FA+
Shop
I feel Insulted
16 years ago
**EDIT** It's been sent out to who knows how many artists. Jeebus.**
*EDIT II* Hey guys, over it now thanks. Sorry for whining ranting bitching venting to you all!**
I received a message recently from someone asking for some art advice.
At first I was my usual eager self to help someone out. I love trying to help people with art! But as I read through the note, I got angrier and angrier.
The most insulting part of the note is that it is obviously a form letter set out to numerous artists. The person didn't take the time to tailor the note to my body of work at all, nor do I imagine they bothered with anyone else's body of work either. They do not ask for help with coloring, or anatomy, or compositions. No they ask for everything I know about in art and a lot more I don't know. Here is the list!
"Characters
- Dragon
- Fox
-Wolf
- Horses
- Hybrids(?)
- Dinosaurs
- Reptiles
- Aquatics
- And many many more
By the way what programs do you use to create your finished pieces? (I say in almost everything I upload)
2D Drawing and Planning Mechanics
Sorry if this is a bit much, but my aim is to learn from the best and learn and apply what I can. It would be great to hear your own processes!
*** = Very important
- ***Coloring (I especially need help in this category. I’m a good color artist…but no where as fantastic as you are.
- ***Time management
- ***Layer(ing) and working with less layers with very few mistakes or 0 errors
- ***Inking processes (digital or traditional {hand})
- Programs?
- Drawing tools and supplies
- Tablet or mouse controlled
- ***Knowledge of anatomy and how it’s applied to your artwork in all forms
- References of ANY sort
- ***Perspective
- Sexual positions (adult mainly) and the like
o Pin ups
o Yiff
o Mature (but not yiff!)
- ***Different techniques of color and drawing in all aspects
- Special effects
- ***Lighting and light sources (day and night scenes)
- ***Lights and Darks
- Realism
- Composition
- Mood and settings
- ***Sketching process and layout process and others
- ***Genitalia references and anatomy
- ***Background, middleground and foreground techniques
- ***Textures
o Trees
o Rocks
o Fur
o And more…
- Fur, scale, skin techniques
- Facial structures
o Mouth
o Emotions
- Exaggerated anatomy
o How to create exaggerated anatomy correctly (i.e. – macro and hypermacro)
- Folds & clothing
o Normal wear
o Skimpy
o Lingerie
o With big breasts and enlarged genitalia?FFFFFFF
- Body positions without things looking awkward or anatomically incorrect
o Normal
o Yiff
o sexy
- How to start up commissions and pricing
- Coloring techniques and styles
- Atmosphere settings
- Profile views:
o Front
o Back
o Side (especially with massive breasts) (WHAT?!)
o ¾ view
o ¾ back
o ¾ front
o ANY view
- Muscles (visible in completed works)
o I.E. – back structure, legs (back and front), butt, stomach, pelvis, torso, etc (read some fucking Loomis!)"
This makes me angry, and I can't really explain why I have such ire over this. I have worked hard to learn what I know. I read books, I seek help from peers for specific problems, and of course I have my own problem solving skills when it comes to drawing and painting. Then I get this ridiculous message that asks me to spend my time explaining everything I know when they could spend their own time researching and reading the countless free resources online.
Maybe it's late. Maybe I'm kinda sick and crankier than usual. Whatever it is, I am angry about this and will shortly Get Over It®.
If you'd like to teach yourself all kinds of neato stuff, follow this link and rejoice in the free education before you:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sh.....ad.php?t=94571
*EDIT II* Hey guys, over it now thanks. Sorry for whining ranting bitching venting to you all!**
I received a message recently from someone asking for some art advice.
At first I was my usual eager self to help someone out. I love trying to help people with art! But as I read through the note, I got angrier and angrier.
The most insulting part of the note is that it is obviously a form letter set out to numerous artists. The person didn't take the time to tailor the note to my body of work at all, nor do I imagine they bothered with anyone else's body of work either. They do not ask for help with coloring, or anatomy, or compositions. No they ask for everything I know about in art and a lot more I don't know. Here is the list!
"Characters
- Dragon
- Fox
-Wolf
- Horses
- Hybrids(?)
