Montroversy Topic: People Scared Of Nuclear Power Are Stupid
15 years ago
General
Okay, well, actually they're not. But I got your attention, didn't I?
Actually, people who are scared of nuclear power are victims of their brains' own faulty pattern-recognizing software, plus a pervasive, wildly-inaccurate perception of its dangers.
This train of thought sprung from Japan recently getting hit by an 8.9 earthquake, plus a thirty-foot high tsunami wave, which pretty much fucked their shit up. I'm sad that it happened, obviously, but at the same time I'm glad to see that they definitely anticipated the hell out of an event like this. Plenty of people had early warning, rescue workers seem to be efficiently and thoroughly doing their job, and the country's even showing humility by accepting aid from their rivals China and South Korea. We can never entirely prevent natural disasters, but Japan is looking like a shining example of how to deal with them before, during and afterwards.
But that's not what I wanted to talk about. What I wanted to talk about is Japan's NUCLEAR EMERGENCY!!! Several of Japan's NUCLEAR REACTORS were DAMAGED in the CATASTROPHIC DISASTER and might EXPLODE, EXPOSING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO DEADLY RADIATION!!!!!!
Or so the news would have you believe.
I used to be on the 'nuclear energy is bad' bandwagon too. But thanks in large part to an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit, I began putting this idea under the Magnifying Glass Of Skepticism.
The Japan earthquake has led to such an outrageous amount of blatant, irresponsible fearmongering on behalf of the television news and newspapers that I am genuinely appalled. In today's paper I saw a story about "JAPAN STILL ON EDGE AFTER NUKE BLAST". How's that for an emotionally-loaded headline? The article goes on to paint nothing but worst case scenarios. Gee, do you think the majority of Japanese are still on edge because of something that MIGHT happen, or the gigantic fucking natural disaster that actually DID just happen!?
This has been the pattern so far: the news talks about the earthquake/tsunami victims for a while, but then spends just as much time on 'nuclear concerns'. The reason why is simple: Ratings. Spending time reporting on the real tragedy and the real victims is depressing. People don't want to watch what depresses them. But fear? Fear keeps people riveted to their seats! It doesn't matter whether it's real or not. All that matters is how the story is slanted. The news could just as easily have framed this as a story about how amazing it is that these older nuclear plants had managed to withstand the damage they did. Instead, it's all about how they just might explode and kill everyone at any minute.
I saw an American reporter interviewing Japanese citizens, standing in the rubble of their former city, and asking them in the most pathetically leading way, "Are you scared of what might happen with the nuclear plants?" Um, here's a newsflash: it's immoral to use victims of a real tragedy to perpetuate a story about a mostly-imaginary one.
Yes, imaginary. Most of the reporting on the nuclear plants is not about what HAS happened, but what COULD happen. Instead of focusing on the reality of the situation, they are speculating wildly on hypotheticals. This is not news. News is supposed to be objective reporting. What they're doing is tabloid bullshit.
It's estimated that ten thousand people died in the earthquake and ensuing tsunami. TEN THOUSAND. Keep that number in mind. (Though, considering the size of the disaster, it's a testament to Japan's preparedness that the death toll is so comparatively low.)
So what about these nuclear explosions the news won't shut up about? How many have they killed? So far, I can't find any reports that confirm it killed anyone. Even if it did, the few times I've heard it mentioned, the estimates were in single digits.
Oh, but what about all the POTENTIAL VICTIMS if the nuke plants all blow up!?
Well for starters, if you actually listen closely to the newscasts, you'll soon realize that, even though they are framing the story as a horrifying disaster just waiting to happen, everything they're actually saying points to the opposite being true. One of their experts calmly said that these plants were built in the 70s and have managed to withstand 100 times the damage they were rated for.
Lemme make sure you heard that correctly: FORTY YEAR OLD NUCLEAR PLANTS HAVE WITHSTOOD ONE HUNDRED TIMES THE DAMAGE THEY WERE EXPECTED TO BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND!!!
One expert tonight was asked point-blank what the worst case scenario is. He said that, since the areas it would affect have been evacuated already, if there is a meltdown and it does release radiation, they're expecting an elevated cancer risk. That is a hell of a lot of 'if's. This is not an end-of-the-world type worst case scenario. In fact, it pales in comparison to the actual earthquake/tsunami devastation so much as to be negligible.
But what about the radiation? Some of it has leaked! They said it could affect hundreds of people!!!
Well, on another newscast, a doctor said that Japan's emergency responders were following exactly the procedure they should be, and that, of the 200 people one team tested, 22 showed signs of radiation, and three of them were serious cases.
THREE.
Oh, but here's the kicker: What do they do if someone is contaminated? They give them a shower. Which the doctor said would remove 90% of the contamination then and there.
If you can get rid of ninety percent of a 'deadly threat' by just SHOWERING, then I don't think it's something anyone should really be afraid of.
But I may be wrong. The news has said that six plants are in varying states of trouble, and that there are three which may face a meltdown.
Of course, you have to remember that people are WORKING THEIR ASSES OFF right now to prevent this. People who presumably know what they're doing. Basically, the news is acting as if everyone in Japan is just standing around biting their nails in worried anticipation. No. This is a country that has demonstrated aptly that they are doing a damn good job of getting this whole mess under control. Hell, the Japanese as a culture are stereotyped by their strong commitment to cooperation! I'm not saying there won't be ANY nuclear-related problems in the coming days, but to act as if it's an imminent calamity is an insult to the smart, capable people working to prevent just that.
To be afraid of nuclear power is to assume that everyone who works in a nuclear plant is Homer Simpson. And bizarrely, that's kind of true. The Simpsons has unwittingly contributed to the public perception that nuclear plants are dangerous and ineptly run and could blow at any minute. People are bad at distinguishing cartoons from reality.
But wait, you say! What about Three Mile Island! That was a nuclear plant on American soil that had a freakin' core meltdown! That proves they're unsafe!
Well, no. It actually proves the opposite. You see, accidents will always happen. But there are people whose jobs it is to anticipate and prepare for these accidents. In the case of Three Mile Island, the public judged the plant for having an accident, and not for the fact that it's results were almost completely contained. No one died because of Three Mile Island. Did you even know that? NO ONE DIED!! I can't even find reports of any injuries! And while some people claim that unborn babies and wildlife were affected (which is certainly possible), the official conclusion was that the amount of radiation anyone in the affected area received was literally comparable to a chest X-ray. The core went into meltdown and yet only an incredibly minor amount of damage resulted. I'd call that a success story instead of a horror story.
But what about CHERNOBYL? The biggest, most horrifying nuclear accident of all!
