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I OFFICIALLY REFUDIATE FURAFFINITY
14 years ago
(And yes, I know 'refudiate' is a made-up Sarah Palin word. But it fits.)
This is a journal that I've been meaning to write for a long time now. In fact it's overdue. The main announcement here is that from now on, all my new art and stories will be uploaded to InkBunny and not here. I've already uploaded a few IB-exclusive drawings and one story, so if you're watching me here and not watching me there, now's the time to make the switch.
Back when the cub art ban came down, I said I was going to do this. Unfortunately, I underestimated how long it was going to take for me to upload all my stuff from FA onto IB. It took quite a bit longer than I expected. But now it's all there and I'm starting to add new stuff. It's time to finally make a clean break with FA (more on that in a minute).
First I wanna let you know exactly why I'm making this announcement now. I'd originally planned to write this journal yesterday afternoon, but didn't really have the motivation for it because something amazing happened (more on that in a minute). Last night though, after reading a really damn good Dangerous Lunatics fanfic, I looked in my PMs here and my happiness fell flatter than something that is very flat:
Submission removal: This Is Not A Child
I somehow managed to facepalm and headdesk at the same time. Repeatedly.
I am not going to say which admin removed this, because at this point the admins are indistinguishable to me. I expect this kind of behavior from all of them, and my problem is with the site's management as a whole. Anyway, [Admin1] said:
"This image has been removed for violating this part of the aup: FA does not permit content containing minors involved in sexual situations. This applies to humans (Loli, Shota) or otherwise human-like characters (i.e. Cub) who are, without question, under the general legal age (18). Images or stories where the character is of questionable or indeterminable age will be up to the discretion of the administration."
And I replied:
"I cannot express in words how furious I am right now.
That drawing was specifically made to make a point: THAT IT WAS NOT A CUB IN A SEXUAL SITUATION! It was tasteful, nonsexual nudity. The kind that can be seen in any art museum anywhere in the country.
IT DID NOT VIOLATE THE AUP.
There was hundreds of lines worth of conversation on that submission. WHY did you remove it without giving me any chance to screencap or otherwise preserve it first?
WHY did you suddenly have a problem with this image now, even though it had been online for literally years?
WHY, out of all the blatantly sexual cub material that is still on FA, that you admins have done nothing about, did you remove AN IMAGE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE NONSEXUAL!?"
Their response:
"First of all please familiarize yourself with the FA Storage policy: We provided storage for our users to keep and maintain their data on the site. However, Fur Affinity IS NOT a backup service, and we are not responsible for long term archival of user data or loss of files. We encourage users to keep regular backups and archives of their data using a service and/or storage media intended for that purpose.
Moving along it is at the discretion of the administration to make a choice when presented with this kind of content. The choice was made to remove it."
My response:
"Why was that choice made, is what I'm asking. Since you had the ability to either leave it alone or remove it, what made you decide to remove it?
I am angry at this decision because I designed the image specifically to be in compliance with the AUP, yet it gets removed anyway. I don't think that's fair or right."
They haven't responded back and I doubt they will.
Because I regarded this as one of the biggest examples of admin hypocrisy I have ever seen, I reported [Admin1] for misconduct. [Admin2] replied and said he was willing to take a look at the disputed image. Unsurprisingly, he said he'd have voted to remove it too. Here it is for you to judge. Now, maybe I miscalculated. I did, in all honesty, try to make this an image that would test people's limits, but one that, reasonably, could not be called pornography. The cub is toddler-age, sitting by himself, not doing anything sexual, and is unerect. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems like nonsexual nudity to me. Especially when we let schoolchildren see this and this.
So, either the admins are saying that 'art has different standards, and furry art isn't art', or they're saying 'all nudity is sexual'. In which case, I pity this hyperphobic, sex-obsessed culture of ours.
But beyond my personal anger at this, there's two reasons why this incident should make you completely lose faith in this site's administration. First off, you noticed how I mentioned that they had removed an image designed to be nonsexual, despite all the sexy, sexy cub sex still on here? That's right, I'm gonna come right out and say it:
THE BAN ON CUB ART WAS A MASSIVE LIE.
When the ban happened, users were told to clean out their galleries before a certain deadline or else the admins would clean them out for us. Like a lot of other people, I refused to take down doodely-squat. Because if the admins were going to censor art at the expense of its userbase in order to placate AlertPay, I reasoned that it was THEIR mess and THEIR responsibility to clean it up. Why the fuck should I help them gut my gallery!?
But the gallery-gutting never came. And from what I've seen, all the threats that it would were BULLSHIT. My gallery is still chock full of cub porn, and I suspect most of the cub porn posted here is still here. Sure, I'm inviting them to remove my art by saying this, but I've got everything moved over to InkBunny so it doesn't matter. And what are they gonna do? Send me a notice to 'clean' out my gallery or they'll do it for me? I hope they do! I wanna watch the deadline pass without them doing anything. Either the admins are lazy, or they simply do not have the staff power to patrol galleries like they say they do. In other words, the cops are snoozing, fellas!
So let's take a step back: AlertPay steals a bunch of FA's money and says it's because our site allows cub porn. FA responds by vigorously licking AlertPay's boots and promising to get rid of all that nasty, nasty cub porn, if only AlertPay would come back to them. How's that working out, by the way? BTW, before AlertPay could even do anything to InkBunny, IB told them to GO FUCK THEMSELVES. IB did the ballsy thing. FA did the cowardly thing. It threw its users on the sacrificial alter in a futile attempt to appease a thieving bully. And then they lied to us about it. They scared us into combing our galleries for cub art, essentially making us do their job for them. A job they probably never really intended to do. The cub ban was a stunt, nothing more. And we got trampled.
But beyond the dishonesty, there's another reason why you shouldn't trust this site.
Read again what [Admin1] said about how this site "IS NOT a backup service." Wait... Shouldn't it be? I have been told before that once a submission is removed, the comments and stats are gone forever. Does this mean they don't have backups? I just checked Archive.org and we can't even find backups of our pages there. And also keep in mind that ONE admin acted as judge, jury and submission-executioner. The admins have the power to, on a whim, PERMANENTLY erase anything here.
Now, let's imagine what could happen if an admin became emotionally unstable, or if their password became compromised. With so much power concentrated in the hands of every admin, if just one of their passwords got hacked, someone could cause an awful lot of irreparable damage in very little time.
Folks, this is the equivalent of a police force with no organization, giving shoulder mounted ICBM launchers to all its street officers. Does that make you feel safe?
This site's administration is BROKEN, BROKEN, BROKEN. When I first mentioned I was going to InkBunny, people asked me, "Why? What's so bad about FurAffinity?" Well, if you have to ask, then I probably can't convince you. All I can say is that I have had many, MANY experiences with the admins that have convinced me that this is a site being run like the Wild West; sheriffs with unlimited power and no consensus between them of site policy, are wandering the site dispensing justice as they see fit. If they decide a submission of yours violates policy, they remove it without giving you any chance to argue or preserve it. When [Admin1] told me "We encourage users to keep regular backups and archives of their data using a service and/or storage media intended for that purpose.", she was basically saying, "I broke into your house and took your stuff because I felt justified. You're never getting it back no matter what. Too bad you didn't buy copies of everything beforehand."
Individual admins have too much power. And they are not using it wisely.
If this journal gets removed, it will be proof of what I'm saying.
But enough about me complaining about admins! It's time I told you the specifics of my move to InkBunny. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that I am leaving FurAffinity. All it means is that I'm not going to upload any new art or stories here. (I might still do a journal now and then.) Why am I not leaving in a huff? Because that's childish and self-destructive. I'm still going to keep an eye on things here because I have friends here I want to keep in contact with, and also because FA gives me free porn. No matter how much I hate how this site is run, that's not going to stop me from squeezing every orgasm I can out of it. ^__^
Also, please do not worry that I'm going to erase everything in my gallery. That's what overemotional crybabies do. It's cruel to fans and it's inexcusable. Anyone who has ever erased their gallery is an asshole. No exceptions.
This journal is also sort of a Reading Comprehension Test. If, in the near future, you see anyone (probably on Lulz.net) talking about how 'alexreynard went BAWWWWW and left furaffinity FOREVER', you are duty-bound to console them about their crippling illiteracy.
I am not leaving. When someone pisses you off, sometimes the best revenge is to hang around and keep on being an annoyance to them. What I am saying is this, and I'm gonna say it real loud so it comes across clear:
MY WORK IS TOO GOOD FOR THIS PLACE.
One semi-last thing. Something happier.
Two days ago I got a fanletter on IB from a fellow named Tamino. It might embarrass him a little, but I'm gonna reprint his letter here in full because it just gave me such an übermassive case of the warm fuzzies:
"Hi -- I'm possibly strange in that I've never, not once, masturbated (or felt the urge to) while reading any of your stories. You just haven't hit my particular combination of buttons yet. But that's okay, because there's something nonsexual that your writing has huge amounts of, which is compassion.
There are times when it's really, really good to be reminded, in the phosphor of a computer screen, of all these things that I *know*, in my heart, but that get drowned out sometimes. Your writing helps. I've spent a lot of evenings recently just letting your writing wash over me, letting it remind me that things aren't so bad.
There's also another angle to why I appreciate your writing so much. I guess I'm an empiricist, in that it seems to me that the usefulness of creating art that *displays* compassion is to induce people to *live* compassionately, in their everyday lives. I think art can incite action, or at least plant seeds. In that sense, I recognize you as doing the same work as I am -- I try to spread it around by doing nice things and giving money and helping where I can and being tolerant when people fuck up. It's hard, and I get demoralized a lot, and I feel glad that I'm not alone in that fight.
I'm really, really glad that you're out there. I want to say "thank you" in some more meaningful way... do you accept donations at all?"
I told him how happy I was that my stories meant so much to him, and that if he wanted to give me money, it'd be rude of me not to accept! I made an InkBunny donation link and showed it to him, and I will shamelessly link to it here too. ;)
The next day he sent me $150.00
One Hundred And Fifty American Dollars.
My eyeballs got so big they eclipsed the sun.
I was floored. I write my stories and I put them online, and I hope they make people happy, but I never could have expected this. Beyond the money (which is definitely nice!), this is the biggest compliment I have ever been paid as a writer. This means that my words made enough of a difference to a fellow furry that they felt compelled to do this for me, unsolicited. I am unable to describe the validation I feel from this.
Because of this, I want to say something to all the people out there who hate me for being me. All the people who call me a furfag and a pedo and a fatass neckbeardy loser, etc. All the people who talk endlessly about how unpopular I am (as if that isn't a paradox):
This gift invalidates everything you've ever said about me or will ever say about me. This nullifies every baseless insult and stupid lie you could ever tell about me. Go ahead and grumble about me behind my back; it's meaningless. Because I have proof that my 'sick' stories make the world better. I have proof that the compassion, the empathy, the reasoning and the love that goes into my stories MEANS SOMETHING. You people want to troll me because I care? Go right ahead. It says nothing about me and everything about you. Go ahead and show yourself for the insecure, self-hating miserable people you are. People who are emotionally secure don't harass other people who've done nothing to them for personal amusement. Ask yourself: Has a total stranger ever done anything out of nowhere for me, purely to thank me for what I've created or how I've made them feel? If you can't say yes to that, then nothing you say to me matters.
Anyway, I wanna end this gargantuan wall-o-text by thanking everyone on FA who's ever been awesome to me. And it is the VAST MAJORITY of people here. The jerks may be annoying, but they're only about 5% of FA's total population. Most people here are friendly, smart, fun, and talented. I have made some friendships here I'll value forever. I have also seen amazing art here. Art and stories that engage my mind, my heart and, yeah, my boner too.
Thank you, artists and writers of FA. Thank you for posting your work for free, for us to enjoy. You are why I have stayed on this site so long, and why I will continue to stay. ...No matter how much this place bugs me sometimes!
To the admins, trolls and assorted douchenozzles; Ya can't get rid of me that easy, buckos! ;D
[EDIT] In regards to all the people who are calling what I draw "child pornography";
I wanna meet them in person and say, 'In the next room there is a young man who, when he was a little boy, was repeatedly raped by his father on camera. He was forced to suck cock and take it up the ass for years, was forced to have sex with strangers, was forced to keep this a secret from the other kids at school, and lives knowing that those images exist all over the internet. I want you to go in there and tell him that someone drawing a picture of a little fox with a penis is equivalent to what he went through. Also, he has a knife. Good luck.'
This is a journal that I've been meaning to write for a long time now. In fact it's overdue. The main announcement here is that from now on, all my new art and stories will be uploaded to InkBunny and not here. I've already uploaded a few IB-exclusive drawings and one story, so if you're watching me here and not watching me there, now's the time to make the switch.
Back when the cub art ban came down, I said I was going to do this. Unfortunately, I underestimated how long it was going to take for me to upload all my stuff from FA onto IB. It took quite a bit longer than I expected. But now it's all there and I'm starting to add new stuff. It's time to finally make a clean break with FA (more on that in a minute).
First I wanna let you know exactly why I'm making this announcement now. I'd originally planned to write this journal yesterday afternoon, but didn't really have the motivation for it because something amazing happened (more on that in a minute). Last night though, after reading a really damn good Dangerous Lunatics fanfic, I looked in my PMs here and my happiness fell flatter than something that is very flat:
Submission removal: This Is Not A Child
I somehow managed to facepalm and headdesk at the same time. Repeatedly.
