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Artist Beware: Untrustworthy and Unprofessional artist
2 months ago
General
Please take a moment to read this. Especially if you're an artist drawing for me
I've recently had the misfortune of interacting with an artist who should not be trusted.
I won an auction.
My bid on this auction was quietly deleted without my knowledge after I won.
I'd mentioned I wished to postpone payment until we'd hashed out the changes I'd like to see. I won the bid at less than half of their maximum bid amount, which would include additional content for the adopt in question.
They agreed to all of this, and agreed to not accept payment until all agreements were met and all the edits were as I wanted them.
Less than 15 hours after this correspondence, the artist contacts me, saying they have 'accepted a commission', thus having the work flow change and they'll no longer be willing to accept changes or additions of any kind to the adopt.
They shave $10 off of the price and say I can either accept it as it is, in the state it's in, or they'll give it to the next bidder(who is now set as the ACTUAL winner cause they, again, silently deleted my bid for no apparent reason)
I accept neither of these options, cause the whole reason why I bid at all was because I'd wanted changes made.
They claim since I didn't bid the full $500 they were not under any obligation to complete this, despite yes, having said they would less than a day prior as I was bidding on the adopt.
Had I known this'd be an issue I could've easily simply bid the full $500, but I didn't want to double bid and risk issues, so I left it at the $240 winning bid and figured they of course wouldn't mind if I wanted to more than double the actual winning bid to get the extra content they offered in the adopt text both on the auction site and on FA.
They refused to postpone, or work with me in any way, they simply strong-armed the fact they wouldn't be doing it and that's the end of it.
I claimed since it wouldn't work out and I love the design, I'd use that character as inspiration, changing it enough to make it my own, and have my own design of similar species, but different markings/colors etc.
I then left, since they'd made it clear nothing I could say or do would change their mind.
They then posted a submission here on FA, complete with my name and a direct screenshot, with all information from the interaction omitted except for the message where I claim I'll just figure things out on my own on my end then, claiming I was plagiarizing and stealing content for 'modifying' it.
This was blatantly untrue, and was giving people a completely warped and fundamentally incorrect idea of how things transpired. I reported the submission to FA and they promptly agreed with my side of things and had the submission taken down immediately. If warnings or suspensions were included I'm not aware of them as I'm not privy to that information.
They have since edited the text on the submission itself, adding a 'warning' about this alleged plagiarism I plan on doing, in an effort to spread defamation and falsehoods about me.
All of this because they were unwilling to uphold their side of the deal and went back on their word. They were unprofessional, rude, and obnoxious, and any attempts at rectifying the situation, or coming to a peaceful resolution in private, has been met with complete silence.
So with no other way to plead my case? I'll do this properly, the ToS abiding way. I will mention no names publicly, but if you'd like to know who this artist is so you can avoid them in the future? Everyone is welcome to note me. I will provide their name and if preferred? Any proof needed that what I say is true.
Apologies for the long-winded message! I hope everyone have a wonderful, merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa and a Happy New Year!
I won an auction.
My bid on this auction was quietly deleted without my knowledge after I won.
I'd mentioned I wished to postpone payment until we'd hashed out the changes I'd like to see. I won the bid at less than half of their maximum bid amount, which would include additional content for the adopt in question.
They agreed to all of this, and agreed to not accept payment until all agreements were met and all the edits were as I wanted them.
Less than 15 hours after this correspondence, the artist contacts me, saying they have 'accepted a commission', thus having the work flow change and they'll no longer be willing to accept changes or additions of any kind to the adopt.
They shave $10 off of the price and say I can either accept it as it is, in the state it's in, or they'll give it to the next bidder(who is now set as the ACTUAL winner cause they, again, silently deleted my bid for no apparent reason)
I accept neither of these options, cause the whole reason why I bid at all was because I'd wanted changes made.
They claim since I didn't bid the full $500 they were not under any obligation to complete this, despite yes, having said they would less than a day prior as I was bidding on the adopt.
Had I known this'd be an issue I could've easily simply bid the full $500, but I didn't want to double bid and risk issues, so I left it at the $240 winning bid and figured they of course wouldn't mind if I wanted to more than double the actual winning bid to get the extra content they offered in the adopt text both on the auction site and on FA.
They refused to postpone, or work with me in any way, they simply strong-armed the fact they wouldn't be doing it and that's the end of it.
I claimed since it wouldn't work out and I love the design, I'd use that character as inspiration, changing it enough to make it my own, and have my own design of similar species, but different markings/colors etc.
I then left, since they'd made it clear nothing I could say or do would change their mind.
They then posted a submission here on FA, complete with my name and a direct screenshot, with all information from the interaction omitted except for the message where I claim I'll just figure things out on my own on my end then, claiming I was plagiarizing and stealing content for 'modifying' it.
This was blatantly untrue, and was giving people a completely warped and fundamentally incorrect idea of how things transpired. I reported the submission to FA and they promptly agreed with my side of things and had the submission taken down immediately. If warnings or suspensions were included I'm not aware of them as I'm not privy to that information.
They have since edited the text on the submission itself, adding a 'warning' about this alleged plagiarism I plan on doing, in an effort to spread defamation and falsehoods about me.
All of this because they were unwilling to uphold their side of the deal and went back on their word. They were unprofessional, rude, and obnoxious, and any attempts at rectifying the situation, or coming to a peaceful resolution in private, has been met with complete silence.
So with no other way to plead my case? I'll do this properly, the ToS abiding way. I will mention no names publicly, but if you'd like to know who this artist is so you can avoid them in the future? Everyone is welcome to note me. I will provide their name and if preferred? Any proof needed that what I say is true.