Well, sorry to burst your bubble again, but you can't blame nuclear energy itself for that disaster. It was entirely the result of human incompetence. This was a plant that was already lacking in safety measures (Probably to save money; we are talking about Cold War Russia, remember), and the people running it decided to try an insanely irresponsible experiment with one of the reactors. This was the equivalent of saying, "Hey guys! I'm gonna hold this gun really close to my head and fire it, and see if it'll have any beneficial effects!" Only instead of putting it 'really close', you put it right in your mouth.
Fifty-seven people died in the explosion that followed, and the resulting fallout led to about 4,000 cases of cancer, along with God knows how many other illnesses and birth defects.
Chernobyl was a horrific event. It never should have happened. But the technology was not the cause. People using the technology incorrectly was.
But what if there is a nuclear meltdown in Japan and the radiation reaches America!?
...
Some people are actually afraid of this. Some people are actually worried that lethal levels of radiation might reach us across FIVE THOUSAND FUCKING MILES OF OCEAN. Some people are really fucking dumb.
There are hundreds of nuclear plants around America and I've never heard a peep about any of them. I'm not saying they're perfectly clean and safe, because any corporation is going to cut corners and pollute if it can save money by doing so. But the nuclear industry is not run by retards. They KNOW how bad a reputation nuclear energy has. So it's in their best interests to keep their plants as safe as they possibly can. They know that the slightest bad press will cost them shitloads of money. The Japan explosions are going to hurt them like hell anyway, and it's not even their fault! In reality, scientists designing nuclear energy plants have engineered failsafes like you wouldn't believe. A Chernobyl type disaster is literally no longer possible with the new kinds of reactors designed today. And for transporting nuclear waste, they have designed containers that can literally be hit by a high-speed train and not break! Instead of putting a moratorium on all nuclear energy, a far more sensible idea is to replace older plants and equipment (which are still mostly safe) with newer technology (which is even saferer).
Folks, you have to realize that there are things all around us way, way, WAY more dangerous to us than nuclear energy.
Cars?
Alcohol?
Or how about coal? That's right; the fuel we're NOT afraid of. Despite the fact that outdated coal plants cause so much pollution that scientists say they may shorten as many as 24,000 lives a year (22,000 of which could be prevented) by causing lung cancer. I don't even know how many coal miners die every year, but considering the recent stories about mine collapses and trapped miners all around the world, you know there has to be more incidents than just the ones that make it to the national news.
Do I even have to mention oil? Do I even have to mention BP?
It's simply human nature to be more emotionally affected by something bad that happens all at once, as opposed to something bad that happens gradually. We care more about the 3000 people who died in one morning on Sept. 11th than we do the 435,000 who died that same year from tobacco-related illness. Since I've made you aware of this little quirk of our brains, you have no excuse for not compensating for it anymore. It's understandable how an accident like Chernobyl could taint a generation's perception of nuclear power. But it happened in 1986. Things have changed since then and so should we.
Nuclear energy is not 100% safe and it never will be. But it's better than what we currently have. It's unfair to hold nuclear energy to an impossible standard because the public has a grossly inaccurate perception of it. Any attempt we make at gathering energy will have some drawbacks. I'm sure that there have been accidents involving solar energy and wind energy too. We should judge something not on whether any accidents ever happen, but on how often those accidents happen, how many people are affected, and what happens after they occur. In all those categories, nuclear energy has a better track record than coal or oil.
If you believe I'm wrong, show me statistics. Not what you 'feel' to be true.
Right now, our attitude is to fear something based on perception, while accepting something which is actually far, far deadlier to us, simply because it has a better reputation and we're used to it.
I would rather trust facts than perception.
Two last little points:
1) Nuclear energy and nuclear weapons are two different things. Feel free to be scared shitless of nuclear bombs all you want. That makes sense.
2) If you're afraid to use a microwave because it uses radiation, then please hit yourself in the head as hard as you possibly can with a science textbook.
EDIT: This is some pants-shittingly awesome video. Never have I seen such insane overkill trying to destroy something!
EDIT: Today on the news they said that a fourth reactor is having problems and might be leaking dangerous levels of radiation. Okay, fair enough, at least that's a real threat. Then the anchorwoman says, 'The Japanese might be facing an even worse disaster than what's already happened!' NO, NO, NO, YOU MINDLESS CUNT! Even if the goddamn thing blew up it still couldn't be worse than the fucking tsunami damage, you ratings-craving hogbitch!! <eternal facepalm>
Actually, people who are scared of nuclear power are victims of their brains' own faulty pattern-recognizing software, plus a pervasive, wildly-inaccurate perception of its dangers.
This train of thought sprung from Japan recently getting hit by an 8.9 earthquake, plus a thirty-foot high tsunami wave, which pretty much fucked their shit up. I'm sad that it happened, obviously, but at the same time I'm glad to see that they definitely anticipated the hell out of an event like this. Plenty of people had early warning, rescue workers seem to be efficiently and thoroughly doing their job, and the country's even showing humility by accepting aid from their rivals China and South Korea. We can never entirely prevent natural disasters, but Japan is looking like a shining example of how to deal with them before, during and afterwards.
But that's not what I wanted to talk about. What I wanted to talk about is Japan's NUCLEAR EMERGENCY!!! Several of Japan's NUCLEAR REACTORS were DAMAGED in the CATASTROPHIC DISASTER and might EXPLODE, EXPOSING THOUSANDS OF PEOPLE TO DEADLY RADIATION!!!!!!
Or so the news would have you believe.
I used to be on the 'nuclear energy is bad' bandwagon too. But thanks in large part to an episode of Penn & Teller's Bullshit, I began putting this idea under the Magnifying Glass Of Skepticism.
The Japan earthquake has led to such an outrageous amount of blatant, irresponsible fearmongering on behalf of the television news and newspapers that I am genuinely appalled. In today's paper I saw a story about "JAPAN STILL ON EDGE AFTER NUKE BLAST". How's that for an emotionally-loaded headline? The article goes on to paint nothing but worst case scenarios. Gee, do you think the majority of Japanese are still on edge because of something that MIGHT happen, or the gigantic fucking natural disaster that actually DID just happen!?
This has been the pattern so far: the news talks about the earthquake/tsunami victims for a while, but then spends just as much time on 'nuclear concerns'. The reason why is simple: Ratings. Spending time reporting on the real tragedy and the real victims is depressing. People don't want to watch what depresses them. But fear? Fear keeps people riveted to their seats! It doesn't matter whether it's real or not. All that matters is how the story is slanted. The news could just as easily have framed this as a story about how amazing it is that these older nuclear plants had managed to withstand the damage they did. Instead, it's all about how they just might explode and kill everyone at any minute.
I saw an American reporter interviewing Japanese citizens, standing in the rubble of their former city, and asking them in the most pathetically leading way, "Are you scared of what might happen with the nuclear plants?" Um, here's a newsflash: it's immoral to use victims of a real tragedy to perpetuate a story about a mostly-imaginary one.