I am not going to say which admin removed this, because at this point the admins are indistinguishable to me. I expect this kind of behavior from all of them, and my problem is with the site's management as a whole. Anyway, [Admin1] said:
"This image has been removed for violating this part of the aup: FA does not permit content containing minors involved in sexual situations. This applies to humans (Loli, Shota) or otherwise human-like characters (i.e. Cub) who are, without question, under the general legal age (18). Images or stories where the character is of questionable or indeterminable age will be up to the discretion of the administration."
And I replied:
"I cannot express in words how furious I am right now.
That drawing was specifically made to make a point: THAT IT WAS NOT A CUB IN A SEXUAL SITUATION! It was tasteful, nonsexual nudity. The kind that can be seen in any art museum anywhere in the country.
IT DID NOT VIOLATE THE AUP.
There was hundreds of lines worth of conversation on that submission. WHY did you remove it without giving me any chance to screencap or otherwise preserve it first?
WHY did you suddenly have a problem with this image now, even though it had been online for literally years?
WHY, out of all the blatantly sexual cub material that is still on FA, that you admins have done nothing about, did you remove AN IMAGE SPECIFICALLY DESIGNED TO BE NONSEXUAL!?"
Their response:
"First of all please familiarize yourself with the FA Storage policy: We provided storage for our users to keep and maintain their data on the site. However, Fur Affinity IS NOT a backup service, and we are not responsible for long term archival of user data or loss of files. We encourage users to keep regular backups and archives of their data using a service and/or storage media intended for that purpose.
Moving along it is at the discretion of the administration to make a choice when presented with this kind of content. The choice was made to remove it."
My response:
"Why was that choice made, is what I'm asking. Since you had the ability to either leave it alone or remove it, what made you decide to remove it?
I am angry at this decision because I designed the image specifically to be in compliance with the AUP, yet it gets removed anyway. I don't think that's fair or right."
They haven't responded back and I doubt they will.
Because I regarded this as one of the biggest examples of admin hypocrisy I have ever seen, I reported [Admin1] for misconduct. [Admin2] replied and said he was willing to take a look at the disputed image. Unsurprisingly, he said he'd have voted to remove it too. Here it is for you to judge. Now, maybe I miscalculated. I did, in all honesty, try to make this an image that would test people's limits, but one that, reasonably, could not be called pornography. The cub is toddler-age, sitting by himself, not doing anything sexual, and is unerect. Maybe I'm crazy, but that seems like nonsexual nudity to me. Especially when we let schoolchildren see this and this.
So, either the admins are saying that 'art has different standards, and furry art isn't art', or they're saying 'all nudity is sexual'. In which case, I pity this hyperphobic, sex-obsessed culture of ours.
But beyond my personal anger at this, there's two reasons why this incident should make you completely lose faith in this site's administration. First off, you noticed how I mentioned that they had removed an image designed to be nonsexual, despite all the sexy, sexy cub sex still on here? That's right, I'm gonna come right out and say it:
THE BAN ON CUB ART WAS A MASSIVE LIE.
When the ban happened, users were told to clean out their galleries before a certain deadline or else the admins would clean them out for us. Like a lot of other people, I refused to take down doodely-squat. Because if the admins were going to censor art at the expense of its userbase in order to placate AlertPay, I reasoned that it was THEIR mess and THEIR responsibility to clean it up. Why the fuck should I help them gut my gallery!?
But the gallery-gutting never came. And from what I've seen, all the threats that it would were BULLSHIT. My gallery is still chock full of cub porn, and I suspect most of the cub porn posted here is still here. Sure, I'm inviting them to remove my art by saying this, but I've got everything moved over to InkBunny so it doesn't matter. And what are they gonna do? Send me a notice to 'clean' out my gallery or they'll do it for me? I hope they do! I wanna watch the deadline pass without them doing anything. Either the admins are lazy, or they simply do not have the staff power to patrol galleries like they say they do. In other words, the cops are snoozing, fellas!
So let's take a step back: AlertPay steals a bunch of FA's money and says it's because our site allows cub porn. FA responds by vigorously licking AlertPay's boots and promising to get rid of all that nasty, nasty cub porn, if only AlertPay would come back to them. How's that working out, by the way? BTW, before AlertPay could even do anything to InkBunny, IB told them to GO FUCK THEMSELVES. IB did the ballsy thing. FA did the cowardly thing. It threw its users on the sacrificial alter in a futile attempt to appease a thieving bully. And then they lied to us about it. They scared us into combing our galleries for cub art, essentially making us do their job for them. A job they probably never really intended to do. The cub ban was a stunt, nothing more. And we got trampled.
But beyond the dishonesty, there's another reason why you shouldn't trust this site.
Read again what [Admin1] said about how this site "IS NOT a backup service." Wait... Shouldn't it be? I have been told before that once a submission is removed, the comments and stats are gone forever. Does this mean they don't have backups? I just checked Archive.org and we can't even find backups of our pages there. And also keep in mind that ONE admin acted as judge, jury and submission-executioner. The admins have the power to, on a whim, PERMANENTLY erase anything here.
Now, let's imagine what could happen if an admin became emotionally unstable, or if their password became compromised. With so much power concentrated in the hands of every admin, if just one of their passwords got hacked, someone could cause an awful lot of irreparable damage in very little time.
Folks, this is the equivalent of a police force with no organization, giving shoulder mounted ICBM launchers to all its street officers. Does that make you feel safe?
This site's administration is BROKEN, BROKEN, BROKEN. When I first mentioned I was going to InkBunny, people asked me, "Why? What's so bad about FurAffinity?" Well, if you have to ask, then I probably can't convince you. All I can say is that I have had many, MANY experiences with the admins that have convinced me that this is a site being run like the Wild West; sheriffs with unlimited power and no consensus between them of site policy, are wandering the site dispensing justice as they see fit. If they decide a submission of yours violates policy, they remove it without giving you any chance to argue or preserve it. When [Admin1] told me "We encourage users to keep regular backups and archives of their data using a service and/or storage media intended for that purpose.", she was basically saying, "I broke into your house and took your stuff because I felt justified. You're never getting it back no matter what. Too bad you didn't buy copies of everything beforehand."
Individual admins have too much power. And they are not using it wisely.
If this journal gets removed, it will be proof of what I'm saying.
But enough about me complaining about admins! It's time I told you the specifics of my move to InkBunny. THIS DOES NOT MEAN that I am leaving FurAffinity. All it means is that I'm not going to upload any new art or stories here. (I might still do a journal now and then.) Why am I not leaving in a huff? Because that's childish and self-destructive. I'm still going to keep an eye on things here because I have friends here I want to keep in contact with, and also because FA gives me free porn. No matter how much I hate how this site is run, that's not going to stop me from squeezing every orgasm I can out of it. ^__^
Also, please do not worry that I'm going to erase everything in my gallery. That's what overemotional crybabies do. It's cruel to fans and it's inexcusable. Anyone who has ever erased their gallery is an asshole. No exceptions.
This journal is also sort of a Reading Comprehension Test. If, in the near future, you see anyone (probably on Lulz.net) talking about how 'alexreynard went BAWWWWW and left furaffinity FOREVER', you are duty-bound to console them about their crippling illiteracy.
I am not leaving. When someone pisses you off, sometimes the best revenge is to hang around and keep on being an annoyance to them. What I am saying is this, and I'm gonna say it real loud so it comes across clear:
MY WORK IS TOO GOOD FOR THIS PLACE.
One semi-last thing. Something happier.
Two days ago I got a fanletter on IB from a fellow named Tamino. It might embarrass him a little, but I'm gonna reprint his letter here in full because it just gave me such an übermassive case of the warm fuzzies:
"Hi -- I'm possibly strange in that I've never, not once, masturbated (or felt the urge to) while reading any of your stories. You just haven't hit my particular combination of buttons yet. But that's okay, because there's something nonsexual that your writing has huge amounts of, which is compassion.
There are times when it's really, really good to be reminded, in the phosphor of a computer screen, of all these things that I *know*, in my heart, but that get drowned out sometimes. Your writing helps. I've spent a lot of evenings recently just letting your writing wash over me, letting it remind me that things aren't so bad.
There's also another angle to why I appreciate your writing so much. I guess I'm an empiricist, in that it seems to me that the usefulness of creating art that *displays* compassion is to induce people to *live* compassionately, in their everyday lives. I think art can incite action, or at least plant seeds. In that sense, I recognize you as doing the same work as I am -- I try to spread it around by doing nice things and giving money and helping where I can and being tolerant when people fuck up. It's hard, and I get demoralized a lot, and I feel glad that I'm not alone in that fight.
I'm really, really glad that you're out there. I want to say "thank you" in some more meaningful way... do you accept donations at all?"
I told him how happy I was that my stories meant so much to him, and that if he wanted to give me money, it'd be rude of me not to accept! I made an InkBunny donation link and showed it to him, and I will shamelessly link to it here too. ;)
The next day he sent me $150.00
One Hundred And Fifty American Dollars.
My eyeballs got so big they eclipsed the sun.
I was floored. I write my stories and I put them online, and I hope they make people happy, but I never could have expected this. Beyond the money (which is definitely nice!), this is the biggest compliment I have ever been paid as a writer. This means that my words made enough of a difference to a fellow furry that they felt compelled to do this for me, unsolicited. I am unable to describe the validation I feel from this.
Because of this, I want to say something to all the people out there who hate me for being me. All the people who call me a furfag and a pedo and a fatass neckbeardy loser, etc. All the people who talk endlessly about how unpopular I am (as if that isn't a paradox):
This gift invalidates everything you've ever said about me or will ever say about me. This nullifies every baseless insult and stupid lie you could ever tell about me. Go ahead and grumble about me behind my back; it's meaningless. Because I have proof that my 'sick' stories make the world better. I have proof that the compassion, the empathy, the reasoning and the love that goes into my stories MEANS SOMETHING. You people want to troll me because I care? Go right ahead. It says nothing about me and everything about you. Go ahead and show yourself for the insecure, self-hating miserable people you are. People who are emotionally secure don't harass other people who've done nothing to them for personal amusement. Ask yourself: Has a total stranger ever done anything out of nowhere for me, purely to thank me for what I've created or how I've made them feel? If you can't say yes to that, then nothing you say to me matters.
Anyway, I wanna end this gargantuan wall-o-text by thanking everyone on FA who's ever been awesome to me. And it is the VAST MAJORITY of people here. The jerks may be annoying, but they're only about 5% of FA's total population. Most people here are friendly, smart, fun, and talented. I have made some friendships here I'll value forever. I have also seen amazing art here. Art and stories that engage my mind, my heart and, yeah, my boner too.
Thank you, artists and writers of FA. Thank you for posting your work for free, for us to enjoy. You are why I have stayed on this site so long, and why I will continue to stay. ...No matter how much this place bugs me sometimes!
To the admins, trolls and assorted douchenozzles; Ya can't get rid of me that easy, buckos! ;D
[EDIT] In regards to all the people who are calling what I draw "child pornography";
I wanna meet them in person and say, 'In the next room there is a young man who, when he was a little boy, was repeatedly raped by his father on camera. He was forced to suck cock and take it up the ass for years, was forced to have sex with strangers, was forced to keep this a secret from the other kids at school, and lives knowing that those images exist all over the internet. I want you to go in there and tell him that someone drawing a picture of a little fox with a penis is equivalent to what he went through. Also, he has a knife. Good luck.'
Seen But Not Heard
Reply to a comment without saying anything.
Picked But Not Seen
Reply to a comment while picking your nose and scratching your balls simultaneously.
Best string ever
Self-Explanitory.
<I have no idea what's gotten into me.>
To tell the truth, I share a lot of feelings with Tamino when it comes to your works; I don't usually find myself sexually excited by them much (since I have very different takes on kinks), but I keep looking, reading, and wanting more anyways. As I mentioned on IB, I often feel inspired and creative from your works, so even if they don't arouse me directly, they still give me kinky and fun ideas to try. :P
Yep. That image was pretty much set up as a test for the admins. One they not only failed, but they were late to the testing!!
>But I'm really glad about that last part! At least not everything's been gloom'n'doom lately.
Yesterday was a rollercoaster for sure.
>To tell the truth, I share a lot of feelings with Tamino when it comes to your works; I don't usually find myself sexually excited by them much (since I have very different takes on kinks), but I keep looking, reading, and wanting more anyways. As I mentioned on IB, I often feel inspired and creative from your works, so even if they don't arouse me directly, they still give me kinky and fun ideas to try. :P
Yaaaaaay! To be honest, when I'm writing, it's usually character before all else, then plot and/or yiffiness second. So I really like knowing that people who aren't beating off to my stuff still like it anyway. ^__^
Which is a lot of what I like, since characterization is so important to me. I once heard someone say (think it may have been you, actually) that a terrible journey with great people is much better than a great journey with terrible people. I strongly agree with this, so having good characters is a big factor in 'story quality' to me.
The issue with my writing is plot; I can make great people, but I can't figure out any journey for them to have. I'm great at role-playing with others, so I figured I'd be a great writer. But while role-playing did provide me with a lot of experience with writing and characterization, I found I had a lot of trouble making up plots and interactions by myself. Heck, even in role-playing, I find it very hard to be the 'scene setter.'
So I came up with this hypothesis; role-playing is like sex, commissions/gifts are like hand and blow jobs, and art/stories are like masturbation. They're all sort of related but being good at one doesn't exactly make you good at the others. :P
I said something similar to that (I made a road trip metaphor), but that's an even better way of putting it.
It kinda reminds me of how there are a lot of genuinely bad movies I love, simply because I either like the characters so much, or the actors are really having fun with it.
>The issue with my writing is plot; I can make great people, but I can't figure out any journey for them to have.
