Suspended? I'll do you one better.
13 years ago
So, after god knows how long now, FA's powers-that-be decided to get around to actually enforcing the rule they made. Here's the note chain from three days ago:
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1285/convowu.jpg
I come back from a shower:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8716/suspt.jpg
To be honest, I didn't really expect the suspension at all- I thought the conversation was civilized enough. But apparently "I don't know your parameters, you do your job" is grounds for a wrist-slapping. The ironic part of this is that I wasn't going to even really mention anything. At most, I was planning to release a journal explaining what pictures were removed and helpfully remind you all that they're still on Inkbunny.
Lo and behold, I come back to find that a grand total of four images were removed. Four. So... every time that I get reported for something in my ridonculusly big gallery, I can look forward to this process, over and over again. One three day suspension? Laughable. A possibly infinite number of these hanging over my head because I don't have the cheat-sheet for burnable books, however...
You know what, FA? I get your message. I get it loud and clear, despite your attempts to garble it with innuendo and overcomplicated obfuscation. If this has to be a fight between FA and IB, then I'll pick the side that isn't kicking me in the shins when I'm not looking. It was one thing when it was just some users giving me shit, but with this? Yeah. That's enough.
http://img51.imageshack.us/img51/1285/convowu.jpg
I come back from a shower:
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8716/suspt.jpg
To be honest, I didn't really expect the suspension at all- I thought the conversation was civilized enough. But apparently "I don't know your parameters, you do your job" is grounds for a wrist-slapping. The ironic part of this is that I wasn't going to even really mention anything. At most, I was planning to release a journal explaining what pictures were removed and helpfully remind you all that they're still on Inkbunny.
Lo and behold, I come back to find that a grand total of four images were removed. Four. So... every time that I get reported for something in my ridonculusly big gallery, I can look forward to this process, over and over again. One three day suspension? Laughable. A possibly infinite number of these hanging over my head because I don't have the cheat-sheet for burnable books, however...
You know what, FA? I get your message. I get it loud and clear, despite your attempts to garble it with innuendo and overcomplicated obfuscation. If this has to be a fight between FA and IB, then I'll pick the side that isn't kicking me in the shins when I'm not looking. It was one thing when it was just some users giving me shit, but with this? Yeah. That's enough.
I like fire!
So apparently I'm a liar, too, which is awesome. I would like to see what more there was to this story. Spoilers: There wasn't.
By the way I miss talking to ya, wish it could have been under better circumstances.
But still, I guess I should get off my lazy ass and make an IB account then if I wish to still keep an eye on your stuff
They claim it's just to check for insecure wifi connections but the last time they did in 2009, they used it to break into connections and see what people were up to, and I don't really want to get busted for visiting a site that they believe holds child porn.
https://www.torproject.org/index.html.en
http://www.smh.com.au/technology/se.....322-1vmof.html
If it's on the ISP level, just use TOR to get around it until you can find a less crappy ISP.
This, however, is not one of those times. I have lots of issues with how this was handled, even if you were being a total asshole or something. It would still take something big to actually get a banning in that fashion, otherwise you get labelled as abusing your power to ban people you just don't like.
This something big in no way happened in what we've been shown here. You were a bit blunt, I'll give them that, but who isn't at times? Sometimes being blunt, especially over something as impassioned as this particular rule is with some, prevents people from outright losing their shit when talking about it.
What it seems to me here, and I've seen this several times over the years, is that you didn't immediately start stroking his admin ego with your first reply. He took offense to this, as admins are supposed to be gods, so he counters back as if you're just another dumb user. When you answered back with an intelligent response, he lost his shit and suspended you.
If there's more to this story, as has been stated, I'd like to know what it is. I think we all would.
On a side note, you should of sent a note back saying that you removed the content ( of course without actually removing it) and see if they leave ya alone XD. If they arent gonna sift through your gallery for the crap they want off them pretend ya did the job for them :)... TEEHEE >u>
'Course, the problem with Inkbunny is that they don't allow humans in porn-art. I dunno if you have any plans for that in the future, Nori, but I recall you doing one or two in the past.
Personally I'm slowly transferring my alliance over to SoFurry, they actually DO try and develop the site instead of posting screen shots every couple years of some beta that will never happen. Plus the community seems closer over there and I like their layout.
Can't really say I'll miss you here because like I said, already stalking you on Inkbunny X3.
They took Loli/Shota from me...I stayed.
