threw as many dogs as he did interceptions

BAM!

^

SPORTS!

He's going to hell

Dude's a terrible team leader and he sucks now, dogs or not.

He's a running back with an arm that has no accuracy

I do like watching the eagles play the falcons though, makes for a great game

Personally? I don't like sports, so that has nothing to do with my thoughts. He seems to have genuinely put in the time and effort to show he's sorry. That just puts him back to neutral to me.

He only came out and 'apologized' after he started losing a ton of endorsements. That's not an apology. That's an 'I'm sorry I got caught and lost millions in endorsements'

he did more than that. he's been actively working with the humane society, he's started all sorts of programs, and he's been using his popularity to spread awareness about the problem *shrugs* it's not that publicized, i didn't even know he was doing this stuff until a week or so ago.

http://www.webpronews.com/michael-v.....ghting-2012-03

Vicks got a long way to go before he convinces me he actually means it and isn't just trying to get back in everyones good graces.

I was really hoping he'd continue to play well and redeem himself, but he kind of sucked last year.

How does playing a good game of football redeem abusing and killing animals?

Like im just sayin he stopped, I mean what he CANT be forgiven? Why the hell not.

There's this "hang em up, guilty until proven innocent but really never innocent, never forgiven" attitude pervasive in America. It really makes me sick that people are like that... I mean this in general, not just in this instance.

Why do you care whether I like the guy or not? Can he be forgiven? Sure, I guess. It doesn't mean I'd trust him around MY dogs, or anyone elses, or let him get his own. I don't know the guy, so I really don't have a right to judge, right? All I know is, you asked. He killed 66 dogs, bashed 8 of them to death. As someone who loves animals and has been questioning their place in his diet for some time now, I just find it really hard to convince myself that someone who can commit those kinds of acts can serve a few years jail time, go bankrupt and learn a lesson. Being able to commit that sort of act..it takes a certain kind of mentality. A certain basic lack of respect for life. It's not something where you just feel bad and get better.

I hope he gets help, I hope he turns things around. Do I think it likely? No. My own personal opinion is that he's dangerous and always will be. Most serial killers start out by torturing and killing animals. I think the guys a sociopath. A lot of his actions aside from the whole dog thing lead me to believe i'm right. I don't think it has anything to do with his culture, his upbringing or anything like that.

Anyways, like I said, i'm just some asshole with an opinion. I love dogs, I know my reaction isn't really a rational one and is based on my emotions. I apologize if I insulted anyone, I was just giving an honest answer.

Redeem his image, not his mortal soul or something. People love sports heroes. They're something to rally behind and believe in. He did some fucked up things, but he served his time in jail and it's arguably a net positive that he murdered those few dogs because of all the awareness that's come out of his case and the things he's been doing since he's been released to try to salvage his image. So, yes, playing a good game of football-or more specifically the fame that comes with it- can possibly redeem him for killing animals if he uses that fame to prevent OTHERS from killing animals.

" it's arguably a net positive"
Um, no. Pretty sure most folks working to rescue dogs from situations like this would rather their cause struggle a bit rather than get attention at the cost of an animals life. Getting counseling and spending more time working on being a better person > being really good at a stupid game.

I don't think you understood what I said.

The attention that their cause gets helps more people be aware and care. Which leads to more funding. Which leads to more animals being saved. It's like the kill 1 to save 1000 sort of thing.

Not saying it's a for sure thing that happened, but it's quite possible.

Don't care how good he is in sports, he's a fucking scumbag who was incredibly cruel to animals and it's incredibly obvious he really doesn't feel sorry, so fuck him. It's people like him who help give breeds like pit bulls a horrible name.

Maybe he was a product of his environment? I mean he didnt come from a well to do place you know

I was sexually molested as a child, does that mean I would get sympathy from you if I turned around and molested someones kid? I don't care how poor he was, lots of people are poor and don't force animals to hurt each other for their own entertainment. Lots of people manage to pull themselves up out of the ghetto, or out of the trailer park, or out of miserable third world conditions without being abusive towards other people or towards animals.

I'm not trying to be a hypocrite here, either. I know the kind of abuse and treatment many animals get and the horrible deaths they suffer, all in the name of feeding people. That's why I don't buy from anyone who mistreats their animals. There's a difference between giving an animal a comfortable life on a free range organic farm and then giving them as short and painless a death as possible, and making them live in overcrowded, deplorable conditions and then dragging out their suffering.