Sometimes I'll come up with plots, but usually my stories start with the characters and I imagine how they'd naturally interact from each other and just build everything else around that. Like, working backwards: "Okay, so HOW does a shy fox boy meet up with a spunky mousegirl ghost?" I dunno if that's helpful.
>So I came up with this hypothesis; role-playing is like sex, commissions/gifts are like hand and blow jobs, and art/stories are like masturbation. They're all sort of related but being good at one doesn't exactly make you good at the others. :P
That's... a very interesting comparison, sir!
I had a feeling you had said that. Thank you!
>Sometimes I'll come up with plots, but usually my stories start with the characters and I imagine how they'd naturally interact from each other and just build everything else around that.
But I have trouble even coming up with good interactions. Or, at least, interesting ones. A lot come across as mundane, slice-of-life type situations, probably because I'm a rather contented, "low-impact" person myself who wouldn't mind sitting around and playing video games with my friends all day. :P
But I'm going to see if I can make things work. With your recent help over on IB, I came up with a sorta dark little mind game to get me in a more 'literary onanism' mood; pretend I'm the sole survivor of some global disaster and the only working piece of equipment I have is a word processor. :P With nothing to do but write and nobody to write for but myself, I think it should help me get past a block or two. And if any of the finished stories look good enough for public, I'll upload them to IB!
>That's... a very interesting comparison, sir!
Thank you, again!
Hey, slice of life stories are fine too. Minus the fantastical locations, the Bartleby series are a completely plotless bunch of stories about a kid and his friends hanging out. ;)
>pretend I'm the sole survivor of some global disaster and the only working piece of equipment I have is a word processor. :P With nothing to do but write and nobody to write for but myself, I think it should help me get past a block or two. And if any of the finished stories look good enough for public, I'll upload them to IB!
The end-of-the-world thing sounds like a damn good idea. Polish and proofreading should be for others, but the core of the writing should be for you.
True, but memorable things happen in them. At the very least, they don't usually depict "typical" days, at least as far as the audience is concerned. Most of them involve going out to new places and trying new things!
>The end-of-the-world thing sounds like a damn good idea. Polish and proofreading should be for others, but the core of the writing should be for you.
Thanks. :3 That's what I'm banking on. I figure, hey, if I can doodle things for no one's pleasure but my own, why can't I write things? Especially considering just about everything I draw involves dialogue or text in some way.
Something occurs to me: you may want to try some fanfiction first.
If you're havving problems coming up with scenarios, why not one that's already premade? I did a lot of Rescue Rangers fanfiction before I switched to working with original characters. Fanfics are kind of like a batting cage or driving range; a way to practice without worrying about any score. ;)
My only issue with fanfiction is that I feel kinda "bad" about using characters that aren't mine, even with permission. Unless I know nearly everything canonical about the characters, I feel I'm doing them injustice, especially if it turns out I contradicted something in their canon. I actually worked out quite a bit of the plot of some Bartleby fanfiction I wanted to write, but I never really got around to starting it because I wanted to go back and read and take notes on everything that happened in the canonical stories, just so I'd get everything right. :P
...sometimes literally! >:3
"Let's see what the results of that test were. You're a horrible person. That's the results of the test. Wow. We weren't even testing for that. But there it is. Horrible."
As for hat fanletter... wow. Just, wow. I've only heard that happen once before to another internet artist, and it still amazes me. O_o
I would have bought her a bouquet of knives and sleeping pills. <rimshot>
>there was a big fight, and I got banned, no questions asked. Not one of my "friends" messaged me asking if I was okay; some of them even congratulated her.
<rolls eyes> That sounds about right. Human nature is sadly predictable sometimes.
>As for hat fanletter...
I got a fanletter from a hat? ;)
>wow. Just, wow. I've only heard that happen once before to another internet artist, and it still amazes me. O_o
You think you're amazed! I'm still bouncing in my seat like a toddler at Disneyworld here! XD
Where'd those drums come from? ,'=3c
>I got a fanletter from a hat? ;)
...funk'n'wagnall. >w<;
>You think you're amazed! I'm still bouncing in my seat like a toddler at Disneyworld here! XD
*chuckles* Well, have to say you deserve it; I've met big-name artists before who didn't. Like this one writer online, had a ridiculous ammount of stories written, and everyone asked reviews from her... but she was a total bitch. Worse, she was a total bitch who disguised her bitchiness under the name of constructive criticism. Other people THOUGHT she was a bitch, but at the time, I was the only one who called her out on it.
...Argentina?
>*chuckles* Well, have to say you deserve it; I've met big-name artists before who didn't. Like this one writer online, had a ridiculous ammount of stories written, and everyone asked reviews from her... but she was a total bitch. Worse, she was a total bitch who disguised her bitchiness under the name of constructive criticism. Other people THOUGHT she was a bitch, but at the time, I was the only one who called her out on it.
Don't be afraid to speak truth to power! And yeah, I try to be approachable and honest with people. If they ask for criticism I'll try to give them the kind I'd want to receive, with equal amounts of praise mixed in.
I do agree with you, however, that the delegation of authority around here is far too broad and there is a provable history of it being abused.
Good luck over at IB. I'm not too active there but I'll see ya from time to time.
TRUE, TRUE, TRUE. However, I have donated to this place. I'd like to at least get that money's worth.
>Good luck over at IB. I'm not too active there but I'll see ya from time to time.
I'm liking IB because it it what it's trying to be: a place for art and stories. There seems to be a bit less socialization than here, but also FAR less dickery.
Hosting ain't cheap!
It is, yes. I blame AlertPay more for the ban, but I still think FA wasn't honest in how they handled the whole affair. I also think the admins are seriously inconsistent. I have no problem with complying with posted rules. What I don't like is when I comply with the written rule and am told by an admin, 'the written rules don't matter; you're in violation because I say so'. Either have an AUP, or have there be no rule but what individual admins think. It's unfair to users when the admins' actions do not match their words.
>thank God inkbunnys around now for ya, though
Amen. I dearly hope IB stays small and just concentrates on art and stories.
for example; i was suspended for a few days for posting a 'call out journal' and had no way of defending myself when it was just a warning to others of a tracer.
then i reported someone for doing the same thing and the admin told me that it was allowed 8/
Yeah, I knew they wouldn't succeed in getting others to remove their own art. Honestly, if it's good art (like yours, except that THAT might be raising the bar too much...), WHO would delete their own art/stories/animations, based off of a ridiculous thing people seem to forget: It's the Internet. Only 3 rules apply.
1. Rule 34/63: No matter what it is there is porn of it. For every male/female character, there is a female/male counterpart.
2. If you post it, they WILL come. If you delete it, they will post it AGAIN.
3. Rule 145: If you take it seriously, then gtfo. Please. Before you hurt yourself.
If looking at a picture of a nude child is illegal, shouldn't all parents be arrested for changing a diaper? If drawing a picture of a nude underage FICTIONAL NON-HUMAN character is illegal, how the HELL does Disney and Warner Bros. get away with it? Why don't they just accept that the Internet is THE ONLY THING THAT CAN'T BE CENSORED? The Internet, and it's art, will live forever, no matter how much you try to squash it. We're just that fucking stubborn. And that 'deleted' picture, well, [u]I[/u] wouldn't delete it. But I'm not an admin, unfortunately-- Or is it unfortunate? If they're that fuckin' dumb, I don't want to associate myself with those idiots.
If any mods are reading this, and I'm sure one will eventually, remember this: Trolls are still here. Lurkers are still here. Pirated software is still here. Give up. You're fighting an uphill battle. And that was your last bullet, genius.
I FUCKING LIKE THAT SENTENCE.
>If any mods are reading this, and I'm sure one will eventually, remember this: Trolls are still here. Lurkers are still here. Pirated software is still here. Give up. You're fighting an uphill battle. And that was your last bullet, genius.
Eh. I dunno if I'd agree with that. In the face of an uphill battle, I don't just give up, I fight harder. Of course, I'd rather that be my attitude and not that of those with too much power. :/
How the hell did you get to such a depraved position where you even considered such actions to be "okay"? Viewing a child or drawn counterparts of a child as a sexual object is horribly twisted and wrong. Please seek out psychological help immediately.
Viewing a midget or drawn counterparts of a midget as a sexual object is horribly twisted and wrong. Please seek out psychological help immediately.
Viewing a toaster or drawn counterparts of a toaster as a sexual object is horribly twisted and wrong. Please seek out psychological help immediately.
:)
2) midgets don't have the right to a sexuality?!
3) The toaster won't complain about being raped.
The problem , Reynard is that cub porn in majority seeks to SEXUALLY REPRESENT CHILDREN INTELLECT in fictional characters.
You get turned on by furry characters that look and ACT and THINK like children!
THAT is why people think it's fucked up!
When you draw porn of adult furry characters , you figuratively put the brains of adult humans in their head
When you draw cub porn , you put CHILDREN brains in their head. ON PURPOSE and then put them in a sexual context that normal children should never be put into.
you get turned on by a simulation of a kid having sex, and THAT is not only fucked up , it's actually criminal in several countries.
So no , FA won't warn you before removing that sort of stuff from your account , because they're covering their asses.
But they're looking at the actual baby, instead of a picture, so that makes it WORSE!!!1
they don't have a diaper in one hand and their dick in the other.
THAT'S what the difference is...
Congratulations. In six years on Fur Affinity, this is the single stupidest thing I have ever read. Ever.
If this is my "last bullet" as you say... I'm going to shoot down this outrageously pedophiliac comment. Let the zombies get me. I taste like bacon.
Why?
So I take it you've never read one of macgyver's roleplaying comments?
Also, you've said you think the argument is stupid, but you've somehow neglected to make any actual refutation. You could try pointing out differences that invalidate the comparison, or clarify moral arguments defining exceptions to the rules. But you haven't. You've just said the argument is stupid without anything supporting YOUR statement.
So... I'd say your comment is, itself, one of the stupidest things I've read on FurAffinity. I'm not going to say it's THE stupidest because, let's be honest, there is far, FAR worse.
When you have a picture of a cub doing a sexual act, some people like it because it gives them the sexual fantasy they desire. When you change a diaper on a baby, you do it because the diaper is dirty, that's it. The two are not comparable because the reasons behind them are completely different. A diaper isn't changed because people want to look at a baby's genitalia, it's changed because its unsanitary and unhealthy to sit in your own waste for too long and they want the baby to stay healthy.
Shocking, isn't it?
There are two problems with this:
1) Parents have to look at children to change diapers, it's a necessity. There's no necessity value to pictures of nude children. Given that parents have to interact with their nude child to some extent for the child's health, the law must make concession to allow this interaction. Conversely, since there's no direct benefit to the child for someone interacting with nude pictures of the child, it's much easier for social mores to eliminate this interaction and not cause suffering to the child or to society.
2) Parental interaction with the nude child is not reproducible to a mass audience, and is reasonably non-sexual. Nude pictures of a child are reproducible to a mass audience, and are much more likely to be sexual in nature.
"If drawing a picture of a nude underage FICTIONAL NON-HUMAN character is illegal, how the HELL does Disney and Warner Bros. get away with it?"
The assumption is that the disney characters are sufficiently removed from the human-norm, and sufficiently non-sexual in appearance and behavior, that they won't be construed as sexual objects by the ordinary person. That said, furries aren't normal. I'd love to suck Robinhood's roguish cock.
"Why don't they just accept that the Internet is THE ONLY THING THAT CAN'T BE CENSORED? The Internet, and it's art, will live forever, no matter how much you try to squash it."
Both untrue and related. Deep packet inspection technology, at the router level makes it much easier to censor the internet. This is a technology China is deploying. For all intents and purposes, China has been very successful at censoring the internet. I will grant you, there is a small minority that can get around the Great Firewall, but they are a minority. If China's firewall technology were global (ref: Australia debate last year) then access to most any 'banned' content would be terribly difficult to obtain.
As per the internet living forever, this is patently false. Think of how many publically accessible things that are permanent on the internet truly are permanent stores. Let's say I'm a furry artist (big stretch, I know, I don't have an artistic bone in my body). I post my art on VCL, FA, and Inkbunny. 2 decades down the road do we really think all three sites will still exist? I don't. After that the only copies, if I'm a very popular artist, might be on people's drives like Kaa's. If I'm not a popular artist, well... let's just say permanence on the internet is far more tenuous than it appears.
That all said, I believe that banning cub art is silly, but my reasons are very different, and to be frank, have been made by AlexReynard already.
If you disagree, I'd like to know why. It's my belief that a belief is not properly developed until its been tested via debate of some kind. If my beliefs are wrong, then the only 'polite' thing to do is point that out to me.
The only thing I can offer is to poke at the grain of truth hidden in (what I presumed to be) a joke. This is an exaggeration obviously, but I liked this sentence because it points out that any laws criminalizing looking at an image presume that the government can know what you're thinking. Why couldn't a person look at a picture of a naked child with nothing but parental-type affection? To criminalize looking at that image, the government is saying that you must have evil intentions. I have a problem with that. I'm all for prosecuting actual child abusers, but I can't in good conscience support any law whose principles biol down to thoughtcrime.
IMHO, if something, by itself, causes no harm, it cannot be a crime. If some behavior sometimes leads to a crime, that's not enough reason to criminalize it, because anything can literally lead to anything.
Just because a given image-type is banned does not mean a presumption of knowing what your thinking. There are other reasons why a given form of media might be banned, specifically correlations. Let's say I do a study and find that people who fuck turnips look at cow porn, this is a statistical correlation. I can then say with authority that people who fuck turnips look at cow porn but I cannot say that cow porn causes turnip fucking. Similarly, I think its safe to say that a statistical correlation exists between people who look at drawings of children fucking and pedophiles, but I cannot say that drawings of children fucking cause pedophilia.