Yes, imaginary. Most of the reporting on the nuclear plants is not about what HAS happened, but what COULD happen. Instead of focusing on the reality of the situation, they are speculating wildly on hypotheticals. This is not news. News is supposed to be objective reporting. What they're doing is tabloid bullshit.
It's estimated that ten thousand people died in the earthquake and ensuing tsunami. TEN THOUSAND. Keep that number in mind. (Though, considering the size of the disaster, it's a testament to Japan's preparedness that the death toll is so comparatively low.)
So what about these nuclear explosions the news won't shut up about? How many have they killed? So far, I can't find any reports that confirm it killed anyone. Even if it did, the few times I've heard it mentioned, the estimates were in single digits.
Oh, but what about all the POTENTIAL VICTIMS if the nuke plants all blow up!?
Well for starters, if you actually listen closely to the newscasts, you'll soon realize that, even though they are framing the story as a horrifying disaster just waiting to happen, everything they're actually saying points to the opposite being true. One of their experts calmly said that these plants were built in the 70s and have managed to withstand 100 times the damage they were rated for.
Lemme make sure you heard that correctly: FORTY YEAR OLD NUCLEAR PLANTS HAVE WITHSTOOD ONE HUNDRED TIMES THE DAMAGE THEY WERE EXPECTED TO BE ABLE TO WITHSTAND!!!
One expert tonight was asked point-blank what the worst case scenario is. He said that, since the areas it would affect have been evacuated already, if there is a meltdown and it does release radiation, they're expecting an elevated cancer risk. That is a hell of a lot of 'if's. This is not an end-of-the-world type worst case scenario. In fact, it pales in comparison to the actual earthquake/tsunami devastation so much as to be negligible.
But what about the radiation? Some of it has leaked! They said it could affect hundreds of people!!!
Well, on another newscast, a doctor said that Japan's emergency responders were following exactly the procedure they should be, and that, of the 200 people one team tested, 22 showed signs of radiation, and three of them were serious cases.
THREE.
Oh, but here's the kicker: What do they do if someone is contaminated? They give them a shower. Which the doctor said would remove 90% of the contamination then and there.
If you can get rid of ninety percent of a 'deadly threat' by just SHOWERING, then I don't think it's something anyone should really be afraid of.
But I may be wrong. The news has said that six plants are in varying states of trouble, and that there are three which may face a meltdown.
Of course, you have to remember that people are WORKING THEIR ASSES OFF right now to prevent this. People who presumably know what they're doing. Basically, the news is acting as if everyone in Japan is just standing around biting their nails in worried anticipation. No. This is a country that has demonstrated aptly that they are doing a damn good job of getting this whole mess under control. Hell, the Japanese as a culture are stereotyped by their strong commitment to cooperation! I'm not saying there won't be ANY nuclear-related problems in the coming days, but to act as if it's an imminent calamity is an insult to the smart, capable people working to prevent just that.
To be afraid of nuclear power is to assume that everyone who works in a nuclear plant is Homer Simpson. And bizarrely, that's kind of true. The Simpsons has unwittingly contributed to the public perception that nuclear plants are dangerous and ineptly run and could blow at any minute. People are bad at distinguishing cartoons from reality.
But wait, you say! What about Three Mile Island! That was a nuclear plant on American soil that had a freakin' core meltdown! That proves they're unsafe!
Well, no. It actually proves the opposite. You see, accidents will always happen. But there are people whose jobs it is to anticipate and prepare for these accidents. In the case of Three Mile Island, the public judged the plant for having an accident, and not for the fact that it's results were almost completely contained. No one died because of Three Mile Island. Did you even know that? NO ONE DIED!! I can't even find reports of any injuries! And while some people claim that unborn babies and wildlife were affected (which is certainly possible), the official conclusion was that the amount of radiation anyone in the affected area received was literally comparable to a chest X-ray. The core went into meltdown and yet only an incredibly minor amount of damage resulted. I'd call that a success story instead of a horror story.
But what about CHERNOBYL? The biggest, most horrifying nuclear accident of all!
Well, sorry to burst your bubble again, but you can't blame nuclear energy itself for that disaster. It was entirely the result of human incompetence. This was a plant that was already lacking in safety measures (Probably to save money; we are talking about Cold War Russia, remember), and the people running it decided to try an insanely irresponsible experiment with one of the reactors. This was the equivalent of saying, "Hey guys! I'm gonna hold this gun really close to my head and fire it, and see if it'll have any beneficial effects!" Only instead of putting it 'really close', you put it right in your mouth.
Fifty-seven people died in the explosion that followed, and the resulting fallout led to about 4,000 cases of cancer, along with God knows how many other illnesses and birth defects.
Chernobyl was a horrific event. It never should have happened. But the technology was not the cause. People using the technology incorrectly was.
But what if there is a nuclear meltdown in Japan and the radiation reaches America!?
...
Some people are actually afraid of this. Some people are actually worried that lethal levels of radiation might reach us across FIVE THOUSAND FUCKING MILES OF OCEAN. Some people are really fucking dumb.
There are hundreds of nuclear plants around America and I've never heard a peep about any of them. I'm not saying they're perfectly clean and safe, because any corporation is going to cut corners and pollute if it can save money by doing so. But the nuclear industry is not run by retards. They KNOW how bad a reputation nuclear energy has. So it's in their best interests to keep their plants as safe as they possibly can. They know that the slightest bad press will cost them shitloads of money. The Japan explosions are going to hurt them like hell anyway, and it's not even their fault! In reality, scientists designing nuclear energy plants have engineered failsafes like you wouldn't believe. A Chernobyl type disaster is literally no longer possible with the new kinds of reactors designed today. And for transporting nuclear waste, they have designed containers that can literally be hit by a high-speed train and not break! Instead of putting a moratorium on all nuclear energy, a far more sensible idea is to replace older plants and equipment (which are still mostly safe) with newer technology (which is even saferer).
Folks, you have to realize that there are things all around us way, way, WAY more dangerous to us than nuclear energy.
Cars?
Alcohol?
Or how about coal? That's right; the fuel we're NOT afraid of. Despite the fact that outdated coal plants cause so much pollution that scientists say they may shorten as many as 24,000 lives a year (22,000 of which could be prevented) by causing lung cancer. I don't even know how many coal miners die every year, but considering the recent stories about mine collapses and trapped miners all around the world, you know there has to be more incidents than just the ones that make it to the national news.
Do I even have to mention oil? Do I even have to mention BP?
It's simply human nature to be more emotionally affected by something bad that happens all at once, as opposed to something bad that happens gradually. We care more about the 3000 people who died in one morning on Sept. 11th than we do the 435,000 who died that same year from tobacco-related illness. Since I've made you aware of this little quirk of our brains, you have no excuse for not compensating for it anymore. It's understandable how an accident like Chernobyl could taint a generation's perception of nuclear power. But it happened in 1986. Things have changed since then and so should we.