- Dinosaurs
- Reptiles
- Aquatics
- And many many more
By the way what programs do you use to create your finished pieces? (I say in almost everything I upload)
2D Drawing and Planning Mechanics
Sorry if this is a bit much, but my aim is to learn from the best and learn and apply what I can. It would be great to hear your own processes!
*** = Very important
- ***Coloring (I especially need help in this category. I’m a good color artist…but no where as fantastic as you are.
- ***Time management
- ***Layer(ing) and working with less layers with very few mistakes or 0 errors
- ***Inking processes (digital or traditional {hand})
- Programs?
- Drawing tools and supplies
- Tablet or mouse controlled
- ***Knowledge of anatomy and how it’s applied to your artwork in all forms
- References of ANY sort
- ***Perspective
- Sexual positions (adult mainly) and the like
o Pin ups
o Yiff
o Mature (but not yiff!)
- ***Different techniques of color and drawing in all aspects
- Special effects
- ***Lighting and light sources (day and night scenes)
- ***Lights and Darks
- Realism
- Composition
- Mood and settings
- ***Sketching process and layout process and others
- ***Genitalia references and anatomy
- ***Background, middleground and foreground techniques
- ***Textures
o Trees
o Rocks
o Fur
o And more…
- Fur, scale, skin techniques
- Facial structures
o Mouth
o Emotions
- Exaggerated anatomy
o How to create exaggerated anatomy correctly (i.e. – macro and hypermacro)
- Folds & clothing
o Normal wear
o Skimpy
o Lingerie
o With big breasts and enlarged genitalia?FFFFFFF
- Body positions without things looking awkward or anatomically incorrect
o Normal
o Yiff
o sexy
- How to start up commissions and pricing
- Coloring techniques and styles
- Atmosphere settings
- Profile views:
o Front
o Back
o Side (especially with massive breasts) (WHAT?!)
o ¾ view
o ¾ back
o ¾ front
o ANY view
- Muscles (visible in completed works)
o I.E. – back structure, legs (back and front), butt, stomach, pelvis, torso, etc (read some fucking Loomis!)"
This makes me angry, and I can't really explain why I have such ire over this. I have worked hard to learn what I know. I read books, I seek help from peers for specific problems, and of course I have my own problem solving skills when it comes to drawing and painting. Then I get this ridiculous message that asks me to spend my time explaining everything I know when they could spend their own time researching and reading the countless free resources online.
Maybe it's late. Maybe I'm kinda sick and crankier than usual. Whatever it is, I am angry about this and will shortly Get Over It®.
If you'd like to teach yourself all kinds of neato stuff, follow this link and rejoice in the free education before you:
http://www.conceptart.org/forums/sh.....ad.php?t=94571
Okay that's more than ridiculous.. The nerve of that person..
i dont know if i'd be mad, just think it's funny and not reply :P
do something to him like that.
they're asking the impossible, you cant explian stuff that comes with experience.
I'd just ya know, ignore it.
I mean, I'm talking to some really good artists as well quite regularly and when I have the time to draw I sometimes ask them what I might improve in my pictures... But I only do this, when I'm chatting with them, because I think it's more polite doing that personally...
Other than that I ask for advice when I upload my stuff. Because then it's up to anyone if they want to help me or not.
the vib i got form them is they want to draw them may lake the spark for it but it doenst seem obvious how to start or the have stated and are frustrated.
I was seriously frustrated with my own work untio someoen taught me how to make construction lines.
then I was able to blossom thank you
Evenfi hes sendignout formletters maybe ehs hoppingif he puts out enough messages ianbottl4e he might get somthing usefull back
I understand its frustratign when you and I have spent long and hard times suffering for it. But all I did was put him ona path that if he applied himself hec oudl learn do do things simualry to the way I learned. this is by no means a garauntee
Gods, I've been seeing that one a lot lately. It sure as hell isn't the "easy route" if you want it to look good. It's just another tool like any other medium. You have to learn it and get used to how it behaves. Yes, you can do some amazing stuff in it really quickly if you know what you're doing. Just like any other medium. Personally I'm finding real media to be "easier" than digital. Yes digital has an undo button, but that's to make up for the lack of control compared to a pencil or paintbrush.
I fullheartedly agree with you, honnie :3
Oh please oh please oh please
Say stuff like, "Well, first off I'd start by never looking at any reference pictures. They stifle creativity."