Now, if I were to conduct a 2nd study that proves a causal link between cow porn and turnip fucking, then I could say with authority that cow porn causes turnip fucking. From there, I can then make a case that banning cow porn would reduce the incidence of turnip fucking in society. Similarly, if a causal link were shown between drawn child-porn and pedophilia, then the case could be made that a ban on drawn child-porn would reduce the incidence of pedophilia.
That said, I have never in my life seen a study showing a causal link between drawn child-porn (or other child-porn not involving real children) and pedophilia. Because no such link has been proven, we cannot resolutely claim that banning drawn child-porn will reduce pedophilia. Because a ban on drawn child-porn cannot be claimed to have any socially positive effect, my default ethical judgment is to allow it in deference to maximal social freedom.
Not to prove that its a thoughtcrime.
A thoughtcrime is a law designed to control how people think. Art is a media designed to stimulate the mind: It either engenders particular mental states or activity, both of which significantly influence how we think. Allowing or disallowing art also influences public opinion of that art, thereby influencing how people think about that art. If banning a given type art can be shown to have no positive social effect (as proven above), then banning it must be designed to either stop its influence on the mental states/activity of people or to influence public opinion of that art, hence the ban is designed to modify how people think, and hence is a thoughtcrime.
Since drawn child-porn cannot be shown to have a causal link to social detractors, and hence banning it cannot be shown to have a positive social effect, and since drawn child porn is an art, then banning drawn child-porn is a thoughtcrime.
FLAWLESS VICTORY
That's pretty dang airtight! Bravo, sir!
So true! Hitler was expelled from art school, so we should imprison or execute anyone who gets expelled from an art school for the safety of all Europe! :P
that is the most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. Period.
I really hope you're a troll, because the fact someone as stupid as you is breathing the same air as me is quite disturbing....
Parents in general (except for the sick oens who SHOULDN'T have children) , don't get sexual gratification from changing a soiled diaper!
CUB PORN IS expressively made FOR sexual gratification of pedophiles! (because yes , you get turned on by representations of minors in sexual situations)
And I have yet to see a Disney movie with full frontal nudity on a minor .
You can't be serious.
Butthurt is now a popular expression. Popular expressions CAN be used in informal situations.
Welcome to the real world.
This more or less exactly what I wanted to say to everyone (minus the bits about the personal art, because my art/writing is most assuredly not as good as yours).
This is -perfect-.
Addendum: You could totally write for Cracked. Just sayin'.
That sentence makes me a happy. :)
>This more or less exactly what I wanted to say to everyone (minus the bits about the personal art, because my art/writing is most assuredly not as good as yours).
Oh, p'shaw! I only got as good as I am by writing for myself and not giving a shit who was better/worse than me.
>Addendum: You could totally write for Cracked. Just sayin'.
Hmm. Possibly, but I'm bad at doing research. And they're all about facts 'n stuff.
Crap, I meant to type 'headbox'. *adds Psychonauts to his list of games he's bad at quoting from*
>Oh, p'shaw! I only got as good as I am by writing for myself and not giving a shit who was better/worse than me.
I meant in terms of length and eloquence.
>Hmm. Possibly, but I'm bad at doing research. And they're all about facts 'n stuff.
They're also all about assorted funny/interesting things, like how in The Dark Knight, the scene where Batman flips the Joker's semi truck end over end wasn't CGI. It was a real semi truck and they flipped it the fuck over.
Also...I donated the meager contents of my PayPal to you. I felt like I needed to do my part. Go buy yourself something nice.
Well, as nice as you can manage with 8 dollars and 4 cents.
Dangit, I was gonna quote The Milkman, but it's been too long snce I played it for me to remember any good lines.
>I meant in terms of length and eloquence.
Well then, yes. No one online is better than me. <prances about narcissistically>
>They're also all about assorted funny/interesting things, like how in The Dark Knight, the scene where Batman flips the Joker's semi truck end over end wasn't CGI. It was a real semi truck and they flipped it the fuck over.
I knew that, and I also knew that most of the stuff in Inception isn't CGI either. God, I love when directors understand that doing it for real LOOKS MORE REAL!
>Also...I donated the meager contents of my PayPal to you. I felt like I needed to do my part. Go buy yourself something nice.
>Well, as nice as you can manage with 8 dollars and 4 cents.
<eyes bug out> REALLY!? Aw, man! <hugs you> Thank you so much, amigo! I can't thank you enough. ^__^
Hey, I think I'll go on amazon and get that Cracked.com book!
That just made me think of GARBAGE DAY!
>I knew that, and I also knew that most of the stuff in Inception isn't CGI either. God, I love when directors understand that doing it for real LOOKS MORE REAL!
I KNOW! Apollo 13 even used the Vomit Comet!
Also, did you know that originally, the briefcase in Pulp Fiction was going to contain the diamonds from Reservoir Dogs?
><eyes bug out> REALLY!? Aw, man! <hugs you> Thank you so much, amigo! I can't thank you enough. ^__^
*meeps and is hugged* It's just eight dollars...*blush*
"No!!"
BANG
"Hahahahaha!"
>Also, did you know that originally, the briefcase in Pulp Fiction was going to contain the diamonds from Reservoir Dogs?
<blinks> That... makes... sense!
>*meeps and is hugged* It's just eight dollars...*blush*
Hey, it allowed me to buy that Cracked book for about thirty cents! ^__^ <huggles you>
Yup. :3
>Hey, it allowed me to buy that Cracked book for about thirty cents! ^__^ <huggles you>
You're welcome, then. ^^
Also, hooray for hugs. More hugs need to be given nowadays.
Happy 'spot the potheads' day, by the way. My personal tagline for today is "Dongs, not bongs."
Absolutely! Humans are mammals and touch is a physical need for us just look food and shelter!
>Happy 'spot the potheads' day, by the way.
Ooh! I hadn't even realized.
It's also Hitler's birthday, if memory serves, so be sure to hug a Jew!
>My personal tagline for today is "Dongs, not bongs."
If someone on this site has not done art of someone making a dong into a bong, I will be surprised.
>If someone on this site has not done art of someone making a dong into a bong, I will be surprised.
And now I'm imagining a bong sticking out of Xander's crotch.
I'd assume though that if you wanna smoke or drink in Hell, it'd give you all the positive effects you want and none of the negative consequences. Like, being high but still clear-headed, and no hangover or addiction.
When I first finished Portal 2, for instance, it was a better high than any chemically-induced one I've ever felt.
You've summarized my feelings in a nutshell.
ETCH-A-BRA!
<shrug> I'm sure if you're polite, no one will mind you lurking. After all, what's an art gallery without patrons?
Also, what had you been planning to submit?
You can encrypt the PDF, of course, and then they'd most probably have to loose the formatting at least to be able to copy it, but if they're just going to put it into their own manuscript format, that would be something they'd do anyway.
That said, PDFs can be a lot prettier than DOC/RTF so it's unfortunate they don't allow them.
tl;dr: Using the weak and feeble access controls of PDF gains you nothing.
and alertpay should not be what we are using here anyway if they are going to shaft us. I've said that personally form the start of all this.
art is about freedom, not control.
but I don't really like inkbunny, it's well, too clunky to me. but I digress.
I spend more time on streams mostly anyway.
It took me a little while to get used to it, but I have to say, it is so much more peaceful-feeling than FA, I can't even convey it. It's the difference between a hot, muggy day and a cool breeze.
so you got used to it?
good to know.
,
the coup de grace of this site what do you think it'll be? Paying to host one's own art on this site?
People know that trains and buses have less rapetastic security measures than airports; why would they continue to take airplanes if there weren't these good reasons to? The TSA gets away with all this bullshit because, for most people, the decrease in convenience caused by it is less than the decrease in convenience of taking the alternatives. For you, the inequality is reversed, but this is not the case for the majority of travelers.
That simile is dumber than something that's not very smart.
I've been across Kansas and the Texas panhandle - Mom described it best: "That's the most nothing I've ever seen in one place."
-- Contributing to topic drift since 1996
As for the admins having too much power? Well, perhaps. Considering I haven't encountered it myself, nor have had any friends that encountered problems with it - note I said friend, not watchers or those I watch - I haven't had the chance to see it myself in action.
However, saying that without backups of the site that it is impossible to undo the damage of a rogue/compromised/angry admin is exaggeration. Most people I've talked to keep back-ups of their own of their works, and comments can always come again. The mistake is in trusting another person to do all the work in keeping it safe for you.
Um, no it isn't. You're basically saying that comments are completely valueless and that if wiped out by accident or malice, 'oh well'.
It's like if you said that a store shouldn't bother having locked doors, because if someone steals their goods, it's not the store's responsibility to keep its shelves stocked. What?
If something is important to a person, they should take steps to hold onto it. Only having a single copy of what is important is more or less asking fate/destiny/chance to wipe it out. If you have the chance to protect it, and you choose not to, it might not be solely your fault, but it is partially your fault.
If it is the fact that the site doesn't have backups that bothers you, then that is another beast indeed. However, another point to put forth. As a site that is free to use, unless you put money into it, I would say you have little voice as to how it is set up.
- It won't let me use underscores in my user name.
- It claims that my password contains a dictionary word when it does not.
- The captua required several tries to get one I could see.
If their website is run as competently as it was programmed, I foresee you coming back here. Or maybe staying. Huh.
So use spaces, dood.
>- It claims that my password contains a dictionary word when it does not.
Okay, that's weird.
>- The captua required several tries to get one I could see.
Hey, I don't have a problem with IB making it difficult to join. Maybe it'll keep out the people who just want to make troll accounts on a whim.
>If their website is run as competently as it was programmed, I foresee you coming back here. Or maybe staying. Huh.
Give it a chance. It's a little difficult to get used to at first, but so far I haven't had any complaints (at least none I can think of at the moment, and that's still saying something).
The items I mentioned are not a "make it difficult to join" issue. They are a "basic competency" issue. These are first year college student mistakes.
I've learned from experience not to judge others by their mistakes, but by their responses to their mistakes. If you bring this up and IB gives you the brushoff, then you can freely be pissed at them. ;)
This was the image they said could stay: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/3730730/
This was the one they said should be removed, or qualified as cub: http://www.furaffinity.net/view/4805852/
I was speechless upon seeing this.
They also pointed out a handful of others as cub that I would be inclined to agree upon, however they're *all* still in my gallery. It was over a month and a half ago that the note was received by me, yet they've still not done anything about it, even when an admin scanned my gallery and specifically pointed them out. I don't know what's going on here XD
It wasn't "had one" of your submissions removed, but eight individual submissions. And in each case, the admins involved asked you to bring your gallery in line. We didn't banhammer you, we didn't treat you poorly. In fact, given the number of admins involved, I think we treated you pretty fairly.
That said, please check your notes.
>They also pointed out a handful of others as cub that I would be inclined to agree upon, however they're *all* still in my gallery. It was over a month and a half ago that the note was received by me, yet they've still not done anything about it, even when an admin scanned my gallery and specifically pointed them out. I don't know what's going on here XD
None of this surprises me.
I'm not sure why I bother, really. No matter what I say or do, I and the rest of the site staff are going to be the bad guy to you.
Your comments did not, in any way, address the fact that an admin nixed a submission that was arguably not cub porn, while giving the okay to a submission that is cub porn. That was the incompetent judgment call I was referring to.
>I'm not sure why I bother, really. No matter what I say or do, I and the rest of the site staff are going to be the bad guy to you.
It's not that simple. If you won't acknowledge the reasons why users like me feel that way, we will continue to feel that way.
Am I missing anything? That's the journal boiled down.
No administration is perfect, nor will I defend the flaws that the administration has, because I am aware of them. However, we have stated long ago that any cub art images, if found on the site, would be removed. Your image was removed. And now you're upset... but I'm not entirely sure why. It violated the rules. You /knew/ it violated the rules. We gave warnings. We gave several warnings. You posted about the warnings. You knew about them. What's /not/ to understand about this?
Now, I'm going to be blunt: if you think the ban on cub art was some massive lie/cover up... frankly, in my personal opinion, you're an idiot. I know this is not good PR on my part, and I know I'm criticized against not being Dragoneer, Ph.D in Choosing the Right Thing to Say™. But stop breathing conspiracy theories, stop refudiating... whatever that the hell that means... and make a choice. If you do not like FA go to Inkbunny and enjoy the services they provide. We've stated our facts, and we've stated them plainly. If you choose not to believe them that's a choice that you yourself have made. We didn't cater to AlertPay. In fact, they royally fucked us and several thousand dollars of donation money over. We tried to work with them, but they refuse to contact us.
Again, I hope that you enjoy the service Inkbunny provides. As a consumer, you have a choice. And I respect you making one. However, I draw the line and conspiracy bullshit theorist. No, we didn't kiss Alertpay's ass, and no, I will not show you my birth certificate.
Thanks,
Dragoneer
>We're not a backup service.
Do you keep backups of user data though? Like, in case something got corrupted or a hacker got an admin's password, would you guys be able to restore data that was erased?
>Your image was removed. And now you're upset... but I'm not entirely sure why.
Was I unclear?
>It violated the rules.
No it didn't.
>You /knew/ it violated the rules.
No I didn't.
>We gave warnings.
Not that images designed to comply with the AUP would be removed without any consultation.
>What's /not/ to understand about this?
How an image that I designed to be nonsexual was removed without warning when other blatantly sexual cub images are still up all over the site. That is what I do not understand, sir.
>Now, I'm going to be blunt: if you think the ban on cub art was some massive lie/cover up... frankly, in my personal opinion, you're an idiot.
