Here here. I so agree with your logic and statement good sir.

Huzzah!

Were you also watching what the Republicans were doing? Filibustering to prevent all progress in order to try and get Obama out doesn't deserve a reach out, it deserves a bitch slap from the populace for being shitty public servants.

You mean like the "women should be second class citizens" bills? How many of those were they, because hey, making women into second class citizens, banning gay marriage and a lot of other bigoted shit was way more important than things like jobs.

Most of the time when a republican bill got sunk, it was because it was basically "let's fuck over minorities" or they tacked onto legitimate bills unacceptable bigotry.

I don't blame Obama for vetoing the shit out of that, they were told bigotry would get these bills vetoed and yet they still tried to sneak bigotry into them.

Your politicians are doing a fine job of proving otherwise, with their clear agendas of hate and bigotry for anyone who isn't a rich, white, straight, able bodied, cis-gendered man. I don't care what you believe, hundreds of bills saying "we hate minorities and think they don't deserve basic human rights" say exactly that.

How am I being bamboozled when I'm looking at the FACT that all the republicans have largely done for the last four years is to try to pass law after law to either deny people rights, completely remove their rights or to otherwise oppress people based on gender, sexuality, disability, class, race, and any other difference they can grasp? More to the point, I only said the republicans had engaged in blatant bigotry, I did not call them "monsters" or "bigots" though the latter is arguable correct for many republicans.

Voter ID laws ARE racist and extremely problematic in other ways, for several reasons, for one there have been a grand fucking total of FOUR cases of voter fraud EVER, there is no wide spread voting fraud, it's a fucking myth. For another the primary reason for creating them IS to PREVENT people who are more likely to be democrats from voting, they disproportionately impact the impoverished, people of color, and other minorities.

To create a fair and good voting system requires not ID laws, it requires better policing of the dirty tricks used to disenfranchise voters, used to deny people their RIGHT to vote, used to basically steal votes.

http://www.alternet.org/news-amp-po.....swing-election

Four cases against:

The 1981 efforts of the republican party to "cage" thousands of black and latino voters. They're banned from doing it now themselves so they get others to do it.

The 2008 leafleting campaign that told thousands of democrats the wrong voting day. The 2004 distribution of leaflets informing people of color wrongly that they weren't allowed to vote if a family member was convicted of a crime.

The 2010 deceptive robocalls: http://www.washingtonpost.com/local.....saO_story.html The republican responsible was jailed.

There's barring "felons" from voting despite the racism in the system which see's more people of color convicted.

Vote ID laws, often deliberately written to exclude voter ID that democrats use.

Illegal voter purges that take off people who are legally entitled to vote.

Making threats to minority populaces.

Using poll watchers to intimidate and prevent people from voting.

Messing with early voting and voting days to ensure that those who need to work, aka the poorest are less likely to vote because they often vote democrat.

And preventing voters from registering to vote in whatever way they can.

All of these are things the Republican part has been caught doing. Even if all four cases of actual fraud were democrats, it is blatant that the republicans have prevented on purpose far more people from voting and specifically aimed at preventing democrats from doing so.

Before voter ID laws could ever be a reasonable idea? There would have to be an actual reason for them and photo ID would have to be widely available and affordable for even the poorest citizen.

A: Not on the level that Republicans routinely engage in, and not with Obama's encouragement.

B: I didn't call you a bigot. I said the republicans were engaging in bigotry.

C: The tiny amount of voter fraud would NOT be stopped by vote ID laws, most cases were eligible people voting twice, people who didn't realise they were ineligible and other errors.

D: Stopping ALMOST NONEXISTENT fraud is worth fucking over your fellow citizens, refusing minorities their CONSTITUTIONAL RIGHTS? I have yet to see a GoP advocate for free ID to be made available to all legal citizens, because it isn't about "stopping voter ID fraud", it's about stopping legitimate people from voting if they might vote for Obama.

There was a time when the positions were reversed, but the republicans have long since lost any grasp they had on human rights and not trying to pass bigoted laws.

Hariman, you are allowed to have your opinions.

Yet, I have to give this rebuttal -- I have my right to disagree with you. I've been through the presidential sittings of Ford, Carter, Reagan, Clinton, both Bush Sr. and Bush Jr. and Obama. So far the only Presidents that showed any forward thinking, progressive planning and ACTUAL impact were Clinton and Obama. Though I agree with Sub-Imaginati that Obama had to deal with more Republican fillibusters than Clinton. To me, that just sends the message that the Republican Party was thinking, "Our man didn't win the White House, so let's make it damn hard for Obama to make good on his promises!".

Republicans are NOT monsters, HOWEVER they clearly have an agenda that is out-moded, out of date and clearly out of touch with what a good portion of people in America want. And I believe that the time for such an agenda is past.

The people spoke, now EVERYONE -- including the Republicans -- need to get behind WORKING TOGETHER. It really doesn't matter WHO reaches across the aisle first, just do it and let's get the work done.

A quote I remember from a comedian named Rick Overton is so appropriate: "Unless the Left Wing and the Right Wing can work together, this country isn't gonna fly!"


-- Stephen

"The issue I have is that President Obama's "forward thinking" is anathema to what made America great. That's why we have high unemployment, high energy/gas costs, high food prices and a stagnant economy."

Yeah because deregulating industries that need to be regulating, the banks basically fucking over the economy for profit, two unnecessary wars, food deserts caused by massive inequality that had it's roots in what Bush did, that totally didn't cause all that.

"despite the success that the republican policies have brought in the past."

Check.the.figures.

Democrat presidents have universally had BETTER results. More jobs created, and generally a healthier economy.

"The Reagan and Bush Sr. years were some of the most prosperous we had, until Bush Sr. got conned into raising taxes by the democrats who promised spending cuts. After the Republicans took the House and Senate in '94, they worked with Clinton, passed tax cuts and we saw another run of success and prosperity until the dot com bubble burst and 9/11. After that, the Bush Tax Cuts brought us prosperity and growth until 2008 when the Subprime Mortgage Collapse exploded in our faces."

You don't understand how economics works do you? The boom had FUCK ALL to do with tax cuts, the only thing those tax cuts have done is to make the rich richer. But hey, keep drinking the coolaid, maybe you'll get that republican president you want eventually and have to face the reality, that most republicans are no friend of the vast majority of the populace.

Tell you want? Would you want to play ball with the political equivalent of a human pig cross breed with a bad entitlement problem? No? Then perhaps the republicans should stop being that human pig cross breed with a bad entitlement problem.

No, it's clear I've done my research and actually understand how an economy functions instead of swilling republican koolaid like you. If the Republican's asked you to shoot yourself in the foot, you'd probably do it.

Of course you know I was talking to HIM, with that last post.

You're more than welcome to post in the future, Sunshine.


-- Stephen

I think that little display from him said all that needs to be said about the viability of reaching a working consensus with republicans, sadly neither reason nor facts seem to interfere with people's willingness to believe complete nonsense. Trickle down has been proven not to work.

It would be nice if people could work together, but until the average republican wakes up and realises that republican politicians are either rich or chasing rich people in hopes of becoming rich, and thus have little incentive to actually serve the average republican instead of their own best interests. I don't think it's going to happen.

Wrong, I'll end it.

I only allowed this to continue because I do believe people have a right to their opinions. HOWEVER, I'll not have one of my posts be the start of a "Bash-Bash" ad nauseum flame post.

You, Sir, have your opinions. Now I'll ask you to KEEP THEM TO YOURSELF and STAY OUT OF MY JOURNALS in the future.


-- Stephen

=--=
the next civil war is going to be so very delightful. *dry*