Nuclear energy is not 100% safe and it never will be. But it's better than what we currently have. It's unfair to hold nuclear energy to an impossible standard because the public has a grossly inaccurate perception of it. Any attempt we make at gathering energy will have some drawbacks. I'm sure that there have been accidents involving solar energy and wind energy too. We should judge something not on whether any accidents ever happen, but on how often those accidents happen, how many people are affected, and what happens after they occur. In all those categories, nuclear energy has a better track record than coal or oil.
If you believe I'm wrong, show me statistics. Not what you 'feel' to be true.
Right now, our attitude is to fear something based on perception, while accepting something which is actually far, far deadlier to us, simply because it has a better reputation and we're used to it.
I would rather trust facts than perception.
Two last little points:
1) Nuclear energy and nuclear weapons are two different things. Feel free to be scared shitless of nuclear bombs all you want. That makes sense.
2) If you're afraid to use a microwave because it uses radiation, then please hit yourself in the head as hard as you possibly can with a science textbook.
EDIT: This is some pants-shittingly awesome video. Never have I seen such insane overkill trying to destroy something!
EDIT: Today on the news they said that a fourth reactor is having problems and might be leaking dangerous levels of radiation. Okay, fair enough, at least that's a real threat. Then the anchorwoman says, 'The Japanese might be facing an even worse disaster than what's already happened!' NO, NO, NO, YOU MINDLESS CUNT! Even if the goddamn thing blew up it still couldn't be worse than the fucking tsunami damage, you ratings-craving hogbitch!! <eternal facepalm>
FA+























Igor! Bring me a cat and some buttered toast!
news reporting. Enough with the fear mongers
I agree, the news is blowing this WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY out of proportion.
That magnitude might barely, BARELY, shake a few books off of the shelves.
I turn on the TV to watch AFV and what's on instead?
That's right. CHANNELS 2-7 INTERRUPT THE SCHEDULED PROGRAMMING FOR 3 WHOLE GODDAMN DAYS TO REPORT ON A PUSSY TREMOR!!!
It's ironic that the local news never has anything truly important to actually report.
Yyyyyep. Same damn thing happened around here. We had a tiny, tiny earthquake last summer and they would not shut up about it. They even managed to sensationalize the face that most people said they hadn't even felt it!!
On the bright side, at least with a premium cable package you can just go to Shotime.
... That gave me quite the bitter chuckle, there. There are really people that think that might happen?
And, as for Chernobyl... that really was brought on by a bunch of idiots being... idiots. There really is no chance of that kind of event happening again, ever. So yeah, I also think that people need to get over it.
From an extra-double-big .PDF I've been studying: http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/public.....ub913e_web.pdf
To summarize, the new information has highlighted a number of broader
problems contributing to the accident. These include:
— A plant which fell well short of the safety standards in effect when it was
designed, and even incorporated unsafe features;
— Inadequate safety analysis;
— Insufficient attention to independent safety review;
— Operating procedures not founded satisfactorily in safety analysis;
— Inadequate and ineffective exchange of important safety information both
between operators and between operators and designers;
— Inadequate understanding by operators of the safety aspects of their
plant;
— Insufficient respect on the part of the operators for the formal requirements
of operational and test procedures;
24
An insufficiently effective regulatory regime that was unable to counter
pressures for production;
A general lack of safety culture in nuclear matters, at the national level
as well as locally.
I have no idea if people really are afraid of that, or if the news is just claiming it's a concern to make people afraid of that. Then again, no one ever got rich underestimating human gullibility.
>From an extra-double-big .PDF I've been studying: http://www-pub.iaea.org/MTCD/public.....ub913e_web.pdf
HOW THE FUCK DID THESE PEOPLE MANAGE TO PUT THEIR PANTS ON IN THE MORNING!?!?
Reminds me of this article on nuclear plants that said (if I recall correctly): "Do you know how much damage a nuclear reactor would sustain if you hit it with a cruise missile? FUCK ALL."
That is FUCKING PERFECT. I want a button that says that. :)
>"Do you know how much damage a nuclear reactor would sustain if you hit it with a cruise missile? FUCK ALL."
Sounds about right, given what I've seen. BTW, this is pants-shittingly awesome: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1mHtOW-OBO4
Oh, and speaking of Chernobyl: I read this interesting photo journal by someone taking photographs of Priapat today. One spot he visited was a particular bridge across from ground zero. Apparently, several people stood there on the day of the disaster, watching in awe as "rainbow-colored flames" spewed from the exploding plant, making Chernobyl perhaps the gayest nuclear explosion in history.
On the other hand, people did used to congregate in Las Vegas to watch the atomic bomb tests. Needless to say, cancercancercancer.
That's the sad truth of news. Sensationalism sells. We partly have Hollywood to blame - we get so accustomed to The Big Show that real life gets boring rather quickly.
I want some more numbers to help put the stats you just showed in perspective. Here's what cdc.gov has to say about that:
Number of deaths for leading causes of death in 2007:
* Heart disease: 616,067
* Cancer: 562,875
* Stroke (cerebrovascular diseases): 135,952
* Chronic lower respiratory diseases: 127,924
* Accidents (unintentional injuries): 123,706
* Alzheimer's disease: 74,632
* Diabetes: 71,382
* Influenza and Pneumonia: 52,717
* Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome, and nephrosis: 46,448
* Septicemia: 34,828
Source: Deaths: Final Data for 2007, table B
Nephritis - kidney disease. How's that for a pisser? Diseases and accidents remain far more dangerous and worrying killers than nuclear power ever will be. Quite a few folks have pointed out that air travel, despite the steady drizzle of airplanes falling out of the sky, remains far safer than driving. Hell, you probably have better odds getting elected to Congress than getting killed by a nuclear reactor meltdown.
Oh, Alex, you forgot to mention one thing that is 100% fatal, despite our best efforts. Here's a rather long hint:
This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town
And beats high mountain down.
Dimension often referred to as fourth
Relative to the observer and so forth
Yep. I don't know how we got to a point where the news thought it was in competition with action movies, but it fucking well shouldn't be.
>This thing all things devours:
Birds, beasts, trees, flowers;
Gnaws iron, bites steel;
Grinds hard stones to meal;
Slays king, ruins town
And beats high mountain down.
...me?
Ah the hell with it--read "The Hobbit".
Fear is a motivator, but if all you're running off of is fear, then it's also completely counterproductive.
Still, to be fair you have to count all the illnesses the radiation poisoning caused. There's no way to downplay the Chernobyl incident. But then again, we've had two space shuttles blow up and we haven't stopped sending 'em up. That's the attitude we need: terrible accidents may happen, but we shouldn't let that scare us away from progress.
My nerdiness engaged at the mention of the shuttles, so I feel a need to shove my butt in. I'll moon everyone first...