Thanks for adding that "in my personal opinion" part.
>However, I draw the line and conspiracy bullshit theorist. No, we didn't kiss Alertpay's ass, and no, I will not show you my birth certificate.
Oho, that last bit's funny!
But see, 'conspiracy theory' does not automatically equal 'crazy and wrong'. For instance, one person might say "I think the Bush administration caused 9/11 with remote-controlled robot planes," and another person might say, "I think some people in the government might have had foreknowledge of the attacks and failed to act on them." One of those is an unreasonable hypothesis, based on nothing, and the other is a plausible hypothesis (whether correct or incorrect), based on the available facts.
Now, you guys banned loli/shota in response to other countries' passing lawsagainst that kind of material. Fine. I don't have any reason to doubt that. But am I incorrect that cub art was banned as a reaction to various companies saying they would no longer handle FA's money? And this was an act of attempted concession? It looks for all the world to me like FA basically said, 'Look, we'll ban this art you don't like if you'll take our business'. Am I wrong about that?
Also, how is it a conspiracy theory to call the ban itself a lie? The evidence speaks for itself: Admins say a ban will be enforced; the ban is not enforced. Or if it is, it's enforced so haphazardly as to indicate that no one is keeping to an agreed-upon set of rules. A lie does not have to be told knowingly; it only has to be untrue. Regardless of intent, the results are the same. I am not accusing the admins of concocting a grand scheme to lie to the users. I'm just saying they aren't doing what they say they would. That's a lie. Am I wrong?
You can call my essay a bunch of conspiracy theories, but guess what? That's not actually an argument. It's not a defense of your position, and it's not evidence of anything. I could call you a green wombat and doing so wouldn't change the fact that you're a purple Digimon.
All I've done is present things the way I see them. If I'm wrong, I'll admit it. But you have to prove I'm wrong, not just say that I am.
INTERNET POSTER OF THE YEAR RIGHT HERE
As opposed to the "deal-with-it.jpg" response? At least he put some thought into what words he was going to use. >.>
Ooooooh, I get it now.
ohyou.png
Although I've disagreed with you many times, Dragoneer -- loudly -- and although I've had my differences with FA, I will concede this:
FA allows a writer to post stories about adults, from an adult perspective, with a sexual or political explicitness that many other sites would reject outright.
That I was able to post a story like "All Roads Lead to Winter," without complaint or censorship, says a lot about FA. I might not be happy with many aspects of the site, but I have to respect that one.
Mark
I fully expect to be hearing horror stories about Ink Bunny someday as well. It's just a matter of time. So I don't go moving from site to site just because admins are doing this kind of stuff. If you can post stuff on Ink Bunny that you can't post here, then it's good that you have an account there. But I wouldn't stop posting what you can here, because part of your audience here is not going to be watching Ink Bunny as well. And you'll miss out on a lot of new watchers if you don't maintain an ongoing presence here.
My policy is to recognize that admins are dictators. They're under no obligation to be just or fair. And the stuff you post on their site isn't yours, it's theirs. They can and will delete on whims. Not because it's the worse thing on the site or in your gallery, but just because some spiteful person complained about it and drew their attention to it.
As this is pretty much what you can look forward to anywhere you go on the net, I try to live within the restrictions on any site I'm using. I don't rant if something seems unfair. No point in it, really. It's not like the admins care if you're pissed. Some may even take perverse pleasure in it.
So, if they remove something of mine, I just find some other place to put it. And then I continue using the site for whatever good I can get out of it. At least, until the admins become so anal as to make the site totally useless. Then I pack up and go. But I think FA has a long, long way to go before becoming useless.
Anyway, I just wanted to point out the futility of looking for fairness on the net, and to suggest that you'll have less frustration in the future if you don't expect altruism among web site administrations.
Anything they allow you is a gift they're not required to maintain. Any site can pull the rug out from under you at any time. It's best to be prepared that anything or everything on your FA or Ink Bunny site could just one day be gone with no warning. So it's a good idea to save comments you wouldn't want to lose, either by screencapping or by saving the HTML source.
On the net the wise rule of thumb is trust no one to back up anything. Always keep your own back ups and be prepared to move things somewhere else when admin nonsense happens.
How to put this succinctly...?
I disagree.
That's all I have to say other than 'if you don't like FA, go to IB'.
It's like the other day when I was eating a burrito from Taco Bell and someoine came by to mention I DON'T LIKE TACO BELL.
Okay? Then don't fucking buy it. Let me enjoy my fake, greasy ass Mexican food in peace.
idk have fun at IB, which I don't like, and which is why I'm not there.
FA costs $1,695 a month to run. We're a big site, and have upwards of 10,000 users on at a time during peak hours. That's a lot. Inkbunny costs under $300 a month to run (per Greenreaper), and I don't imagine SoFurry is that much more. Which is great for them, because they've got low overhead which is easier to pay.
We could drop our overhead, too... save money, at the expense of each paying taking a minute plus to load. It sucks, but that's where we're at. Of the other payment places we had talked to nobody'd touch loli/shota/cub art. Too risky, not worth it.
It's easy to fund a site when it's a server (or two) most, or when you don't need a 200mbit pipe.
In other words; Did the cub ban change anything in the long run?
And yes, the cub art did change things. Companies have been negotiating with us.
Okay. I sincerely wish you good luck with that. If I complain about FA, it's because I do genuinely like this place despite its flaws and I hope that it can improve.
>And yes, the cub art did change things. Companies have been negotiating with us.
Fair enough.
However, if you do set up a deal with one of those companies, and they have someone look over the site, and that person finds objectionable porn all over the place, what do you think their reaction is going to be?
Um, I am.
A...FUCKING...MEN. Once an artist creates something it ceases to be theirs and becomes the public's, not to alter and change, but to look upon it. I never intend to remove anything I post. Not a damn thing. Everything I create will be put up for the world to see.
>A...FUCKING...MEN. Once an artist creates something it ceases to be theirs and becomes the public's, not to alter and change, but to look upon it.
I can agree with that, and I'm glad you put that last bit on the end. Ownership of art is split. Parts of it are owned by the artist and parts are owned by the audience. George Lucas has every right to screw around with his Star Wars movies any way he sees fit, because they're his. But we the viewers have every right to prefer the original trilogy in its un-screwed-around-with format if we choose.
One person I used to watch even deleted everything they ever did because 'The experiment is over. The art serves no further purpose and I'd delete this account if I could.' And what annoyed me to no end was the person's friend saying to me 'It's not his fault you didn't save it, with the experiment over you should have known it'd be deleted.' as if people doing experiments delete their work once they find out the answer.
And I hate having to clean up my Favorites List. I'm a little OCD about having it free of those "SUBMISSION ERROR" empty space, and FA's deleting favorites is a little more than difficult to work with.
I hate that feeling too. I would never delete my gallery unless I was literally forced to.
>One person I used to watch even deleted everything they ever did because 'The experiment is over. The art serves no further purpose and I'd delete this account if I could.'
WOW, that's pretentious.
I think you should read the 13th edition of the Graphic Artists Guild Handbook: Pricing and Ethical Guidelines. It'll inform you of your grievous error on copy right and fair use laws.
I feel kinda bad for you; but massive congrats for getting the $150!
"This journal is also sort of a Reading Comprehension Test. If, in the near future, you see anyone (probably on Lulz.net) talking about how 'alexreynard went BAWWWWW and left furaffinity FOREVER', you are duty-bound to console them about their crippling illiteracy."
"I am not leaving"
Sorry to hear about your crippling illiteracy.
I ask because there's no difference between that and comparing a drawing to actual child pornography. No, really. People like you are no different than Jack Thompson.
People like you keep telling me that drawing what I draw is 'just wrong'. Well then, show me HOW. Prove to me how drawing a cartoon causes real-world harm. And no, you feeling disgust is not equivalent harm to a real child being abused. You call Jack Thompson crazy, and rightly so, because he condemns video games purely on what he believes is true, even though no evidence exists to confirm his beliefs. He believes video games incite people to commit violence. People like you think certain types of porn incite people to commit sex crimes. Even though every reputable study on pornography has never found this to be true (Some research even suggests the opposite is true).
You have every right to hate me and be disgusted by what I draw. I don't care about your personal opinion of me. But you cross a line when you say I should be stopped from creating what I want. What proof do you have against me that Jack Thompson doesn't have against video game makers?
yes but one key difference drawing what you draw is illegal in the usa, because so many pedafiles who end up attacking children jrk of to drawn porn then they want the real thing.
when you jack off to the child you are wishing its reall, hoping you can fuck it in real life just like any one when they jerk off to a hot man or women. how ever when i play gta jump the car off a bridge make it do 15 flips land on a cop car then explode.... there no way i would ever want to be in that car
2) "when you jack off to the child you are wishing its real" "there no way i would ever want to be in that car" Ahh, here's the problem, you're assuming you think the same way I do. Well good news! Maybe when YOU jerk off to child pornography you're wishing you could have sex with a real child, but I prefer imagination only when I wank. Which leads into the things I jerk off to and sometimes wish were real--like making a car jump off a bridge, do 15 flips, land on a cop car, and then explode. That shit's awesome.
RIGHT BACK ATCHA!!! XD
Go on, deny it. Denial is the first step to recovery from Hitleriasis.
also its SPRING TIME FOR HITLER
3) CITE YOUR GODDAMN SOURCES. Oh wait, you don't have any because it's bullshit. Thanks!
Did it ever occur to you that there might be a REASON why I draw cub porn instead of human children? Because I don't want human children. For starters, I prefer how furries look. For seconds, I don't masturbate to real child porn because I don't want to look at it. I do like kids, and I think kids are cute. But I also think kittens are cute. I don't want to see pictures of someone raping a kitten. I'm against actual child abuse as much as anyone else. Can you understand that, if I like something, I might not like seeing it abused?
But with a drawing I know that it doesn't exist. I know that I can create a character and give them any kind of personality, backstory and emotions I want. I can imagine a cub with adult-level reasoning and emotional maturity. Since it doesn't exist, and can't exist, I can imagine it any way I want. I rarely if ever masturbate thinking about real people, because that just makes me feel uncomfortable. I can't not think about how they'd feel if they knew I was jerking off to them, and that creeps me out.
You kill people in video games because you know they're not real and that it's a safe way to let out those impulses. I jack off to fictional characters because I know they're not real and that it's a safe way to let out those impulses.
If you would be offended if someone called you a murderer for playing GTA4, I ask you to just try and imagine how I feel being accused of wanting to rape children. How would YOU feel to be accused of that?
Am I an asshole for deleting my old gallery (PanicintheStreetsofLondon) and making a new one under my current name (Omny87)?
And yes, I put all my pictures from there to here, give or take a couple.
*eats confetti*
I rarely do myself, even if they get full of troll comments, because, hey, that's entertaining reading.
Try the "But naked=/=porn thing with any court if you got caught with a picture of a real child.
Then you disgust me and you have my unending contempt. Seriously. I was proud of that drawing and the discussion that picture generated. You took that away from me. For what reason? What reason did you have?
I don't think I could possibly convey to you how much I hate the attitude people like you have of, 'I don't like seeing this, therefore I'm justified in taking it away from somebody else who does'. The smugness sickens me.
You're not even an artist. Your gallery is full of nothing but drawings other people have done for you, mostly for free. What makes you think you know anything about art?
>Try the "But naked=/=porn thing with any court if you got caught with a picture of a real child.
If you can't understand that a drawing is not a real child, then you are mentally unsound.
Amazingly enough, that was exactly the point my drawing was trying to make in the first place. The irony would be hilarious if it wasn't so jaw-droppingly stupid.
You're also wrong. There are plenty of books full of naked baby photographs. Plus, artists like Sally Mann have done photoshoots of their own nude children, and have shown them in books and art galleries. The movie Jersey Girl has a scene showing a close-up of an infant's vagina, and it was rated PG-13.
Nudity only equals porn in a mind that has very corrupted ideas of innocence and inappropriateness.
In other words, I am unambiguously calling you the sick-minded one. Your mind turned a completely innocent image into something filthy, and so you took away something that didn't belong to you with no justification other than your own emotional reaction. You ought to be ashamed of yourself.
I hate child molesters. But hating them doesn't give me the moral justification to screw over people who aren't child molesters. It doesn't give you that moral justification either.
Your hatred of pedophiles does not make you special and it does not make you moral. It also apparently doesn't make you smart.
I am not trying to be special by hating pedophiles. I just hate people that fill up sites with child smut. There are tons of people like me.
Let's imagine that the AUP said 'No pictures of apples'. I then post a picture of an orange. A user reports it for being a picture of an apple. An admin removes it because they think it is a picture of an apple. Another admin agrees that it is a picture of an apple. Objectively, it is not a picture of an apple, and will never be one, no matter how many people say it is.
I posted a nonsexual cub picture. I don't care how corrupted your imaginations are, it's still nonsexual. If your mind sees it as sexual, then the problem is in your mind.
>I am not trying to be special by hating pedophiles. I just hate people that fill up sites with child smut. There are tons of people like me.
There are just as many people who hate furries. They hate that there are sites that allow furry porn. Does this give them the right to shut down FurAffinity?
The second response frankly doesn't matter because I'm not the one that decided to ban cub porn. I'm just a user helping the admins enforce the rules. Plus, they banned it not because they didn't like it, but because there were issues that arose because of it.
I ask you: What was pornographic about my submission?
>The second response frankly doesn't matter because I'm not the one that decided to ban cub porn. I'm just a user helping the admins enforce the rules.