Apologies for the long-winded message! I hope everyone have a wonderful, merry Christmas/Hanukkah/Kwanzaa and a Happy New Year!
I've always been afraid of something like this, I apologize. T__T
But the fact is, until money changes hands there is no order to speak of, and no transaction was actually made. moderation removing the offending post from the other party was simply them taking down a 'call out post' since they mentioned you by name, not necessarily that they 100% took your side on the whole thing.
Honestly this looks like a yikes on both sides. Sorry you went through that but until money is paid for an actual piece no artist is obligated to agree to or do anything and much like consent and tea, it is okay to change one's mind at any point, and i get that it's frustrating but it kinda comes off bad on both sides, ngl.
When you set up an auction, you're pledging the item or service you're auctioning, as already sold for the price range you're accepting, you're just letting the buyers determine what they wanna pay for it.
This means auctions are by definition high risk/high reward; you might end up selling it for less than you'd liked, but you might also end up getting radically more than you expected if there are collectors/eager bidders in the pack.
When a bid is finalized, this contract is legally binding and can, and will, absolutely incur penalties as a result. Just cause money doesn't change hands? Doesn't mean the contract isn't as binding to the seller as it is to the buyer. When the seller shook hands with the seller, this is binding, and I have visual proof in the form of logs and emails proving this handshake to have happened.
This means for all intents and purposes? Thanks to my bid winning, VelvetVeil was every bit as contractually bound to selling me that OC, as I was to buying it.
The fact money didn't pass hands is irrelevant in bid wins; the fact remains she breached contract cause she fell back on her word in the listing she held the auction on. Simply 'refusing' cause it didn't go according to plan, doesn't invalidate my claim just cause I didn't pay yet. Remember, I didn't pay cause the finer details were still being hashed out. They agreed with this postponing of payment, as I'm more than ready to prove to you, which they omitted from their slander submission.
Had they upheld their word as they'd laid it out in their auction, I'd absolutely have paid, but since they didn't uphold the contract the way we'd shook hands on it? I was no longer under any obligation to pay for anything. Besides, given they just went from "Absolutely!" to "actually never mind" I didn't exactly feel comfortable sending them money at all in case they 'changed their mind' again and just didn't wanna sell her to me at all. What guarantee do I have she'll send me money back when she can't use Paypal cause she's in Russia? None. My trust in her had been irrevocably shaken and I plain old didn't feel comfortable sending this much money to her when I had no guarantee she'd uphold her end of the agreement, considering she'd already broken the agreement once before.
So I respectfully refute your 'yikes' on my part. I wasn't only gonna pay her $240, I was gonna pay her $500. She'd said yes to this, she held the auction, and I won the bid. For all intents and purposes I had won the rights to buy that OC, however that buying was gonna go down, was entirely up to her and I. She didn't put it anywhere that I wouldn't be able to request these things, and she subsequently agreed to them prior to my starting the bid. I bid because of this agreement, which she then broke afterwards. This is unacceptable and unprofessional, and breaks any trust I had in the buyer.
"the seller can refuse to sell up until the completion of the sale (Sold!) After that, a buyer could force a transfer. However, as we’ve noted, the seller could not do the same."
"Here's why I'm not wrong."
"Eh, agree to disagree"
......WHAT!?
Essentially, the artist in question has zero regard for Auctions, and even if you bid on one of their auctions and win? This does not ensure you actually get to buy whatever it was you won. They do not honor the rules/laws of digital auctions. Lawfully speaking? The moment that auction ended with my bid being the highest, they were contractually bound to sell that OC to me. When they refused, for any reason whatsoever, not to sell it to me under the agreement we'd established prior to bidding, whilst I was wholly ready and eager to pay? They broke the contractual agreement when they put it up for auction.
Additionally, when they resold the OC behind my back, when I was *not* forfeiting the winning bid and I still very much intended to keep the OC? They essentially resold a stolen character.
I looked all of these laws up, and the case is clear: This artist stole an OC I legally held the right to purchase from them, thereby ignoring the auction, so for all intents and purposes? There's no reason for them to hold auctions to begin with, they may as well sell them for a flat price first-come-first-serve, cause no matter if you win or not? There's no guarantee you'll actually get it.
Absolutely atrocious behavior. Unprofessional and underhanded. Some people I've brought this up to have even gone as far as unanimously agreeing the artist is engaging in scam-like behavior and will be sharing this info elsewhere outside of FA to ensure their infamous name precedes them.
I highly recommend against conducting business with them, and if you absolutely MUST do so? Keep your money close to your chest and make sure all your i's are dotted and all your T's are crossed before you send them any money, and make sure you insist on getting all files up front before they take payment so they can't 'suddenly change their mind'.
Also be aware they do not use Paypal, as they're based in Russia and are unable to do so! So if you were to send them money and they changed their mind suddenly after you paid? The odds of you getting a refund are pretty slim. Almost none.
People are condemning me for not paying up front, as apparently to them, only when money pass hands in an auction, are you bound to get the character. This is blatantly untrue and NOT how auctions work.
Trust me, I'm still carrying the chains of an artist that has wronged me as well. I have thought many petty things like: "put them on blast, let the whole world know, force them into a Discord and prove their falsehoods by posting the entire conversation verbatim, catch them in their lies, remove their watermark from their work; they're scum anyways..." But honestly...what's the point of it? It's cathartic really to let it go. Remember they are bad person, use the tools the site provides so that you never have to interact with them again, and move on. It really is what's best for you
And if this person is a mentor or important figure to you? Consider it a "never meet your heroes" moment. It's cliche but it happens...unfortunately