The people who run pit fights..they know what they're doing. Its big money. They're not stupid, they know it's cruelty, they just dont care. Vick is one of those people. The dogs are nothing but dollar signs and entertainment/amusement. The whole cultural thing doesnt wash because if it really was about that, you wouldn't have as many people from that culture speaking out against vick as there were.

You'd get sympathy from being molested, despite the fact that you were messed up to molest another kid. That wouldn't mean you wouldn't be held accountable for your actions; just like Michael Vick was still held accountable for his actions. You'd still go to jail and serve your time and have to live with being a child molester the rest of your life and with the shame and judgement that comes from everyone knowing you're a child molester. But they could still feel bad for you because you were molested and it happened to influence your views on molestation. Sympathy=\=endorsing a person's actions. Neither does forgiveness=\=endorsing/forgetting a person's actions.

Also, the tangent about poor people isn't even applicable. Just because lots of people are poor and pull themselves out doesn't mean his situation didn't affect him at all. People are influenced by their surroundings, not merely a product of them. Plus, everyone's situation is unique so you can't just say "Oh, x was poor and rebounded and didn't do anything bad" and use that as proof that y doing something bad didn't have ANYTHING to do with his environment. Kitstaa wasn't saying the only reason he had dogfights was because he was raised a certain way and had no choice in the matter. People aren't robots.

The cultural thing applies because peoples' morals are influenced by their culture. Most people don't think condemn factory farms or puppy mills because they know they involve animal cruelty and are unhealthy because they were raised not to think of them that way. If you grew up in an area where adults or older kids-your role models and the people you learned almost everything about life off of- fought dogs all the time, then you might feel sad or know it was cruelty but you would see it as something that was normal. Like it was sad, but that was the dog's role. Just like it's sad, but livestock's role is to be slaughtered or race animals/show animals/beasts of burden respective roles.


I also don't think it's applicable to say Vick was into dog fighting for the money. The dude was fucking loaded from football. He didn't need the money. I'd wager it was more about entertainment, not just for him, but for all the people he grew up with. These same people who didn't think it was really wrong because of the environment they were raised in.

Also you act like all poor people, or maybe even all poor black people, have the same exact culture. Just because there are tons of black people, poor people, and poor black people speaking out against it doesn't mean that the culture he was raised in was speaking out against it. It's just that he was raised in a subculture, which was much smaller, that believed it wasn't such a bad thing. Groups aren't monolithic and it's a common mistake to view them as such. In psychology, this is referred to as "Out group homogeneity".

You make good points. I still don't think killing 66 dogs (8 of which he bashed to death) is something you do two years or however much time in jail and then recover from. I don't think any amount of cultural influence and background excuses bashing dogs to death and I think it's offensive to people with similar cultural backgrounds to suggest that their culture teaches them that it's ok to bash dogs to death. While I understand that dog fighting requires that you cull any dog that bites their trainer (they're trained to fight each other, NOT their handlers) the very fact that that mentality exists shows a basic lack of respect for the life of the animal.

"Also you act like all poor people, or maybe even all poor black people, have the same exact culture. Just because there are tons of black people, poor people, and poor black people speaking out against it doesn't mean that the culture he was raised in was speaking out against it. It's just that he was raised in a subculture, which was much smaller, that believed it wasn't such a bad thing. Groups aren't monolithic and it's a common mistake to view them as such. In psychology, this is referred to as "Out group homogeneity".

I understand that, and you're correct. That being said, if that's the kind of culture he came from, then there's something very wrong with that culture if it values life that little. There are plenty of ways to entertain yourself that don't involve cruel treatment of animals.

I don't think and I don't think many people would claim that he's "recovered" as if it were an addiction that was cured. I do believe, however, that he won't do it again because he saw how it almost ruined his life the last time. I agree with you in doubting that his mentality and opinions toward it changed. He probably still doesn't respect animal life as much as he should. He probably still doesn't think what he did was that bad of a thing, but at least he won't do it again which is what matters most.

Where did you find that he personally killed 66 dogs, by the way? I don't think I've heard that statistic before.


As for the culture comments; it is sad. Very sad how terrible some people can be.

I mean, abuse of any kind is wrong, but the shit those animals went through under his supervision or on his property was downright despicable.
He didn't seem genuinely sorry for what he did to me, and I feel like he only did that humane society work because he had to, otherwise I don't believe him at all.
I mean, whatever, it's nothing I've lost sleep over.
But as a person, no, I don't like, support or forgive him.