Do you also patrol FA making sure no one posts image macros? Or multiple photographs of the same subject? I doubt it. You didn't report my drawing purely out of a sense of good citizenship. By your own admission, you did it out of bias. You reported my drawing because you had a personal reaction to it, admit it.
>automatically a troll
Nice logic, Mr. Knight in White.
Oh, is it now?
I do report image macros or multiple photographs, but it's much easier to search "Cub porn" and report every submission of that then to search through every single picture to find if there are multiples.
So what you're saying is that context determines if something's pornographic? Does that make this porn? (It's from Wikipedia, so don't worry.) It's a photograph of an eight-year-old girl taken by Lewis Carroll. A lot of people have accused him of pedophilia, yet the opposite is true. During his time, taking pictures of naked children was a common hobby, and not considered sexual at all. In fact, children were a common photography subject precisely because they were considered so innocent. Nowadays, we look at children the same way Muslim men view their women.
So does that image, posted on a public, all-access site like Wikipedia, become pornography now that I've linked it here?
>I do report image macros or multiple photographs, but it's much easier to search "Cub porn" and report every submission of that then to search through every single picture to find if there are multiples.
Oh, so you're an all-around snitch then. Good for you.
That's the difference between you and Carrol. One is a legitimate artist and the other draws smut and tries to defend it on the internet by claiming that it's art, complete with trying to disguise it by going LOOK IT ISN'T PORNOGRAPHIC THERE'S NO SEX IN THIS PICTURE.
Yeah, I'm a horrible snitch for helping enforce the rules on the site where they have trouble maintaining because of porn like you draw. I'm sorry that I'm sticking out for the good of many instead of a little group of kiddy diddlers. :P
Oh yeah. You're an objective moral defender alright. [Sarcasm self-test complete.]
Try the "But naked=/=porn thing with any court if you got caught with a picture of a real child.
>I had a buddy in my tech school (AIR FORCE TECHNICAL TRAINING) get arrested for a year for having shit on his laptop similar to this "innocent cubporn" that you're talking about.
Then that's all the more proof that this society has lost its ability to be reasonable in any way about pedophilia and all the more proof why people like me ought to speak up when people in power can't tell the difference between what's innocent and what's porn.
>FA was covering its funding, run a website with a shitton of traffic and then come back and bitch, until then, shut your damn mouth
Funny how you think you're going to tell me what I can and can't say.
What the dick is a 'slong' anyway?
Awww, that's cute how you think that makes your life more worthwhile.
>and don't brood over FA like you do.
So you're not really here? I'm imagining you? Oh, good! Now I'm imagining you with a black guy's dick in your mouth.
Okay, Mr. Special, you WRITE the way a high-schooler talks, okay?
Apostrophes.
Also, most of your 'reasons' why my argument were bad were just you insulting me. You didn't give me anything of substance to reply to, so I didn't.
LMAO! That is the single most babyish thing I think I've ever read on this site. Are you into age regression or something?
Here, this is you: "your art is terrible! get aids and die! you suck!"
See? Anyone can say that. To anyone. It's like you're saying nothing at all. Sweet Jesus, do I ever pity you. I would honestly rather get cancer and die than to be so blind to my own behavior.
Anyway, it's time to play one of my favorite games. It's called: If You Don't Respond To This Post, It Means You Admit To Being A Child Molester.
and my giant pulsating and turgid erection~
If you're sincere, thank you. If you're sarcastic, my condolences on your diminished attention span.
That focus and that perspective would allow us greater nuance and subtlety, greater emotional and technical range in expressing our own personal impressions, our hopes and dreads. So why not take advantage of that freedom, and see how far we can push the imagery and ideas that we call Furry?
Mark
You seem sincere and polite, so I hate to have to tell you that I believe this is one of the dumbest ideas I have seen on this issue.
Writing cub-themed stories does not make me any less of an adult. And just because a story features cub characters does not preclude it from having mature ideas and themes. I touch upon all those things you mentioned (the quest for purpose in life, political struggles, the ebbs and flows of relationships, the challenges of aging, the inevitability of death) in my stories and in my journals.
All that a ban does is restrict what the artist can and cannot do. Restriction is only ever good for the artist in the sense that it gives him something to rebel against.
Rebellion is worthwhile, but the means of rebellion can vary. Writers can become very good at writing "between the lines," and this can add richness and weight to a story. It can teach them techniques of subtlety and irony.
And restriction itself, although daunting at first, can help writers to focus their attention on issues that really matter to them. For instance:
>>I touch upon all those things you mentioned (the quest for purpose in life, political struggles, the ebbs and flows of relationships, the challenges of aging, the inevitability of death) in my stories and in my journals.
If that's the case, then you have no need to restrict yourself to cub stuff. You can branch out in many ways, push yourself, and remain true to those issues without having to limit your readership. In that sense, restriction from outside can force you to overcome restrictions from within.
I never said that restrictions are freedom; I said that restrictions can be useful, in that they often force us to examine what really matters to us. (And that includes not only restrictions of policy, but restrictions of form, as well. Think of sonnets, for example.)
If, as you said --
>>>>I touch upon all those things you mentioned (the quest for purpose in life, political struggles, the ebbs and flows of relationships, the challenges of aging, the inevitability of death) in my stories and in my journals.
-- Then you still have complete freedom to deal with these issues, and you have the added pleasure of adapting your adult experience to this material. You can write about anything -- the places you've lived; the jobs you've held; the politics and moods of your country; the women you've loved, lost and won (or the men, if you prefer). There is no limit to these things, and they can all be conveyed through an adult's perspective, with adults in the roles.
In short, if someone takes away your ability to write about children, then why not use the opportunity to see if you really need to write about children? You might be restricting yourself without necessity.
After all, if you value rebellion, what better chance to rebel against your own assumptions about yourself?
Why do you assume that, because I usually write from a cub's perspective that I don't or can't write from an adult's?
>In short, if someone takes away your ability to write about children, then why not use the opportunity to see if you really need to write about children? You might be restricting yourself without necessity.
Firstly: if someone takes away something of mine, my reaction is going to be to reflect on it later and kick their ass first.
Secondly: I'M NOT RESTRICTING MYSELF.
>After all, if you value rebellion, what better chance to rebel against your own assumptions about yourself?
I'll be honest; I can't understand huge chunks of what you're talking about.
Good luck with Inkbunny!
Yeah, I'm not laying fault here, I'm just not getting it.
>Good luck with Inkbunny!
Thanks, though.
Yes, I know. That's why I brought up the topic.
I could be honest with you and offer a guess -- and only a guess -- as to why this kind of thinking seems foreign to you and to so many other furries, but I'd probably be wrong and do you a disservice; and even if I hit the bullseye, you would most likely reject anything I said. So it's best that I drop the subject, and this conversation.
>>>>>Good luck with Inkbunny!
>>Thanks, though.
You seem to have missed the irony in that sentence. :/
No, no, no; lay it on me. I pride myself on being willing to listen to things I may not want to hear. If it's true, I'll own up to it. If it's not true, I'll say so.
>You seem to have missed the irony in that sentence. :/
Yes I seem to have.
Unfortunately, the vast majority of people are a bit too dense/dumber than rocks to get irony, or anything less subtle than a flashing neon sign...
Here's hoping alienating a huge chunk of their user base works out for them in the end. I'm sure Inkbunny doesn't mind the stupidity and drama.
However, I asked him what will happen when those companies find out the admins are not really enforcing the ban. He hasn't replied yet.
Kindly shove a shotgun up your ass and in an even kinder manner... pull the fucking trigger
Worth enough to warrant a response? Well, talk is cheap, and I've got plenty to spare.
That seems superfluous. Dare i incquire on the need to determine the difference between "human self-aggrandizing contest of who has the biggest mind penis" and any other kind of "self-aggrandizing contest of who has the biggest mind penis"?
I should add that my mind penis is quite large. And barbed... and it has teeth... sharp, gnashy teeth... for tearing a part vaginas... FUCK YOU MY PENIS IS A JAGUAR.
That's hot.
<sexy invulnerable murder-suicide ensues; blood and cum swamp the floor>
My point is what is alexerynard trying to prove? That he posted something that he felt wasn't violating FA rules? That he was unjustly persecuted? If that's the case his main defense is HIS interpretation of the TOS and/or AUP. Being the artist in this situation I hardly think his opinion is objective, do you? HE claims HIS art was 'TASTEFUL' but this is according to HIM.
My problem is that its obviously a personal issue and in this journal he is victimizing himself. It is HIS dirty laundry, just because he is folding it does not make it stink any less.
That is why he is leaving--because we as users can no longer trust the Acceptable Use Policy to be an accurate guide to what is acceptable content and what is not.
That being said do you want to play sight the source? Ok lets play:
>>Minors in Sexual Situations
>>FA does not permit content containing minors involved in sexual situations. This applies to humans (Loli, Shota) or otherwise human-like characters (i.e. Cub) who are, without question, under the general legal age (18). Images or stories where the character is of questionable or indeterminable age will be up to the discretion of the administration.
http://wiki.furaffinity.net/index.php?title=AUP (FA AUP)
You are correct in FA's policy of minors in sexual situations. If we go over to the TOS....
>>FA staff reserve the rights of the following:
>>* to remove content (submissions, journals, comments, etc.) not in accordance with site policy
http://wiki.furaffinity.net/index.php?title=TOS (FA TOS)
Right... and who gets to decide whether or not something is in accordance with policy... OH RIGHT! FA DOES! If FA finds that the art has a sexual quality then what happens to said art is up to the admins.
Alex is with his right to terminate his contract with FA, it says so in the FA Submission Agreement (SA). Sooooo he can go blow himself for all I care.
The parrot is OBJECTIVELY dead, and the shop owner insisting otherwise only reflects poorly on him.
Oh and please learn to construct a proper analogy. Death is a state of being that can be measured and defined. HOWEVER the amount of sex appeal a picture has is relative to the person viewing it and thusly it has no precise definition. You reflect poorly on yourself, halfwit.
I think the biggest sticking point is that not having a solid definition of what is and isn't acceptable is unfair. Leaving it up to an individual user/admin to define if something is or isn't within the TOS/AUP is rather unfair to users, since we have no way of knowing what a given individual may deem appropriate or not.
Not saying the art was or wasn't, but any decision on something needs to be made based on PURELY objective factors, since there is no way to appeal a subjective decision.
Also: Likewise already watching you on IB. I don't frequent it much, but you've already had a little correspondence with a guy named Humbug on that site. That's me, in case you didn't know already.
Thank you!
>Also: Likewise already watching you on IB. I don't frequent it much, but you've already had a little correspondence with a guy named Humbug on that site. That's me, in case you didn't know already.
Silly cat! Of course I do. Heck, you drew that picture of Samantha eating you, and her, out of existence.
And...okay. Just didn't know if you'd make the connection, so I figured I'd clarify just in case. ;)
Awwwww! Thank you so much! <hugs> I actually worry sometimes that I'm too cerebral and not emotional enough, so that really means a lot to me.
>And...okay. Just didn't know if you'd make the connection, so I figured I'd clarify just in case. ;)
No problemo.
Yes
"Do you feel it represents your best work"
Yes
" Do you feel as if you've performed at the peak of your mental and linguistic capabilities? "
Yes
"Do you think that post will help contribute to a more positive global community? "
World peace on the way via this post.
*point* There's a diaper pail over yonder...
yes
Yes
JAMES VAN DER BEEK.
The other half of the problem is that, however much you feel otherwise, your art 'is' porn. Sometimes people come and look at your art/stories as media or life lifters (as in your rich friends case) but frankly, most people look at it to masturbate. The don't go to a museum to masturbate to Michaelangelo's works (Ok, someone, somewhere probably does. but most people don't). I totally understand your point of view, and that picture is quite clearly not porn; but it's basically hosted on a porn site, and the Admin presumably recognised that people must have, and will have, masturbated to it.
I also tend to fall in favour of the admins when you talk about the vast quantities of cubpronz still up. There 'are' only a limited number of admins. And it seems wilfully cruel to say "Fuck them, it's their problem, they clear it up". Sure it's their problem, but if Alertpay catches wind that CP is still up and really does cut payment to FA, then it becomes everyones problems. All of that unarchived work flies out the window and thousands upon thousands of people are left without their homesite and without means to contact friends (the very reason you specified you're sticking around here, to keep in touch)
That said, I completely agree with you on the Admin's power. The ability for a single person to completely erase a submission and any text surrounding it, without warning, is just wrong. People are biased and admins are no different. It's like giving your local bobby a bazoka and free reign; sure they'll hold up the law eventually, but you're going to get one who one day feels that maybe that street would be better without that house at the end.
There should be a delay system, Admin clicks delete and you get a message saying the submission will be deleted in four days. Equally there should also be some form of temporary backup so that when an admin blows up the black guys house, there's enough of the rubble for it to be rebuilt when the other admins disagree with her.
P.S Kudos on getting such a friendly....and rich watcher!
I recognize that, and my drawing was a challenge to exactly that. The stated purpose of the picture was to point out that a drawn child is not the same as a real child. But I drew him nonsexually nude as a test of the admins. I wanted to see if they could acknowledge that concept, or react emotionally to it: "It's nude so its porn!!!" Needless to say, they failed.
>Go as nearby as Amsterdam and you'll find breast-shaped stressballs in the local conveniece store and publicly known red-light districts. Everywhere in the world sex is something fun and should be enjoyed
I kinda wish I lived in Denmark. -__-
>sex is like crapping! we all do it but no one must admit it!
LMAO! I've noticed that too and thought about doing an essay about it once.
> that picture is quite clearly not porn; but it's basically hosted on a porn site, and the Admin presumably recognised that people must have, and will have, masturbated to it.