PLEAAAAAASE
I am all sweets and butterscotch to everyone else <3
We need a machine .. insert art talent 'here' *zing* that will be $4 please (would you like Gymnastics skill with that order sir?)
come to think of it.. looks for loose change...
I think you've hit the nail on the head. I see this with writing, of course, instead of visual art, but I find that a lot of new writers on FA either don't seem aware that Information is Available Elsewhere, or they don't want to spend the time doing their homework. They want to be spoon-fed tutorials and advice from others in the fandom, when the basics of the craft apply to any kind of writing, furry or not. This might have been excusable twenty years ago, but now that you can find loads of useful websites with a simple Google search, it's really just laziness on their part.
Like you, I'm happy to help with specific things, but when somebody asks a huge blanket question that they could just as easily research themselves, and then come to me with some specific questions... meh.
Knowing this, I wonder if some people feel this way towards drawn artistry as well. I find drawing a lot easier to get into do to the sheer multitude of references. (Everything in life could basically be a reference for drawing.) It's a pretty simple concept of pencil and paper-- but perhaps, I'm biased haha.
Not to discredit your feedback at all. I agree as well; autonomy is a brilliant trait.
Mostly, I'm just smiling to see writers about. :) I am receptive to your talents, although your kind of artistry baffles me, haha!
Are you in the mood for an amiable challenge? If so, I ask for half an hour of your time, and three hundred words on what happened when Mishki the sweet-natured but not-terribly-clever German Shepherd met Fritzl the pure-white chinchilla after the explosion in the molasses factory.
the same thing one of my favorite comic book artists did for me whenI pestered him about techniques >8)
Not every thinks the samw way Imusally hapy to try to help peopel but themainthing is all we as artista can do is poinindirectiosn and give adivce
Ic ouldnt berak downhow I draw cuse its so internalized by now I dont know hwo ot eexspalin it I jsut do it
I dunno ive been inthis fanomalong time and ive grown patient with peopels shenaigans on some levels
Not that I agree with blanket statements, but I can see where they're coming from, the pros around here being so scarce (Especially if your standards are people like Ryan Church, Paul Bonner, Kekai Kotaki, etc) ^^'
/sarcasm.
I'd ask someone I know.
So, he's an idiot.
And you shouldnt let it bother you because there alot of them out there.
That's incredibly insulting. :/
That kid needs to be smacked.
I guess it just comes down to my own experience, the "good" artists I have spoken too, sadly only a very few are willing to help or even offer advice... Of course I do the same to anyone I feel will listen and appreciate it =)
Then again for me I don't really have anything of value to offer as advice XD
Very true, I think I feel my own theory is they are so ABSOFUCKINGLUTLY fucking amazing, like really god like some of them that giving basic tips on structure or even colouring isn't much when they are so good they can actually sell and make money by making DVD's on how to draw xD
But yeah I did notice that, I guess its a lot more competitive in the fandom, or the idea that people advance and get really good and leave all their friends behind...Sadly I have seen this happen far too much, where someone progresses really quickly and all the friends they had before they where "famous" they ignore x3
That indeed is sad when people abandon their friends because of "popularity". And you're right, that does happen a bit too often around here. Haven't figured out why "internet fame" causes such a behavior :(
For me at least at first it was such a barrage of information and confusion, and the more I understand the easier it is to focus and improve on what needs work instead of "everything" n..n
As for internet fame, its a shame really but having it backed up with RL events like cons makes it even worse, you get cliques forming and everything c..c;
Ah well, I am happy that I'm still drawing porn :3
There's also a wealth of information for starting artists nowadays that was nonexistent just five years ago. I've been wanting to learn digital painting for around ten years now and many of the artists I admired were very secretive about their techniques or even how they got started (Or just didn't have time to keep up with emails and notes). Nowadays we have resources like ConceptArt and Gurney Journey to get our feet in the door and help us along.
Too true, but also (At least as far as I have witnessed) many of these folks are still 16 to 21. Some are still living with Mom and Dad, or just getting out and learning what the world is like. I'm sure they'll eventually realize what they're doing is not a good thing :P
I agree n..n
These are very general statements of course, but having observed from both 'sides' I do see that trend. I think the attitude (and I suppose, underlying intent) in asking makes a huge difference.
