thin and scale-like. They didn't look at all like this. My discovery looked exactly like a small amount of snow that hadn't melted because it was in the shadow of a fence or rock in Northern Ontario in late Spring, protected from the sun. Moreover, there was dark stain at the foot of the "snow," as though made by water melted from the snow. Similar dark stains have been seen in other locations on Mars by orbiters, where sub-surface ice is thought to have liquified and run just under the surface. So, was this actually ice or snow, and melt-water, as it looked?
I immediately e-mailed NASA with my "discovery." Thank's to me, NASA may not accidentally overlook a momentous discover -- water on Mars where it was not thought to be present, and actually exposed on the surface. Of course, if they ever read my e-mail at all, whatever thieving engineer has read it will claim the discovery for himself, and probably name it after his daughter or favourite bar. But *we'll* all know better, won't we?
For the record, I have named this "Saara's Icebox." If it's just gypsum or something else unimportant, you never heard me say that.
I immediately e-mailed NASA with my "discovery." Thank's to me, NASA may not accidentally overlook a momentous discover -- water on Mars where it was not thought to be present, and actually exposed on the surface. Of course, if they ever read my e-mail at all, whatever thieving engineer has read it will claim the discovery for himself, and probably name it after his daughter or favourite bar. But *we'll* all know better, won't we?
For the record, I have named this "Saara's Icebox." If it's just gypsum or something else unimportant, you never heard me say that.
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At some of the lowest elevations during summer months (yeah it waddles north and south hemispheres), it is believed there may be just enough atmospheric pressure -- again, at the lowest elevations -- that ice can melt into liquid water. It can only occur during summer not just because of temperature, but because during winter months, so much carbon dioxide freezes out of the atmosphere that the atmosphere thins considerably to the point even the lowest elevations lack the temperature to reach the 'triple point' (the conditions, primarily temperature and atmospheric pressure, at which a particular substance -- like water -- can exist in sold, liquid and gas phases simulteaneously; generally, with most substances -- and water is included -- there is no liquid phase at any pressure below the triple point).
Sorry for my geekery. :P
I do wonder if the Mars norther polar ice cap (beneath its seasonal frozen carbon dioxide cap, there is a permanent northern water ice cap!) was formed like our own, with successive layers of frozen precipitation (snow or ice falling). If so, we could take ice core samples like on earth and peek at the exact composition of Mars' atmosphere in the distant past when it sustained enough water for there to be a water cycle that enabled the ice cap to form out of precipitation! It is probably less likely to work for the subsurface ice at lower lattitudes, since those may have formed from the last liquid water on Mars that froze, more or less, at once, and would then not be stratified to preserve a gradual record, over time, of Mars' ancient water-friendly atmosphere.
Sorry for my geekery. :P
I do wonder if the Mars norther polar ice cap (beneath its seasonal frozen carbon dioxide cap, there is a permanent northern water ice cap!) was formed like our own, with successive layers of frozen precipitation (snow or ice falling). If so, we could take ice core samples like on earth and peek at the exact composition of Mars' atmosphere in the distant past when it sustained enough water for there to be a water cycle that enabled the ice cap to form out of precipitation! It is probably less likely to work for the subsurface ice at lower lattitudes, since those may have formed from the last liquid water on Mars that froze, more or less, at once, and would then not be stratified to preserve a gradual record, over time, of Mars' ancient water-friendly atmosphere.
The winds in Valles Marineris might be a hazard or might not. Not much air to be moving along ... but it could well move at a very high velocity. Wind seems to keep a perpetual haze of dust in the Martian atmosphere that is much murkier than anything I've seen on Earth ... except around New Jersey.
Just to build on what you said, I live in Arizona and I work in the mountains here, they develop these rovers here because of similar geology and terrain (albeit with macro level plants and animals), and the cracking on those rocks looks very similar to high altitude cracking caused by the expansion of frozen water.
Wouldn't surprise me. So far, I've heard no general outline of how Gale Crater was formed. Were there lava flows? To me, the Yellowknife Bay area looks very much like a layer of viscous lava over sedimentary rocks (Pui Pui I think is the type). I'm guessing this because some of the rocks are dark, fine textured, and very vesicular, while other rocks are fine grained and lighter coloured, but solid. So far NASA hasn't said anything -- for all they've said, Gale Crater might be floored with astro-turf.
Time for rust flavored ice cream!
Now for a geek moment.
Is that CO2 ice or H20 Ice?
It seems to be in shadow of the rock, I would quess that the latitude of the rocks location would determine the ice composition. If sunlight can reach the ice, it would have sublimated before now. I am not sure about the amount of water ice that is present.
Also could the wind over the rock create a pocket of low pressure that could keep temps low enough to preserve the ice?
My knowledge of martian climate and atmosphere is limited, but I have a fair idea of the involved environmental factors.
Now for a geek moment.
Is that CO2 ice or H20 Ice?