That's also something I wanted to challenge. Context alone can make an innocent image into pornography? Porn is defined by who masturbates to it? So people outside of the image can change the artist's intent? I understand that it can, but I do not believe it's the artist's fault.
>And it seems wilfully cruel to say "Fuck them, it's their problem, they clear it up".
You're damn right it is. Willfully cruel, I mean. I'll own up to it when I'm being a prick about something.
>Sure it's their problem, but if Alertpay catches wind that CP is still up and really does cut payment to FA, then it becomes everyones problems. All of that unarchived work flies out the window and thousands upon thousands of people are left without their homesite and without means to contact friends (the very reason you specified you're sticking around here, to keep in touch)
If AlertPay catches wind, I do honestly believe it will be the site's fault for saying they are going to enforce a ban that they are not enforcing in the way they claimed. And hey, maybe they are. I'm only going by what I've observed. I'm aware I could be wrong on this point. However, I'm also aware that, even if AlertPay or some other company does agree to work with us, what's to guarantee they won't have a problem with some new class of images next? We shouldn't be putting ourselves in a position where our balls are in the hands of someone who can crush them on a whim.
>There should be a delay system, Admin clicks delete and you get a message saying the submission will be deleted in four days. Equally there should also be some form of temporary backup so that when an admin blows up the black guys house, there's enough of the rubble for it to be rebuilt when the other admins disagree with her.
COMPLETE FREAKIN' AGREEMENT. Checks and balances are essential.
>P.S Kudos on getting such a friendly....and rich watcher!
Thanks!
There's a general paranoia about "child porn," because it's hard to define (same as regular porn), but I don't think we loose much as a culture by erring on the side of caution in this case. (Although, again, calling this particular image pornographic is pretty absurd.)
It's nice to hear at least one person say that. Thank you!
>even if it did have bad French grammar.
Why I oughtta...
>but I don't think we loose much as a culture by erring on the side of caution in this case.
Actually, I think we do. What most people see as 'erring on the side of caution', I see as 'a moral panic as bad as the Red Scare'. We're gonna look back on this time in history with shame. A time when 'protecting the children' was a pagan god upon whose altar we could not sacrifice artistic freedom, privacy rights and innocent people's live quickly enough. Child abuse is real, but we will come to realize that we've blown to problem up to such ludicriously exaggerated proportions that it can only be called mass hysteria. This society is far more concerned with protecting the myth of 'childhood innocence' than protecting real children.
I've masturbated to images of sleek vehicles because I thought their shape was sexy. Do we need to censor publicly-displayed depictions of vehicles since they can be seen as attractive to me? Did I change the intent of the advertiser/creator? And you're right that it's not the artist's fault. "There are many things innocent in themselves, however, such as toys, movies, games, video games, candy, money etc. that might be used for immoral purposes, yet we would not expect those to be prohibited because they can be misused."
ROTFL! FUNNY YOU SHOULD SAY THAT! http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/2247708/
>"There are many things innocent in themselves, however, such as toys, movies, games, video games, candy, money etc. that might be used for immoral purposes, yet we would not expect those to be prohibited because they can be misused."
If they were, all media would be outlawed due to Rule 34.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FopyRHHlt3M
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5BaOvM9jXKg
And who's the troll again?
^__^
Firstly, holy hell that was a long journal. I think it'll all soak in subconsciously, but I got the gist of it all well enough.
Secondly, aside from maybe...<goes and checks> two or three people, the only ones actively making fun of you put probably a sentence worth of effort into it. Guess you were right in that trolls/morons are supremely lazy.
Secondly, the few who managed to get in more than one sentence all have presented a flawed argument and, more to the point, used hyperbole in their arguments; "this is THE worst" or "they are the sickest" or "he's the greatest admin ever". (please note, I know that those phrases may not have been used, I'm paraphrasing here)
Word to the wise, gentlemen: if you intend to make an argument and have it carry real weight, avoid absolutes and weighted statements. Else you show your cards plainly to everyone at the table and, thus, have no right to be pissed off when everyone calls your bluff. I've got to give them credit, the majority of the words used by the admins has stayed away from using hyperbole...when they're quoting the rules. Admittedly, the only admin I've seen comment here is Dragoneer and he's even said it himself that he's not to be taken seriously because he tends to just call people idiots and then knock off for lunch.
Man...that guy's kind of a case. With all of his pride in this website showing and his relentless and bullheaded resolve to run a website built on gay/bi/straight/beastial/inflation/snuff/Nazi/torture/rape/cruelty/mutilation/hyper/macro/squishing/domination/people-who-give-him-free-art-because-he's-*the*-Dragoneer/furry website and to pay for it out of pocket is AND STILL have money left over to pay for commissions...well, it's kind of breathtaking, really. He's also not the saint his fans think he is.
Oh yes, good sir, I know a dirty *diiirty* little secret about our wonderful site owner that happened...oh, maybe two months ago about the infamous FA hacking? I'd share, but frankly, I'd get called a liar anyhow and probably be attacked for daring to sully his wondrous and holy name.
Okay, see that?
THAT is how you make fun of someone.
Even then, I'm just being petty and tired. I'll go back into my happy little quiet solitude now.
Oh... and please...PLEASES ever so kindly get over yourself you pretentious sack of wasted space.
I'd like to hope it was well-paced enough to get through. Also, thank you for tl;dmbtra (too long; did my best to read anyway) ;)
>Secondly, aside from maybe...<goes and checks> two or three people, the only ones actively making fun of you put probably a sentence worth of effort into it. Guess you were right in that trolls/morons are supremely lazy.
VERY. I think that's the most exasperating theng about them. I'll laugh at an honestly good, clever, biting insult. But how many times can you be called a pedophile before you just yawn at it!?
Also, interestingly enough, people have apparently been linking to an old journal I did and are commenting the hell out of that one too. Quite a few were just like, 'You're sick!' and I brushed them off. But several have taken the time to write out angry disagreement that is at least well thought out. I've had some very interesting discussion over there. Not all of it positive, but at least civil. I welcome that.
>Word to the wise, gentlemen: if you intend to make an argument and have it carry real weight, avoid absolutes and weighted statements.
Amen.
>Admittedly, the only admin I've seen comment here is Dragoneer and he's even said it himself that he's not to be taken seriously because he tends to just call people idiots and then knock off for lunch.
>He's also not the saint his fans think he is.
I will give Dragoneer massive credit for being civil in his posts (especially considering that I've unashamedly been a buzzing mosquito to him). I have never known him to be a cruel person, and he's not stupid. On the other hand, I wouldn't hire a ballerina to move pianos. I wouldn't hire the Amish for tech support. And if FA had elections, I wouldn't cast my vote for Neer.
>Even then, I'm just being petty and tired. I'll go back into my happy little quiet solitude now.
Adios, amigo. Have fun co-opping with Alfie. Are you usually Atlas or P-body?
Actually, the flawed argument I've seen the most lacks the hyperbole of the others. People are saying that, even if the artist bent over backwards to conform to the AUP, if the admins THINK it's sexual, it's sexual, because only their opinion matters.
My refutation is: If the AUP depends entirely upon the whims of the admins as far as what is and is not in compliance, then there is NO POINT IN HAVING AN AUP. The purpose is as guidelines so artists can know what is and is not acceptable to upload, but by these arguments there IS no way to know what is and is not acceptable. What conclusion can we draw from this? Erm... MOVE TO INKBUNNY... which is what Alex is doing, so it's all okay I guess. >:3 *huggles*
SWEET HOPPING JESUS, THAT IS THE BEST SENTENCE I HAVE SEEN ON THIS ENTIRE GODDAM JOURNAL!!! You hit every nail on every head in all conceivable universes!
I'm not quite sure how to parse this. Clarification, please?
> The admin enforce the rules and can change them at any time to they're discretion, that is after all they're freedom as administrators.
Laying aside for the moment your appalling grasp of the distinction between "they're" and "their", I say again, if the Acceptable Upload Policy may change at any time WITHOUT USERS EVER BEING NOTIFIED OF THE CHANGES, then there is no point in posting the policy at all as it is not a reliable guideline on what is acceptable to upload.
Moreover, you've just said that the artist's responsibility is to follow the rules he/she accepted upon registration. At the time Alex registered, there was NOT a rule banning cub porn, so by your argument he should not be forced to conform to it--he never accepted the rule, and has in fact vehemently opposed it, as have I. I see it as cancerous censorship gradually destroying the site I originally agreed to join.
Unfortunately, as you've said, it's a private site, so there are no recall elections or other measures we can take to remove admins from power when they abuse it.
Do you think it would be worth it to pull something like the end scene of V for Vendetta and post the This is not a Cub image all over the place? I would would volunteer for posting it but it only would have an impact if many posted it. And that could be risky as it could get the posters on a black list. Since it is your picture I leave the decision to you. I would not want to embarass you by starting such in your name without asking.
On a lighter note, congratulations to being such an awesome writer and having such amazing fans.
And I deeply bow to Tamino for his generosity.
I doubt this'll get deleted. So far, I've only seen journals get deleted if they openly attack a specific user, or if they get so many comments they break the site. Hopefully it won't come to that.
>Do you think it would be worth it to pull something like the end scene of V for Vendetta and post the This is not a Cub image all over the place?
I don't think it's necessary. By removing it, the admins proved that they will disregard their own written rules on a personal whim. The AUP is a lie: the only thing that determines whether an image is or isn't acceptable is an admin's word. (And this proves it for sure).
The best, most lasting way to get revenge is to maneuver your enemy into a position where, by attacking you, they defeat themselves.
>On a lighter note, congratulations to being such an awesome writer and having such amazing fans.
Thanks for being one of them! ^__^
>And I deeply bow to Tamino for his generosity.
I'd kiss his feet if I knew where he lived! ;D
I also like that both by your journal and the move to inkbunny so you can post drawing of naked underage characters you've admitted to a federal offence (18 USC 1466A), that I might add people have been prosecuted for. In October 2010, a 33 year old Idaho man, Steven Kutzner, entered into a plea agreement concerning images of child characters from the American animated television show, The Simpsons engaged in sexual acts and then distributing them.
I like that you say you were raised by a psychopath but then choose to be sociopathic while claiming you're trying not to follow their lead.
I like how you think all your opinions are justified, no matter how many people disagree with you on what constitutes social and ethical norms.
Why do I like all of this? Because it reminds me that no matter how crappy life can be, my life will never be as lonely as yours is.
Firstly, I'm by no means an admirer of cub porn or an advocate of this thread's poster.
But in the referenced code US 2256(1) a minor is defined as "any person under the age of eighteen years"
I looked at the reference art that alexreynard posted and I don't see a person or a cartoon, painting, digital image, or otherwise rendered representation of a person.
I don't like what I see, but that's my opinion.
I will say that I'm finding some level of respect for his pointing out that people seem either unable or too lazy to read.
Let me copy+paste directly from the journal itself:
"This journal is also sort of a Reading Comprehension Test. If, in the near future, you see anyone (probably on Lulz.net) talking about how 'alexreynard went BAWWWWW and left furaffinity FOREVER', you are duty-bound to console them about their crippling illiteracy."
"I am not leaving"
Learn to read the things you're complaining about, okay?
>I also like that both by your journal and the move to inkbunny so you can post drawing of naked underage characters you've admitted to a federal offence (18 USC 1466A), that I might add people have been prosecuted for.
The prosecution itself was a clear violation of the constitution. Also, because you can't seem to figure it out on your own, I'd like to point out that prosecution does not equal guilt. That's kinda the foundation of American law.
>I like that you say you were raised by a psychopath but then choose to be sociopathic while claiming you're trying not to follow their lead.
That sentence is so vague I don't know what you're saying.
>I like how you think all your opinions are justified, no matter how many people disagree with you on what constitutes social and ethical norms.
I won't disagree that right now, it is a social norm to think pedophiles are subhuman monsters undeserving of basic human rights or equal protection under the law. However, what is 'normal' is not always right. If you're trying to argue that whatever the majority believes is true, then I'd ask you to look through a history book and see how well that belief tends to turn out.
Lemme make this clear: Being morally repulsed by me doesn't make you objectively right. Your emotions cannot transmogrify into facts no matter how deeply you feel them. Hating me does not invalidate my arguments.
>Why do I like all of this? Because it reminds me that no matter how crappy life can be, my life will never be as lonely as yours is.
Hahahahaha! You really can't read, can you? The whole last part of this journal was devoted to the friends and acquaintances I've made here. Just today I hung out with a friend of mine I've known since grade school; we saw a crappy movie and ate Taco Bell. I have traveled to Indiana, Washington, California, Texas and Pittsburgh to meet friends I've talked with online, and within a week I'll be going to Canada to meet three more. Call me a liar if you want, but my life is far from lonely.
You know what I'll bet disgusts you and infuriates you the most? The idea that a sick, lecherous pedophile like me could have a normal, happy life with close friends and family ties. My day-to-day life is probably not much different from yours. You and I are probably not much different. And you're certainly no better than me no matter how much you flap your sanctimonious mouth. :)
https://docs.google.com/fileview?id.....MTdh&hl=en plea agreement
I didn't bother reading the rest of your reply as there's really no point. I mean why validate a man who has said it's justifiable at times to rape kids any more than I have to.
I know! If you bothered to read it, you might actually have to refute my points instead of huffily acting as if faking outrage is a good enough substitution! Poor baby is so very, very offended!
>I mean why validate a man who has said it's justifiable at times to rape kids any more than I have to.
You are aware that lying about your opponent not only doesn't defeat them, but also makes you look desperate and cowardly? I've never said that, and you know damn well I've never said that. The Strawman Fallacy is literally the first one I ever learned the name of. I wonder when people will get tired of using it?