Small adjustment to your statement: We didn't stop sending them up after those accidents. The past tense will be true very soon.
The Challenger incident grounded the fleet for just over two years. Sorting out that mess led to a bunch of new procedures and checks; all was well and good until Columbia went down, showing just how badly age is catching up with the space shuttle fleet. The orbiters are now scheduled for retirement: STS-133 was Discovery's last mission; Endeavour will make one more flight; and Atlantis will get the last hurrah of the shuttle program with STS-135, scheduled for later this year.
Getting back to the subject of lethality, the space shuttle program claimed a total of 14 lives. (Tasteless Joke from late 1986: NASA = Need Another Seven Astronauts.) Russia lost a few in their space program, too; and let's not forget training accidents.
Just my *adjusting for inflation* $2.50 worth. Really shouldn't be writing this stuff late at night, I easily drift off into a Wiki Walk!
Still, I think it's expected that eventually we'll put something else up there, probably with someone else in it. Personally, I'm totally rooting for space tourism. Capitalism may have its faults, but having two huge companies trying to outdo each other in space technology so rich people can dick around on the moon is virtually guaranteed to advance things waythefuck beyond what NASA's been doing for the past few decades.
>Tasteless Joke from late 1986: NASA = Need Another Seven Astronauts.
Oh GAWD. I shouldn't laugh...
I've never been entirely comfortable with the idea that only a government can put a man in space anyway.
That's so fucking true it needs to be engraved in gold.
Good things never last.
Because if violence isn't solving all your problems, you're not using enough of it.
It's actually been a struggle for me, in my current story, to write depictions of realistic violence between people (as opposed to monsters or zombies) because it makes me uncomfortable to think about morals and points of view and etc.
Actually, what I'm more scared about is nuclear weapons. I recently watched a Cold War-era disaster film called The Day After, about what might've happened if the USSR had actually nuked the US. It was...disturbing, to say the least.
So I'm just hoping that Kim-Jong Il doesn't go completely off the reservation and press the Launch button. Or that his son is less crazy than he is.
Eep! Yeah, that'd probably make me pee myself a little too.
>Actually, what I'm more scared about is nuclear weapons. I recently watched a Cold War-era disaster film called The Day After, about what might've happened if the USSR had actually nuked the US. It was...disturbing, to say the least.
OH GOD. I sat through that film too. Depressing doesn't even begin to cover it. In fact, that film was exactly why I put in that bit at the end about nuclear weapons. They are definitely bad. But an entire science isn't bad because it can be put to evil uses.
>So I'm just hoping that Kim-Jong Il doesn't go completely off the reservation and press the Launch button. Or that his son is less crazy than he is.
We can hope. I think Kimmy's too much of an attention whore to ever really do anything for real, but all the same I'm kinda rooting for one of his fellow countrymen to just straight-up shoot him.
And I had the misfortune of watching that movie the same day I had to watch The Deer Hunter.
I think he's just batshit insane, and I hope some country has the good sense to assassinate him soon. I mean, the UN will tsk-tsk, but they really won't care. When you have a mentally unstable man with a Napoleon complex in charge of nuclear missiles, it's time to send in a black-bag squad or three.
Nuclear power is a very fragile technology if you examine the principle well. You have a bundle of radioactive material in active fission and what you do is to shelter it and keep it cool constantly with water to transmit the heat to the water and generate energy. In other words you have practically a nuclear bomb encased in a cooling tank stopping it from exploding and instead use the energy to generate electricity.
I think that the secondary disaster was unforeseen and displays the disadvantage of this technology. A melt down in a location affects entire regions and the repercussion go from one country to the next. Once, it's released you cannot contain it and you have to deal with the consequences.
Besides that, there are alternatives for nuclear energy that are safer; this includes Thorium power plants. With Thorium the likehood of meltdown is a fraction of that of a conventional one and also the material cannot be used to create weapons.
The issue here, is that safer alternatives are not put forward because the conventional reactor gives the excuse to provide money to build weapons as well.
It would be stupid to panic but it is always good to know if there is risk of exposure so I'll be tracking the situation with this:
http://www.radiationnetwork.com/Rad.....ionNetwork.htm
One of the problems with the Japan reactors was that they used a VERY old design, not only Boiling Water Reactor which is the least safe and is no longer constructed, ever... but also the coolant had to be pumped in rather than gravity-fed, so when the pumps failed, the water stopped flowing.
And you know what? It's still safer than Chernobyl. They've already evacuated the area in which there's the remotest chance of risk to human life from the worst-case meltdown of these plants. Japan is the only country to have ever had atomic weapons used against them in war--when they work with atomic energy, they're not bloody likely to take it lightly. :)
Here is this video: "Piers Corbyn All Reactors are Nuclear Bombs "
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l5la7EWhkUA&feature=player_embedded
Sadly, it seems the events of Chernobyl are happening again. The magnitude of the disaster is difficult to measure but certain things raise concern:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/14/w.....tary.html?_r=1
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art.....-crippled.html
I'm not blaming the Japanese. Nobody could have foreseen this monster earthquake and tsunami. Only time will tell how bad was the situation in the nuclear plants. (From what I posted above, not good)
OH NO!!! I'M SO CONCERNED!!!
"Japan radiation leaks force 140,000 indoors" http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/4208418.....s-asiapacific/
On Saturday, there was radiation 1000 more than the usual around the site when the first reactor blew up it means the radioactive material is escaping into the atmosphere.
The Japanese are already handling a huge tragedy. Now time will tell about the consequences.
I think is healthy to have a debate about nuclear energy and potential upgrades and substitutions. Thorium seems to be a good answer.
Let's make it clear: I am not a cheerleader for nuclear power. I just don't like any situation in which people are basing their opinions about a science not on facts, but on perception. I don't like any situation in which the news shamelessly lies and exaggerates.
Like I said, nuclear is far from perfect. But I'd rather have a bunch of nuclear reactors, which only pose a cancer risk when they are catastrophically damaged, than a bunch of coal plants, which pose a much higher cancer risk ALL THE TIME.
Ideally, it'd be nice if we could have a power source with NO cancer risks. And maybe Thorium is it. But of the three; nuclear, coal or oil, it looks like nuclear is the LEAST dangerous, yet has the worst reputation. That does not sit well with me.
The point of this essay is really just to get people to look at an unpopular idea objectively, instead of emotionally.
What's happening is like this: The process of extracting oil and coal in an efficient, clean and safe way is a very expensive process.
The companies that profit from this like to cut costs. How? Well, they externalize costs and find places in other countries that do not have strict environmental regulations. But to do that, they need to shut the existing production here so they can move over there. So they lobby the government to start passing draconian regulations to control CO2 emissions and give themselves waivers. This way they shut down the competition. Once they have the monopoly here, they can move to places where there is cheap labor.