When I refer to the fandom or industry, I guess I am mainly referring to hobbyists versus professionals (Or those content with personal commissions in communities like here on FA as opposed to a concept artist for Pixar or something).
From my own experience, I can email someone like Katey Hargrove or Kekai Kotaki and ask them how they get a particular lighting technique, or how they get their final polish on their paintings, and when they have time, they're willing to give me pointers, wheras I've spoken with artists here on FA or conventions like AC and FC with similar questions, and if I get a response at all, it's either to change the subject or a polite "That's my secret; Go learn to do it yourself as I did". The intent is the same. I like to see how different artists do things as I learn and develop my own system for creating.
I have never personally come across an artist who would not share information. I try to be as helpful as I can, I don't hide anything. If someone takes the time to write me and asks me for help, I give my time back. I write tutorials (I wish I could share the magazine work here!!), I give art panels at cons, when I have time I redline and critique and offer crappy free online classes.
This doesn't make me better than anyone else, ever! I know my talent is what it is and I am nothing compared to so may others, such as the greats as you mention, plus my own favourites!
This brings me back to me spending a lot of time learning things on my own. I will point anyone who asks to exactly where I am learning from and why I'm doing this or that. But it's fair to ask someone to take their time and figure thing out on their own too. There is no magic Make my art better!
I dunno! I think no matter what I say, it will come across as arrogant. It's hard to get words to come across right on the internet, and things get twisted.
If anything, thank you!
My own work is far from amazing, but I'm still willing to share what I learn. I figure if these awesome artists working on games and movies have nothing to hide, then neither should I :P
I think it's just a way to gain the attention of the artists this person considers to be more popular. The fact that it's generic and unpersonal insults most people that got it, because it just does not show the appreciation that the person is talking about.
I'm sick of people who think they can learn from others what those others had to teach themselves through years of experimenting (or through having the knowledge shoved up their asses themselves). It's a cheap shot, trying to be lazy and not wanting to deal with the actual learning process behind it and it just never works.
Artistic skill is developed through experience =)
The person who wrote the note is truly an ignorant one. Perhaps they will rethink their prerogatives when no one responds to their message.
Yes, one would hope most sexual positions were adult
"Use Google, asshole."
That is what you should tell the guy!
Except that the guy sounds like hes just trying to take a big fat shortcut...that wont work XD
I didn't actually read much of it since I'm not an artist and couldn't help anyway so I didn't catch on to it being so impersonal.
Anyway another insult to all of you actually artist out there is that he isn't even stopping to really look at your work or anything or he would of known all the stuff I had posted was stuff I commissioned.
The first give away being that there's a clear difference in style as well as skill level in all the stuff I have posted.
Next is the fact that I give credit and links to the artist so everyone knows who made it and where to find them.
And lastly I say right in my profile that I'm not an artist and all the art that I post is stuff I've commissioned.
If he really gave a crap about peoples work and wanted to learn from them you'd think he'd at least look through their gallerys first as well as reading some of what they have to say before contacting them.
I can see how it can be insulting because it's not personalized at all, and is way too much. He's pretty much saying "HEY I CAN'T DRAW ANYTHING, TEACH ME HOW 8D" Which.... asking for help isn't nessisarily a bad thing. There are just some things that you have to learn on your own. I give him the props for at least having the balls to send that long list of stuff out to everyone, because asking other artists for help can be quite intimidating.
But I feel that he just might have screwed it up for the rest of us that one day DO have some questions or need advice from these popular artists like yourself. It's hard enough to ask most artist to take their time to teach or explain how they do something to you. That's why I think the artists that answer questions and show you first hand on livestreams are very helpful.
This message however, probably messed up that chance for a lot of new artists like myself. -sighs-
Whoever this is has some nerve, and hopefully they get some realistic responses.
I agree. This fellow needs to take some art classes, not mooch for tips off of other artists.
But I think there's a twist here: It FEELS like it's someone who does not communicate well with people (for whatever reason) and it also feels like someone who's primary language is not English. Just by the way the PM is written, it sounds "not quite right," any idiomatic phrases sound like the person has a textbook grasp of the English language, not a familial one. Add the fact that in his culture, this MAY be an acceptable way of asking for help. Obviously though, it does not make it right or acceptable in our culture.