Like plenty of other people I've known, all you really have against me is your own hatred. You come on like a hurricane, posting big ol' blocks of text. But you sidestep every counterargument and ignore every point I make against you. If you were right, you'd be able to prove it logically. Saying that something is against the law is not an argument against its morality. Saying that something is 'just wrong' does not prove that it is. And saying 'there's no point to this anymore' is something people say when they have nothing left to argue with.
You disgust me for one simple reason: because I hate people who'll start a fight, then run away from it. YOU chose to comment on MY page. If you're going to insult someone, at least have the decency to not act surprised when that insult gets thrown back in your face.
"This journal is also sort of a Reading Comprehension Test. If, in the near future, you see anyone (probably on Lulz.net) talking about how 'alexreynard went BAWWWWW and left furaffinity FOREVER', you are duty-bound to console them about their crippling illiteracy."
"I am not leaving"
You sure use purty words for someone who can't read.
You are an AMAZING writer, and i enjoy those stories.
YAAAAAAAAY!!!
>Being the only gay boy in my class..., i didn't have any friends for the first 14 years of my life. I was constantly picked on, etc. so on so forth... and following the adventures of those children as they tear that controlling "Mental Health Facility" to pieces made me feel like there was hope!
I'm glad to hear the story affected you that way. I was definitely tapping into the feeling of being constantly told 'There's something wrong with you' when your heart insists there isn't.
>You are an AMAZING writer, and i enjoy those stories.
Thank you, thank you, thank you.^__^
"u" ==> "You're"
"stoopid" ==> "stupid."
I'm always happy to help with punctuation, grammar, and spelling!
You sir get a GOLD STAR for reading skills! ;D
>I might frame that.
It's too bad the admins don't. I wouldn't mind so much if they didn't have any reliable submission guidelines if they'd at least be honest about it. The whole point of having written rules is so that you don't have everyone running around making their own personal judgment calls.
April recently posted an Etsy listing for a wall decal (lol) about how every woman should breastfeed and no man should be circumcised. Yes, In the same decal.
Not only do the two things have pretty much NOTHING IN COMMON, she was soon flooded with emails and comments from angry people saying that she's for the mutilating of underage boys and that not breastfeeding a child is abuse and neglect. (Some people even went as far to say that all Rabbis were pedophiles and suck blood from newly circumcised penises and that one lady called CPS on a lady who formula-fed)
Needless to say, the entire community facepalmed.
It really shows the crazies in the world who are so viciously intent on controlling every little aspect of people's lives, even when its none of their fucking business.
I personally don't like circumcision, and I dont like cub porn, along with scat, watersports, and most other things. But here's the turning point: I don't give a shit
I really don't care what other people are into because it's none of my fucking business, and it really doesn't affect my life at all. What kind of a lonely person are you, if your entire life's journey is to keep people from posting what you don't like on the internet. It you dont like it, why the hell are you on the internet.
Blood makes me vomit and pass out, and yet there are people all over ere who post mutilation and gore and all that. but you don't see me bitching like a lonely old basement-dweller. Because it's their art and business and not mine.
All this aside, I left FA a LOOONG time ago. I really just come back to check up on your escapades<3 c:
I dont have 150 bucks, though, sorry. But I'll make you a sandwich.
You sir, in one fell swoop, have just said the most sensible thing in this whole goddamn shit-fiasco of comments.
Seriously. You have the perfect attitude: I don't give a shit. If more people could just take that to heart, we'd all have to deal with a lot less frustration. People who hate my art/words frustrate themselves by trying to make me stop, and they frustrate me from having to deal with them accusing me of wanting to rape real children because I draw goddam cartoons.
There's a sense of entitlement behind it. "I am entitled to an internet where I never have to see anything I don't want to see." Well, no. You aren't. In some ways, these people remind me of the radical Muslims who riot because someone drew Muhammad or someone burned a Koran. They're frustrated because they think they are entitled to a world where no one is allowed to insult their faith. Well, no.
The fact of the matter is, it's A GOOD THING that we're forced to see and hear things we don't like. It's why I support public school education even though they don't teach the kids a damn thing: they still need to learn how to get along with other people. Other people will always like things you don't like. You can either accept that this is as much of a fact as the law of gravity, or you can make yourself (and everyone around you) miserable for the rest of your life by trying to change everyone else to suit you.
Here's the facts: I draw cub porn. It's not illegal. It's in no way equal to child pornography. And I will never stop drawing and writing what I damn well feel like. I am lucky as hell to live in a country that lists free speech as one of the primary rights granted to all its citizens. I'm sorry that so many of you want a world where art and opinions you don't like are censored. I'm also sorry that so many of you don't think that you are in favor of censorship, because you see it as morally justified. But you are.
And if anyone else accused you of wanting to rape your pets because you draw 'sick furry art', you'd react to them exactly the way I do to you.
Oh, but it's okay when you do it...
...
...
...
Sorry my reply to you went all It's Morphin' Time into Super TLDRForce EssayZord.
>All this aside, I left FA a LOOONG time ago. I really just come back to check up on your escapades<3 c:
Hooray! I like that you enjoy my shit, and I also like that word 'escapades'. :3
>I dont have 150 bucks, though, sorry. But I'll make you a sandwich.
Is it a Reuben? :9
Thank you! it probably came with dealing form the conservative bitching in my family, as well as the general bitchiness of people here. Eventually I'm just like...why do you bother? That, and my boyfriend's family has gotten me to be a lot more chillaxed 8D
>In some ways, these people remind me of the radical Muslims who riot because someone drew Muhammad or someone burned a Koran. They're frustrated because they think they are entitled to a world where no one is allowed to insult their faith. Well, no.
Reminds me of how some guy in Florida actually burned a Koran, saying that it's a cult. And some Muslim radicals in the Middle East beheaded some folks to show that they...weren't violent. Lolol
>It's why I support public school education even though they don't teach the kids a damn thing: they still need to learn how to get along with other people.
Same here. The only reason I have my political and social ideas I do now is because I've actually been exposed to varying degrees of opinions and people. As opposed to the Byrds (which I had that argument with a long time ago), who are all homeschooled and, as a result, are the most stick-up-the-ass tea partyers ever. Because they havent heard anything else except the ramblings of their mommy and daddy.
(except I have to say, the son has the most chance. After that argument, he actually chatted me about my beliefs and asked me stuff, which is what I MOST admire in people who have differing opinions. They bother to ask.)
> Is it a Reuben? :9
My dad made those the other night. I dislike sauerkraut, corned beef, and I'm not fond of Swiss. So yeah, you can have the one I didnt eat. :P
For a while here on FA I was like, "THERE ARE IDIOTS EVERYWHERE!!! PANIC MODE!!!" until I realized I was just causing myself undue frustration. The hardest part of dealing with people online is to know when to end an argument. Usually a good rule of thumb is that if you cannot stop yourself from feeling anger at what they're saying, end it ASAP. Your emotions will say, "Stay in there! That person is WRONG! You must DESTROY THEM!" You gotta listen to your rational side, which says, "You could be doing something which actually makes you feel good right now."
>Reminds me of how some guy in Florida actually burned a Koran, saying that it's a cult. And some Muslim radicals in the Middle East beheaded some folks to show that they...weren't violent. Lolol
OMFG, I wrote a whole essay about this that I didn't post because I didn't need the drama. But yeah, if you react to an insult from halfway around the world by hurting innocent people, you are stupid. I don't care about cultural differences or how sacred the Koran is. If someone frustrates you, and you take out your frustration on someone who's done nothing to you, you're an honorless bully, no matter where in the world you are.
That Florida pastor? By himself, he is completely harmless. Yet the media keep giving him tons and tons of attention. He only has as much power as his enemies give him, and they are giving him plenty. If everyone ignored him, he'd be powerless. I blame the media more than him for anything that results from his silly book-burning shenanigans.
Someone smarter than me also pointed out that we ought to be glad. Someone burning a book in protest is a hell of a lot better than someone burning a person.
>Same here. The only reason I have my political and social ideas I do now is because I've actually been exposed to varying degrees of opinions and people.
Having your arguments challenged is the best thing for them. It's like sharpening a blade; the defects are scraped away leaving a finer edge. If you just hack away endlessly with a blade and don't take care of its upkeep, it gets dull.
>(except I have to say, the son has the most chance. After that argument, he actually chatted me about my beliefs and asked me stuff, which is what I MOST admire in people who have differing opinions. They bother to ask.)
<nod> I write about a lot of weird fetishes, especially in my Bartleby series. My goal is not to convert people, but just to get them to think, 'Okay, I can see why someone else might like this'. Just for them to have that moment of realizing that people who like different things are not alien beings. Sometimes it's the hardest thing in the world just to get people to accept that, even if someone else thinks a different way, they are still a human being.
>My dad made those the other night. I dislike sauerkraut, corned beef, and I'm not fond of Swiss. So yeah, you can have the one I didnt eat. :P
Yaaaay! <nomnomnom> I hate sauerkraut too. I love reubens. I do not know why.
>3) The toaster won't complain about being raped.
>.< That whole thing was a joke. I was making fun of his argument by showing that it didn't work; you could invalidate it just by changing what noun it was about.
>The problem , Reynard is that cub porn in majority seeks to SEXUALLY REPRESENT CHILDREN INTELLECT in fictional characters.
FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.
FICTIONAL CHARACTERS.
Do you understand that those two words are the only part of that sentence that are in any way relevant?
Let's make this clear here: I am against anyone who takes sexual advantage of someone who has diminished capacity. Whether that's children, retarded people, people in comas, etc. But those are PEOPLE. I literally cannot take advantage of fictional characters because there is literally nothing there to take advantage of.
>THAT is why people think it's fucked up!
And if they want to think that, that's their right! They have every right to not like it! What I'm against is when people say "I don't like this, that means you're not allowed to enjoy it."
You have gay porn in your gallery. How would you react to someone saying to you, "All gay art needs to be banned because all fags are sinners who spread AIDS!"?
You have furry porn in your gallery. How would you react to someone saying to you, "All furry art needs to be banned because furfags are sick fucks who rape their pets!"?
That is the kind of thing people say to me! To you, gay furry art is just drawings, and you KNOW that they don't harm anyone. So you would, at least, be angry if someone tried to ban it. And you would be offended if someone made disgustingly untrue accusations about you because of what you draw.
I draw cartoons. And because of that, complete strangers feel justified in accusing me of wanting to rape children. Just try to imagine how that would feel if someone said that to you. Just TRY.
>you get turned on by a simulation of a kid having sex, and THAT is not only fucked up , it's actually criminal in several countries.
So your argument is that, if something is against the law, that is proof it is immoral?
Male homosexuality is illegal in seventy-nine countries.
Now of course, you would argue that homosexuality and pedophilia are different. And they are. But that's not the comparison I'm making. You say that fictional portrayals of pedophilia are immoral. What's your justification? Because it's 'just wrong'? There are plenty of people all over the world who would KILL YOU, yes YOU, because they believe you are just as immoral and unclean to them as I am to you.
You need more than 'just wrong' to call something immoral. You need more than a personal belief. You need proof of harm. There is no proof that homosexuality is harmful. There is no proof that drawings are harmful.
I don't care if you don't like what I draw. I don't care if the entire world doesn't like what I draw. Not liking it doesn't prove that it's evil.
>So no , FA won't warn you before removing that sort of stuff from your account , because they're covering their asses.
They're covering their asses by banning cub porn. I understand that. The point of this essay was to point out that their AUP only bans "minors involved in sexual situations". My drawing did not depict a minor in a sexual situation. Nudity, by itself, is not a sexual situation. But three different admins said that their opinion mattered more than their own written rules. My drawing was in compliance with the rules of this site as they are written. Why does this site have written rules if the admins don't have to abide by them?
Here's a better question: If all the admins agree that cub nudity is not allowed, THEN WHY DIDN'T THEY PUT THAT IN THEIR WRITTEN RULES!?
Oh well, if you don't like the way they run things, either stay and fight, or leave. It makes no difference in the end; you'll still find another forum for your art, and they'll still do whatever they want with their site.
I know. Which was a dick move on AlertPay's part, which was why I didn't complain about the ban itself. I complained about how the admins implemented it. In a word: sloppy.
>Even though, I will point out that time and time again judges have been on and off about whether or not art of children having sex should be considered child pornography; some say yes, some say no.
Whether they do or not is pointless. It simply isn't. If a judge rules an apple to be an orange, would it be true? Of course not. No judge can make fantasy become equivalent to reality just because he makes a grossly ignorant, emotion-based ruling.
>Oh well, if you don't like the way they run things, either stay and fight, or leave. It makes no difference in the end; you'll still find another forum for your art, and they'll still do whatever they want with their site.
My decision is to stay and continue annoying them. They can kick me out at any time if they feel like it, I've got Inkbunny, but why should I leave on my own? That just makes things easier for them. ;)
2: While I would tend to agree, I was simply playing devil's advocate. One could argue, however, that cub porn/lolicon/etc. exacerbates the idea of child molestation. And while this is by no means true, it is certainly a point that a lot of people could rally behind, if they choose to be so ignorant.
3: Good choice. You've got my best wishes, you sick little child-fucker you ;P
I wish I had better ways of reaching people who argue totally with their emotions and not through facts and evidence. To them, nothing else matters but what they FEEL to be true. It's frustrating...
>Good choice. You've got my best wishes, you sick little child-fucker you ;P
LOL!
Stop talking like a god damn 4channer. This isn't fucking /b/. "lulz" isn't a real word and neither is "butthurt".