An additional perk comes from this. The companies also created the carbon trading scheme (Al Gore created the trading scheme with Ken Lay form ENRON) In this scheme, the small producers have to pay if they exceed a cap of carbon dioxide to have the permission to pollute. The big corporations can pay the fines and excess pollution but not the competition. This money goes to a fund that is connected to the stock market and the stock holders make billions. It also gives the excuse to rise the prices of oil, coal and natural gas because production decreases and demand stays the same.
Why do you think the campaigns are about reducing "CARBON FOOTPRINT"?. They are talking about carbon dioxide. Carbon dioxide is an innocuous gas that is part of the life cycle. Plants take CO2 to produce oxygen. As has been repeated ad nauseum, anthropogenic global warming is a scam and the scam is run by the very same companies that are the worst polluters. It has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with making money and shutting down the competition.
The impression you have about coal plants likely comes from propaganda that shows all that white smoke coming from the stacks. What this is is water vapor and CO2. (that's it) filmed during a cold day.
The best documentary that explains this is called Fall of the Republic: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VebOTc-7shU
I recommend you people out there to see it.
Because we've been switching to nuclear reactors that can't produce the material for nuclear bombs, we are also having a dangerous shortage of medical isotopes and other nuclear byproduct materials that are used for non-violent means. Any tool can be a weapon, any weapon can be a tool.
In any case I think this comment I found recently is quite telling in regards to nuclear power: http://imgur.com/r81co
This is footage of the explosion at #3. There is an initial orange flash before the explosion and the smoke is black yellow. Hydrogen doesn't do that. Plutonium does that.
This is the source. Look it up and listen to this man's podcast. He worked for NASA before:
"The news keeps repeating that this is a Hydrogen explosion. But Hydrogen, when it burns, burns with a clear blue flame, almost invisible. Note the orange flash at the moment of the blast. Hydrogen, when it burns, produces water vapor, or steam. The combustion products emerging from the ruined reactor do not look like a steam blast. Burning hydrogen is not high-velocity, so pulverized concrete does not account for the color. As a side note, burned Plutonium, Pu4+, is yellow brown."
Read more: WHAT REALLY HAPPENED | The History The US Government HOPES You Never Learn! http://whatreallyhappened.com/#ixzz1GfWTiUgF
Also, fun fact: Damaging a nuclear weapon renders it incapable of exploding. It does not trigger it. This doesn't have much to do with the nuclear plants, but I thought it would be mildly entertaining.
I've seen action movies where they either acknowledge this, or completely get it backwards.
Damn, I'm nerdy! I didn't even need the reference!
How strict are US protocols when it comes to nuclear power?
I don't know what protocols we have or if they are effective. I am not a nuclear engineer, and could not tell you if they are "enough". But I suspect that they will be so long as we can keep them maintained and enforced. By maintained, I mean we need the protocols to survive any lobbying effort the plant constructors can make. And the agency in charge has to have enough muscle to carry out their police duties.
Excellent point.
However, like I said to another dude up there: I am not a cheerleader for nuclear power. I just don't like any situation in which people are basing their opinions about a science not on facts, but on perception. I don't like any situation in which the news shamelessly lies and exaggerates.
Nuclear is far from perfect. But I'd rather have a bunch of nuclear reactors, which only pose a cancer risk when they are catastrophically damaged, than a bunch of coal plants, which pose a much higher cancer risk ALL THE TIME.
Ideally, it'd be nice if we could have a power source with NO cancer risks. But of the three; nuclear, coal or oil, it looks like nuclear is the LEAST dangerous, yet has the worst reputation. That does not sit well with me.
The point of this essay is really just to get people to look at an unpopular idea objectively, instead of emotionally.
GET CANCER
CONVERT CANCER INTO ENERGY
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PROBLEM, NUCLEAR PHYSICS?
As much as I despise the overused trollface memes, I do have a soft spot for troll science.
I like to imagine that Bill O'Reilly thinks the Sun and the Moon are powered by little sun and moon gnomes that have each other on speed dial.
Oh man, what if Cthulhu and the other elder gods are just so old and senile that their madness has become contagious?
Reminds me of something Carlin said: "If you could find a solution to homelessness where the corporate swine and the politicians could steal a couple of million dollars each, you'd see the streets of America begin to clear up pretty god-damned quick, I'll guarantee you that!"
But you can bet there'll be dozens of anti-"nukular" groups shitting their pants with delight as they gleefully point and say "SEE?! SEE?! WE'RE RIGHT IT'S SO DANGEROUS BLUUUUUUUUH BAN BAN BAN BAN BAN!!!1"
But as far as actually testing its strength and not just trying to break it, I imagine them doing the compact compact rocket sled thing. That would be sick. Send one of these things full of water at sonic speed at a car, or a transport or something.
Just pile on the explosives until the thing eventually goes boom? Yeah, that sounds like them. Of course to do any damage it seems like they'd have to have the container surrounded by explosives, and all that surrounded by another container, otherwise most of the blast force would just go away from/around the container.
>But as far as actually testing its strength and not just trying to break it, I imagine them doing the compact compact rocket sled thing. That would be sick. Send one of these things full of water at sonic speed at a car, or a transport or something.
It would have to be at something weighing a ton, otherwise the sled, with that thing on top of it, would just swat it away. Maybe a train car/engine, that would make one heck of an impact.
Still, yeah, it'd be fun to see Adam's reaction to slamming a rocket sled into one of these mothers. :3
However, I didn't say I believed every word they said because they're Penn and Teller. I believed it because the evidence they presented made sense. And because the further I researched, the more their conclusions were borne out by other sources.
Hell, maybe they produce those occasional biased-as-bullshit Bullshit! episodes just to see which of their fans believe everything they say, and which ones are willing to fact-check. XD
--> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centralia,_PA
How many other "energy disastervilles" are there on the planet that have KILLED people and are still a threat today?
They aren't nuclear.
>How many other "energy disastervilles" are there on the planet that have KILLED people and are still a threat today? They aren't nuclear.
Off the top of my head I can think of Love Canal and the Bhopal gas tragedy. I'm not sure if either site's been fully cleaned up by now.
Indeed it was!
Some folks are against Hydroelectric power but here in Canada we've depended on it so heavily that Hydro is synonymous with Electricity, and we've got workarounds for every environmental impact.
>I'm fine with nuclear power though I think it would be better to alternate to a mix of wind power, geothermal power, and hydroelectric power.
Agreed. Ideally, nuclear should be a stepping stone; we use it to move away from coal and oil, then we move away from nuclear too once we've got other kinds of energy production perfected and widespread.
People are also against wind power. There's all sorts of crazies out there spreading bunk and bullshit and people eat it up with salt and pepper. They think wind power will cause cancer or that it'll have some chemical fallout or a dozen insane ideas that make no sense and yet they cling to them because they're afraid of progress. It's not even that they don't understand them, they could if they wanted to but that would mean accepting reality.