It seems to be in shadow of the rock, I would quess that the latitude of the rocks location would determine the ice composition. If sunlight can reach the ice, it would have sublimated before now. I am not sure about the amount of water ice that is present.
Also could the wind over the rock create a pocket of low pressure that could keep temps low enough to preserve the ice?
My knowledge of martian climate and atmosphere is limited, but I have a fair idea of the involved environmental factors.
I don't think CO2 ice forms that near the equator. It would need to approach 175 below zero for that, and that's a tad colder than I'd expect, even in winter and at night. Water ice, on the other hand, has been observed when uncovered by meteor impact quite near the equator. How so much go there is rather a mystery. Mabye Mars' oceans didn't so much dry up as become covered up with dust after freezing. More likley it buids up as frost -- one of the Vikings saw frost on the shaded side of small rocks as the temperatures plummeted in the FAll. A small amount of frost can be covered with dust and persist long enough to acquire more frost next Fall, perhaps. That way, it's possible that massive amounts of water could be trapped, in tissue thin layers. When they melt, as they apparently do, from time to time, it can undermine the surface topography, leading to landslides that have been photographed in progress, large scale surface collapses that are evident in many, many locations all over the planet, and mysterious "spider" markings, as flowing subsurface water darkens the soil above it. Probably, ice forms under "Saara's Icebox" ever year, and melts as summer waxes.
rock exfoliation on a landscape scale?
In respect to atmospheric dust and the settling of. Do dust storms on Mars decrease temperature due to blocking of sunlight, buffer or increase temps, acting as insulation. My experiences with dust and sand storms on earth is a cooling effect. It was 120f or higher normally (Qatar, 3 miles from the Persian Gulf, humidity was consistently near 100%) , but definitely felt cooler during dust events.
In respect to atmospheric dust and the settling of. Do dust storms on Mars decrease temperature due to blocking of sunlight, buffer or increase temps, acting as insulation. My experiences with dust and sand storms on earth is a cooling effect. It was 120f or higher normally (Qatar, 3 miles from the Persian Gulf, humidity was consistently near 100%) , but definitely felt cooler during dust events.
It ought to -- power levels on Spirit and Opportunity always dropped during low opacity events, and their solar cells generated power in direct proportion to the solar energy reaching them. The sun also heats the air and surface, so it stands to reason there should be cooling. NASA has a record of that sort of thing, of course, and I've probably read it somewhere. But, I don't happen to remember.
It's amazing how much it looks like earth isn't it?
I could see people living on mars some day... even the moon......... And places want to start mining asteroids.. That will be cool... untill someone finds one of these laying around..
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2.....20-d4nb82d.jpg
In space, no one can hear you scream... unless there are necromorphs, then they totally can hear you screaming.. and crying...and calling for your mommy....... (Since not everyone is a fan, dead space is a survival horror game based on a deep space mining ship. It's kind of Lovecraft <just..any of his writings you want..> meets Night of the Living Dead, meets Alien.... So.. Call of the living aliens..)
I could see people living on mars some day... even the moon......... And places want to start mining asteroids.. That will be cool... untill someone finds one of these laying around..
http://fc00.deviantart.net/fs71/f/2.....20-d4nb82d.jpg
In space, no one can hear you scream... unless there are necromorphs, then they totally can hear you screaming.. and crying...and calling for your mommy....... (Since not everyone is a fan, dead space is a survival horror game based on a deep space mining ship. It's kind of Lovecraft <just..any of his writings you want..> meets Night of the Living Dead, meets Alien.... So.. Call of the living aliens..)
If you could get to Mars, you could live there now. Maybe for five whole minutes, but probably not much more of than two of them while conscious. Pick your time of day and the right spot, temperatures are not the problem. A torrid summer day may approach 60 or 70 degrees, but even average equatorial, summer days -- closer to 10 below -- wouldn't kill you very quickly. A good set of winter clothes would be all you need.
It's the lack of breathable air that's the killer. But Sir Edmond Hilary outfitted with oxygen bottles for climbing Everest could almost have survived indefinitely on Mars.
I'd rather we didn't rush t colonizing the Red Planet, though. I want to explore and understand it first. Once the place is contaminated, dug up and remodeled, Mars Before Man is gone forever.
It's the lack of breathable air that's the killer. But Sir Edmond Hilary outfitted with oxygen bottles for climbing Everest could almost have survived indefinitely on Mars.
I'd rather we didn't rush t colonizing the Red Planet, though. I want to explore and understand it first. Once the place is contaminated, dug up and remodeled, Mars Before Man is gone forever.
NASA will not be able to tell. A photo of the same rock that turned up on Sol 170 shows the white substance to be gone or almost all gone, suggesting it is neither a gap nor ten pounds of table salt. The problem is, that whatever that white substance was, it is probably not there now and it is too late for NASA to slowly mosey over and peek.
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