They took cub away...I stayed
The moment they declare war on anything that isn't furry is when I'll kiss this place goodbye...or until I find something better. Do you by chance have a Skype or YIM? I've been meaning to attempt to know you but I was never able to.
First, I know about that "no underage sex" rule. It gets numerous people in trouble outside of FA, because of child porn laws that are rather global. And since FA isn't reached on another planet... they have to deal with it.
That said, the rule can be clarified and refined.
I think this whole situation boils down to micromanagement, and the lack there of on this site. FA has become too big for the administration to handle. And putting a popular/unpopular rule like banning cub and all of it's subjective nuances doesn't help matters at all. It's a rule carved in stone, with the details of what applies written in the sand. That's a horrific situation for any management team to deal with. And that they haven't hammered out something ironclad is a poor decision. But what they do have is enough in most situations.
And Nori, I love yah man, and I'm guilty of doing this too. We -know- some of our pictures are in obvious violation of the no-cub rule. And we leave them anyways. Maybe we left them with vindictive intent at the time, or maybe we just want to give the mods something to do. In this case, I can't help but think of "It's kinda like a speed limit" analogy. We know that the speed limit is XX through this stretch of road, we can drive XX+/-y without potentially getting pulled over. The mods asking us to police our own galleries as far as cub artwork that's been posted is a bit like cops expecting people to not drive 90mph in a 55mph zone. There's stuff that's subjective (read: anal) as a cop pulling you over for going 58 in a 55 zone, but then there's also the stuff that we know is wrong.
That's not to say that Bazeel didn't handle himself poorly. He strode up chest all puffed out trying to exert authority and implied very early on (within the first line of text in the body of his note, even) that he'd be more than happy to flex his administrator muscle to punish you if you didn't comply. He may as well have been trying to provoke an unfavorable response. Now if this was premeditated, then Baz is just gonna be "one of -those- mods" that everyone hates. If it wasn't, then 'Neer needs to get him whipped into shape. He could have handled things a lot better. A LOT better. He could have pointed out that the subjective material is something that the moderation team is still trying to define, and may be left up to the individual mod handling a case, but the material that is clearly involving underage characters still has to go. Then again, I'd be the sort of mod who'd wear a velvet glove around my iron fist X3
What I did, believe it or not, was attempt to do FA a service. My gallery is huge, and has a lot of varied content. If they went through and methodically removed what they saw fit, they would then by deduction have what amounted to a much more comprehensive set of guidelines as to what is and isn't appropriate.
They didn't do that. Instead, I was slapped in the face and none of the work was done. Nobody benefitted, nobody got anything out of it. What could have been helpful instead just turned into a meaningless gesture.
User reports (presses report button), moderator reviews, if it meets mods' judgment then artist is notified or gets their license dinged or what have you. They get told precisely which work is reported, it gets taken down with whatever appeal process is applicable. No gallery combing, etc.
No fuss, no muss, they get to keep their "I know it when I see it" rules and the general pattern is proven by also being how our court system works.
I'll bet they're so paranoid about questionable material that they can't bring themselves to point out which works are at fault. 8I Like George Carlin once said, "you can't define obscenity without being obscene"
but I can see why they suspended you,
rather than just removing whatever work did not follow AUP you made it more complicated by arguing about how you thought the rule was vague
and you had to have had some idea, I mean, you have warnings on a few of you pictures that say "under age"
can't you see how a moderator might have taken your refusal as an instigation in this circumstance?
that being said, yes, FA should be more specific when it comes to which picture they want removed
I suggest a flagging function that can only be used once a day
but don't go to inkbunny
the user interface is just terrible over there
i want to keep up to date on you submissions but i just can't go there.. I've tried it, and I didn't like it.
I'm sorry, you've probably already made up your mind I just felt like I had to say SOMETHING. I don't think I was very persuasive.
Also, IB's UI worse than FA's? You've got to be joking. And I'm sorry, that's what it's going to have to be.
I do still wanna commission ya. :O
Been meaning to chat you up on general principles anyhow; you sound super-fun. Will try to get that set up with you sometime, if you ever feel like chatting with a moggy. :D
Are you going to let us know here when you post, say, Chapter 14 of "Partners" on IB?
I cannot fucking log in anymore without seeing a log with one of my favorite artists going 'Fuck all of you, I'm gone'. I know its not your fault, and I'm not saying it is. I dont exactly agree with the stupid terms that came about because of some asshole decided to rat us out to the site's new sponsor and they came down on us hard, but shit, I'm loosing my watch list pretty fast now.