I don't think I can blame anyone for not accepting reality, it's kind of crap. ^.^;;
It sucks that they're getting in the way of clean energy though.
Wind power? I've done a bit of research, and from what i can tell, the only real problems they have are that they're a hazard to birds, but so is air pollution, and they can be noisy and ugly looking. But then again, SO IS AIR POLLUTION.
I don't think they're really a serious hazard to birds. Birds die all the time from stupid things, they don't need man made things to kill themselves.
I have no idea what makes you think they can be noisy, I've been reasonably close to them and never noticed noise.
Bird kills (and more recently, bat kills) are a big issue for the under-informed, and those people who are against wind power development. In reality the issue is minor and stems from early utility-scale wind installations ... Commercial wind farms have been sited with birds in mind for many years now... The biggest modern killers of birds are power lines, cell phone and other communications towers, pesticides, and domestic cats. ...
...we recently got to witness a pair of male hummingbirds engaged in an aerial duel in, around and through the blades of a local [windmill] turbine running during high winds—an amazing display that caused no harm to the birds, and was like watching the Ornithological Olympics for us!
source
The answer to bird puree? Put the windmills where there's wind but few birds. Right behind me would work after I've been eating beans...
Now, wind farms do have issues with bats: If a bat flies through the low pressure vortexes coming off the tips of the blades, it can destroy the bat's lungs[2]. The current solution is ultrasonic bat repellent noisemakers, but work is being done to try and eliminate the vortex problem, (it causes drag, so it needs to be fixed anyway).
[1] Low diameter/high RPM, open lattice structure, situated right next to a bird sanctuary.
[2] Bird lungs can take it just fine, so they can fly right through these with no more problem than suddenly losing a few feet of altitude.
Shows how little things have changed, I remember when 3 Mile Island happened and the fear monger were out in force then too.
Classic bit was all networks talking about raising radiation levels in Vermont, only one bothered to point out officials said that happens every year and is a natural phenomenon when the snow melts.
Humans will destroy themselfs - in the worst case nobody AND nothing will survive.
Nuclear Powerstations are also dangerous when there don't got a meltdown - think of the waste.
Personally, I'm not sure why we can't just throw it at the moon.
Symbols have the same problem- the classic radiation symbol, for instance, looks sort of like an angel (think of the three black fan shapes as wings and a robe). Yeah it seems silly to think that now, but what will future generations think?
"There must be some AWESOME Loot in there!"
Everything's dead rocks and dust on the moon! What's there to pollute!?
And like I said, it's way too expensive. Even launching a small payload into space costs hundreds of millions of dollars just to get out of earth's gravitational pull, and every little moment has to be timed precisely otherwise the rocket will either miss the moon or worse, fall back to earth. Much easier to just dig a big-ass hole and dump it all in.
Though on a related note, there was a plan to use nuclear bombs as a means of propulsion, buy basically having a thick-armored spaceship poop out little nukes behind it, blowing them up and surfing the shockwaves. It would have been much faster than our current rockets. Unfortunately there were treaties back in the 50's that forbid the use and/or testing of nuclear bombs near Earth in space.
True, but I thought that if we're going to have suits/domes to protect us from the lack of atmosphere and temprature, wouldn't that also protect us from the radiation? This is just a question; I have no idea for sure.
>And like I said, it's way too expensive. Even launching a small payload into space costs hundreds of millions of dollars just to get out of earth's gravitational pull, and every little moment has to be timed precisely otherwise the rocket will either miss the moon or worse, fall back to earth. Much easier to just dig a big-ass hole and dump it all in.
What about giant slingshots? Or mailing it to the set of Jersey Shore?
>Though on a related note, there was a plan to use nuclear bombs as a means of propulsion, buy basically having a thick-armored spaceship poop out little nukes behind it, blowing them up and surfing the shockwaves. It would have been much faster than our current rockets. Unfortunately there were treaties back in the 50's that forbid the use and/or testing of nuclear bombs near Earth in space.
Too bad. That sounds like the most retardedly macho sci-fi shit I've heard in a long time. :)
They probably could, but remember that now that we'd have to learn how to use resources from the moon itself (including the water we just recently discovered), and I don't think astronauts would want to be drinking radioactive moon water.
>What about giant slingshots? Or mailing it to the set of Jersey Shore?
They actually are working on non-rocket spacelaunchers like that, though they'd probably use giant electromagnetic railguns.
As for the second option... I thought they already did that. How else would their skin turn orange? Unless they're actually in LoompaLand.
>Too bad. That sounds like the most retardedly macho sci-fi shit I've heard in a long time. :)
"riding on the shockwave of a nuclear blast" sounds like a kickass lyric from a Tenacious D song.
Oooh, right. Forgot about the water. Thanks for bombing the moon, Obama!
>"riding on the shockwave of a nuclear blast" sounds like a kickass lyric from a Tenacious D song.
Say, it does! Or how Jack Black would describe himself cumming.
Plus there's no guarantee we won't find something useful to do with it. I read something recently about some billionaire funding research into a new kind of reactor that utilizes material we currently classify as waste.
If it's dangerous then it's doing something. If it's doing something then it CAN do something. We just need to figure out what to do with it.
Anything that's radioactive for long enough that you need to worry about it being around after civilization falls into history isn't going to be very radioactive, so you don't have to worry about it melting your face off. The more radioactive a material is the faster it decays into non-radioactive materials. The longer their half-life, the less constant radiation they are giving off.
Simple solution: we do it directly over Alabama.
>I read something recently about some billionaire funding research into a new kind of reactor that utilizes material we currently classify as waste.
That kicks a bunch of ass.
>Anything that's radioactive for long enough that you need to worry about it being around after civilization falls into history isn't going to be very radioactive, so you don't have to worry about it melting your face off. The more radioactive a material is the faster it decays into non-radioactive materials. The longer their half-life, the less constant radiation they are giving off.
I did not know that, but it makes perfect sense!
What does it release as waste then? Cinnamon buns?
I have no idea what the end product would be since there's no guarantee their reactor will even work, but it's possible that they'll produce a material that decays so fast that they don't have to store it anymore, or something that decays into a non-radioactive material. It's also possible it'll decay into more radioactive waste, but there would be less of it, and it would be more efficient overall.
It probably wouldn't release Cinnamon buns as waste.
Apple crumbles then?
We also have that fearmongering in Germany, and got consequently abused in the whole debate about increasing the runtime of our nuclear power plants or not, in addition of the fearmongering we already had about that before.
What speaks for increasing runtime is that if we do not, we have to buy more power from out neighbouring countries and if their power plants are less safe than ours - which is likely with Germany having as far as I know higher security standards for the things than some of the other EU states and especially the newer EU states from Eastern Europe - it only increases the overall EU-wide risk something happens.