Hear me out: I have had many students who viewed "teachers" on a lower caste than themselves, due to cultural differences. Again, it's frustrating as hell and to us, totally ignorant, but in their society that's how it's done. On DA I used to get PM's like this (albeit not quite so detailed or elaborate). I would respond just like many here: There are many places to get drawing help.
Your response to get angry is fully justifiable. As is everyone else's response here, too. Given your present state of mind, physical state, holidays coming up, etc., I understand your feelings. I I may suggest - the best way to answer things like this would be to explain a). I cannot fulfill a list this big, b). thank you for writing to me, c). you need to see if there are art classes available to you because what you seek is a LIFELONG process, something no one can teach you here on the internet or in an instant. Sincerely, Vantid.
Of course you can always use the delete key or tell him to f*ck off. But I know that's not you. lol
Don't let it get you down! Smile and hope that he realizes his error.
One final thing: Something
As always,
Dineegla
and feel better ^^
But rather than asking for advice, I'm taking a more pracitical route, and offering people to draw. (As opposed to waiting for non-existant requests. >.>) I have some education from Art course in High School, and I've read a few books on anatomy and perspective, it's just a matter of utilising what I should know. :P
Don't feel bad for feeling angry, in all fairness to you it's a pretty obnoxious letter.
Masturbate in a paint bucket
It's the best advice ever XD
Maybe this could become a new meme: "my fu**ed up art priorities"!
...It's just rude and unfair.
MY ANSWER TO THEM AND ANYONE ELSE LIKE THEM:
PRACTICE
PRACTICE PRACTICE PRACTICE and PRACTICE SOME MOAR.
I can kinda sympathise--I wanted to smash my guitar over the head of this utter dumbass who wrote in to Popular Mechanics (Popular Mechanics! Not any of dozens of musician-oriented periodicals, fucking Popular Mechanics!) asking if there was an easier version of AutoTune available.
I just think there are some people who genuinely cannot comprehend what talent means, or how skills are acquired.
http://aviary.com/bizblog/posts/how.....hing-in-1-step
I feel like responding "I have paid 30 grand a year for four years for art school. Go do that and THEN come talk to me" >(
I'm glad I'm not the only one feeling angry over this, WTH.
No idea what to make of the fact that so many people have gotten this email-- but we'll see what happens next.
i've never considered myself much of a judge of character so i won't attempt to in this. only to second the original thought of questioning the senders sincerity and intent.
That's kind of rude to tell someone to chill out when they've basically been systematically insulted.
This is hilarious, girl <3 We should all reply with bad advice.
"Make your eyes huge!"
"Butts are basically just big circles."
Seriously. It's great when people share their knowledge, but in order for those back-and-forth learning sessions to happen everyone needs to do their own work. There is no easy answer, there is no magic formula. Like everything else in the world, if they don't practice, they're not going to become a decent artist. And spamming other artists is going to put them on everyone's shit list, not get them good help.
Angrysaaaaauuuuuuuce. D8<<
...I didn't even get one and am offended already. For the unlove of piss, how far are people willing to go to be idiots? -.-
I would rather get this than a million notes asking me if I want to yiff
Stop whining
I'm far far away for being a great artist like you but I think that I know what you feel. I'm not the best in Art but I have the bad tendance for being...to kind...
I can't say the number of people who send me stupid mails about art, even people who wants to know how many pixels my brush was to do this or that lines
Most of them are young 12-14-18... (depend of the maturity, but sometimes even 20 years old people are not adult at all)
I have realised that there is a big problem with very young people, I think it's probably the same in all countries, they want ALLLLL AND IMMEDIATLY.
I have to learn them how to draw this and that (per mails of course) perfectly and immediatly!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
It's happened me twice that when I say(politely) "no it's enough" They started insulting me!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I can't understand those people, it's painfull for us, we have working hard, studying alone, growing up without the internet to help us, and they believe that in few seconds they can tunrned into the greatest artist of the world....
I think that the mail you get it's the perfect and most terryfiyng illustration of this phenomem...
I think we have no choice but ignore those kind of people, they are many, and they won't understand you EVER, cuz they think they know how it works better than everyone else :)
Hope my roman is comprehensive XDDDDDD I can't wrote english probably, don't worry about those kind of people and remember that even if they still exist, there will be people for loving your art and people who know how hard it is to draw :)