I have half a mind to chew out the admins myself. This is no way to run a site, kicking all your top artists around, treating them like shit. Thats just fucking retarded. But on the same token, I fucking hate the user interface of Inkbunny. Its such a pain in the ass that I dont wanna deal with it.
Looks like I dont have a choice, as much as I hate to admit it, I'll have to try IB again. In the meantime, try not to take off so soon. It may just be the act of one PMS'ing admin rather then the consensus of all of them, so try to give them another chance. Please dont just bolt off right away like everyone else seems to.
x.x
UI seemed fine to me, I just don't know anypony there. ;P
I'll have a friend relay messages to InkBunny and remain as close and civil as is feasable.
Pony stuff, pure and perfect, with space for comments and ratings. Give it a look.
Some days I wish I had the steel in my spine to join IB. And never more than today. Still... if I may supplicate myself, can I get a last reply to that note so I can type away a things while arranging for a relay.
The Admin's Constant use of NOt even Stating what's wrong with an Image and posting A 'Self IMplied' rule on people...
The Fact that you told/Asked them to point out or atleast Remove the work thereselves to Save yoruselves both trouble
That the ONe Admin Suspends you cause you can't figure what he Didn't like/GOt Reported by random user (And with possiblity fo Accident involved)
OR jsut all around the Even more Vauge Response from Dragoneer cause sich a THing even in a private chat may/May not have been noted to be made public and he didn't want this kind've heat stamping on him cause they made one of 'THoes Calls' and shit went down.
In any either or whatever sense people leaving or just flat out 'Not Posting' is helping as mucha s not Buying a game froma company under crap loads of heat cause others will do it anyways... At the most we have to get more say into When Dragoneer decides he's going to have more User input to things pretainning to 'THESE' issues instead of site Functions and other such thigns that don't even concern how his Admin staff circulates and handles trouble Tickets.
I'd like a fancy new FA too and all the nice additions witht eh Whistles and bells of DA (HAte DA'S interface) Or InkBunny which looks STRANGELY alot like the Demo FA that was supposed to be up and running last year, but Apperently the LARGE fan base that said 'Sciggles is the ONly Admin that doesn't know how to Admin' is the same group of people that says CAPCOM is the ONly Gamming company that has gone down hill in GIving the People what they want.
Weither you stay or go with actually posting work on FA le's... just say and know that We'll... NEVER ... get anythign done till Dragoneer is being 'FOrced/Setting his foot down' and Setting up a Proper Admin power belting, and stationing the Rules to something that doesn't act NOr sound liek they're llowed to cover there ass by giving VERY vauge 'THis is good/bad letters so tht the Net police crash FA in a way that would make more obvious sense for the site... you know..
Block the 'Offensive' image from all users instead of 'NOte-Remove-Ban-Apologize for over reacting (Maybe?) Repeat'. Least with all users having a 'Black Box' and that includs Guests... Ya know... no horror from the Net police, and it's a damn easy marker for the users like Me and you with Fricken HUGE galleries and we poke at it, THumbnail, Large size, small size and Lo and behold.. :D ... It don't work!
>MAKE THEM THE ADMINISTRATORS TO YOUR SITE
>???
>PROFIT
Guess I -am- gonna have to keep it on my bar somewhere.
Happy trails. :)
Sucks you won't be coming around much any more. I found a few more pictures of yours I can colour, but now there's a round-a-bout process of IB just to show you them. Oh well.
That said, for what it's worth, I apologize for any contention.
As the largest dedicated furry art site, you provide a valuable service to the furry community, and the moderators' jobs are to serve in the best interests of both the site and its users; but there are alternative websites that users are willing to go to if we feel your level of service does not adequately meet our expectations, so it is in the best interests of the administration to keep the users happy. It pains me to see so many great artists leaving due to moderators acting outside of their directive or over friends being banned who do everything they can to make an appeal but are ultimately ignored by the moderators indefinitely; or some users I've seen that unnecessarily remove content that actually complies with the TOS/AUP for fear of potential violations without even knowing for sure.
something from your veeery old stuff or something newer?
I notice though in general site moderators suck. Either they take things too seriously and get all high and mighty about a fucking free site or they don't give a fuck and make the site generally suck. No one cares to think "Hey, maybe I should just shut up, do my job, and enjoy my success."
They say it is up to the administrators to decide what counts as a violation. They said such violations being present here, but did not decide and tell you which ones. Crystal clear to me that either they were forgetting to, or they wanted to shove the responsibility of decision onto you. Which is bad conduct. That's my reaction anyway.
Btw are you leaving FA?