The thing that actually does worry me at bit is that the experts - though telling the true experts from "experts" that only fearmonger because they got bribed or want media attention is a problem by itself - say that if the thing explodes the radioactive material will enter the higher atmosphere and be spread around the globe, like after Tshernobyl. On the other hand, mankind survided that too.
<blush> Thanks very much. ^__^
>it only increases the overall EU-wide risk something happens.
AAARGH. This is the kind of thing that drives me fucknuts. People won't suport something if they imagine it might cause problems, even if not taking that option is more likely to cause REAL problems! Maybe it's global, but it seems like Americans have perfected this kind of thinking to a science. I call it the WPO response.
I would totally want Fester as an Uncle. The fourth of July BBQ's would be epic.
sometimes I find myself saying the same time.
we should talk eventually!
** sometimes i find myself saying the same things **
Except it can't even blow up. The worst case scenario looks like to dump concrete over the thing to let it cool quietly without sending more radiation in the atmosphere.
They were trying so hard to portray the events as some cataclysm waiting to happen, and the expert was just not playing ball. It's the only remotely funny I've seen with regards to the tragedy.
You know what's weird though? Now that that fourth plant is going tits-up and there really is a significant threat, all of a sudden the newspeople aren't hyperbole-ing nearly as much anymore. Maybe it sobered them up to realize what actually could happen? Or maybe it's just that, now that they actually have something to talk about, they don't have to make up such outrageous horseshit.
This wasn't a moron. This was deliberate, and actually quite intelligent. That's even fucking worse.
GB said 56 people died; CNN confirmed that number for the explosion but added 4000 for cancer. You it-has-been-estimated 10000 deaths for the recent earthquake+tsunami, so I checked that number; http://news.blogs.cnn.com/2011/03/1.....s-u-s-support/ gives 5321 dead, but with 9329 missing for a possible total of 14650, 10000 is sort of a reasonable number.
So, yeah. 5000 vs. 4000. In a nutshell, Beck is right to say fears of nuclear energy are overblown, but he's picking data stupidly.
*Googles for Chernobyl toll* Crap. Wikipedia currently says the number 4000 was taken out of context, whereas this 2006 article says it might be 200,000: http://www.commondreams.org/headlin.....06/0418-04.htm Any of these numbers could change everything above, but I don't know whether I could stick to it long enough to decide whom to believe.
But I also wanted to point out this other thing from your post:
It's simply human nature to be more emotionally affected by something bad that happens all at once, as opposed to something bad that happens gradually.
That doesn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Sure, both can be true, but that makes the focus on a possible meltdown, rather than the known earthquake, more of an exception.
Fuck Glenn Beck. He should die. Literally. He should choke on his own saliva and die. I'd bet a bushel of money if he's supporting nuclear energy it's just to be contrary and provocative. I'm doing it because I've felt this way for a good long time and genuinely believe the general public has a misinformed perception of it. I was actually very surprised by how low the numbers were in regards to Chernobyl victims. But it kinda makes sense too. The public perception kinda overlaps 'nuclear accident' with 'nuclear bomb', so I'd been assuming the numbers were as bad as Hiroshima or Nagasaki.
I've accidentally 'sided' with Rush Limbaugh once before too. I guess this is simply a risk of being someone who doesn't hew to any one ideology. I write about what *I* believe is true, never giving a thought to whether it's a left or right-leaning belief. The biggest difference between me, Rush and Glenn is that only one of us will ever willingly admit to being wrong. ;)
>That doesn't quite mesh with the rest of the post. Sure, both can be true, but that makes the focus on a possible meltdown, rather than the known earthquake, more of an exception.
I did acknowledge that though: Spending time reporting on the real tragedy and the real victims is depressing. People don't want to watch what depresses them. But fear? Fear keeps people riveted to their seats!
Plus, there's also the nasty truth that Americans tend to treat reality like television: we get bored with what we've already seen before. 'We've already DONE the earthquake thing with Haiti! And wasn't there a tsunami in the same area a few years ago? BORING! What else is on? Oh, wait! Nuclear radiation!! I haven't been afraid of that in years! Let's keep watching!'.
>Some people are actually afraid of this. Some people are actually worried that lethal levels of radiation might reach us across FIVE THOUSAND FUCKING MILES OF OCEAN. Some people are really fucking dumb.
Ahahah. The smart scientists were even saying that you'd have to eat two tons of iodized salt for it to even have a minimally effective amount of iodine. I was talking about this with my boyfriend and his dad, and we were like "Now only would you be DEAD, you'd weigh TWO TONS"
>Do I even have to mention oil? Do I even have to mention BP?
You know what I recently thought about? That people with endlessly bitching conservative families like me here hear the finality of any event like this? My ENTIRE FAMILY and their dogs were bitching about the BP oil spill. But when it was fixed? Nothing. No "yays!" or anything. And it's funny that people were concerned more about the price of their gas and oil than the ELEVEN workers killed in the incident.
On an unrelated topic to the Montroversy one, You know what I think? That we should switch gas prices with Europe. People in America whine FOREVER about the price of gas even breaching 3.50, but even though we guzzle up more gas as a country than any other country, Europe consistently pays over 5 and 6 dollars for theirs! It would teach the dumbass people here to buy a car that gets over 13 mpg. I'm a TEENAGER and my car gets better mileage than my parents. And it's a 12 year old Saturn. *facepalm*
>they went RIGHT TO talking about the children of Chernobyl victims and their chances of cancer.
Does not surprise me. For all their talk of calming fears, their actions clearly show that their true goal is to perpetuate it for their own selfish reasons.
>Ahahah. The smart scientists were even saying that you'd have to eat two tons of iodized salt for it to even have a minimally effective amount of iodine.
Two tons of salt? You mean half a bag of Fritos? <rimshot>
>"Now only would you be DEAD, you'd weigh TWO TONS"
HAHAHA!!! I like that.
>And it's funny that people were concerned more about the price of their gas and oil than the ELEVEN workers killed in the incident.
That's not funny; that's just plain ol' American selfishness.
>That we should switch gas prices with Europe.
I LIKE HOW YOU THINK. Whenever I hear that people are STILL buying SUVs and other land-zeppelins, I want to just puke and cry at the same time.
I love it.
>I LIKE HOW YOU THINK. Whenever I hear that people are STILL buying SUVs and other land-zeppelins, I want to just puke and cry at the same time.
My parents have a Dodge Ram and an Ford Explorer. Their mpg is MAYBE about 18. That's probably being generous about the Ram. That thing EATS GAS. And my dad never fills it up, so whenever I have to drive it, i end up having to pay for it :I
Also, in other news as well, I just got an e-mail from my grandma about 3 southerners duping 3 "Yankees", and at the bottom it said: "There's just no way on God's green earth to explain how the Yankees won the Civil War..."
I wanted to facepalm so hard
Did you know coal-fired power plants release more radiation than nuclear plants? THE IRONY.
I would have stood up and called him a mainstream-news-believing moron.