so true

Ah yes, I always thought Jaleel was the best voice of Sonic. Why Sega couldn’t hire him is beyond me.

Too expensive. XP Most video game projects simply don't have the budget to hire high-end voice actors.

When was the last time Jaleel White did something you actually remember?

Well, he is going to be in that movie "Kissing Cousins", I hear...






Still. <=P

Well... I enjoy SOnic for who is is and what his story has brang him as such... unlike many other heros... Sonic stays true to who he is as far as anyone goes or stops. SO doesn 't matter the genre of SOnic... Doesn't matter the demention... Doesn't matter the demention or even aspect of his travel... As long as Sonic is Sonic I'm not disippointed with him. NOW the games on the other hand and some of the other charater twists and pushes... well thoes are more arrguable if you ask me.

I do believe you have a point there. I never really could articulate WHY I preferred the old 2D games over the 3D ones...all I could say was...they were more fun. And I was rather disappointed to see the SatAM cartoon die after it was just starting to really get interesting. As for the comics, I gave up not long after Robotnick was killed in the "Fugitive Sonic" story arch (you just KNOW they ripped off the 'jumping from the waterfall' thing from the movie) mainly because things had gotten so convoluted and disjointed that it just didn't make sense anymore. Without Robotnick, there was no real struggle, it was all a matter of rebuilding...and things just got silly from there. And if you missed only one or two issues, you still were missing key components to their storyline. I think this is the main reason why I'm not just terribly interested in comics as a whole...because there are SOOOOO many friggin' issues to read just to get an idea of what's really going on.

"You're too slow! Come on step it up!" XD

To be honest I don't think I have ever seen those cartoons you are referring to, so I can't really have an opinion on comparing them today's games. To me, Sonic is just Sonic. And I think he's cool; if he can only get better via those cartoons, then kickass. ^..^

Worst case scenario.... we will just have a ton of crappy fan based stories that just suck and warp Sonic and Co. even more. ( sort of already there with people like from sonic passion O_o)

Best case scenario.... fan based creations will take over and change the Sonic franchise into something new yet has all the retro stuff we like about our favorite blue rodent.

I think to start down the path for the best case is if there was some sort of group formed in order to create new stories and fan based games. A group that has standards of course... we just can't have random sonic fans joining the writing team ( or else we would have worst case still).

Well this is what I think anyway..... atleast we can still play the old games and watch the old episodes when we need to turn away from today's things.

So in summary, we hate Sonic (and his whole franchise, for that matter) because the "unofficial" sonic stuff was freakin' awesome, while the main series has degraded into the one-dimensional and been bastardized to the Nth degree? Yeah, that seems about right.

Here's something I wonder.. Archie obviously has the freedom to continue using Sonic characters in their comics. What would it take for them to get the rights to have a game made by a third party developer, using both Sega's characters and the Freedom Fighters? Tell me you wouldn't want to see a game starring Princess Sally Acorn with Metal Gear gameplay. Booyah.

Metal Gear: Sally. It would be awesome just for the concept (and for princess sally in high detail game model form <3 ) even if the game itself was kinda poorly made.

and that is the sad truth crash

most furries here would rather play a game full of hawt furs then a game that was actually made to be fun *COUGHCOUGHANIMALCROSSINGCOUGHCOUGH*

There's a whole lot of cross-licensing issues between Sega, Archie, and DIC Entertainment. Not everything about the freedom fighters belongs to Archie. Coordinating everything would likely be too costly for a game project. Plus, the comics, TV shows, and movies help to sell Sega's games, while a 3rd-party game would compete.

Frankly, because of how Japanese developers do business, I don't see any developer other than the Sonic Team making "real" Sonic games, even though they have consistently sucked at making them. BioWare got the license to make Sonic Chronicles because they are a 2nd-party developer following Sega's canon. A true 3rd-party game isn't likely to happen.

There actually was a 2D game in development about the SatAM series, and it included Sally. It was canceled, though, I don't remember for what reason or if Sega was responsible for its cancellation. That was back when SatAM was still on the air, when it would actually have been relevant.

*raises hand* i always didn't like sonic ^^, i had a think for plumers with addictions to shrooms though :P, i never realy got the appeal ^^;;

When I was a young child, Sonic the Hedgehog was arguably my absolute favorite cartoon or video game character. The Sonic the hedgehog cartoon (The one that actually had a plot) was watched religiously, and the fact that I have never beaten Sonic and Knuckles with all the chaos emeralds still haunts me to this day.

Some of the gameplay to the 3D era sonic games did indeed have a bit of fun to it, but like many of us, I am overall very disappointed with what Sonic has become. It's almost as if the Sonic team at Sega have not actually played a video game themselves for quite some time...

So tell me, what kind of fan-projects would you have in mind?

Sonic Olympics should have never been a competitive game.

Sonic officially died when Sega's Dreamcast got raped by Sony's PlayStation 2, and so lives on as an undead reanimation of his former self in every video game he is now thrown into.

the 2D games beat the new 3D ones by a long shot. The first two satAM series kicked ass, and from there, with the spin-offs.... meh. I also dislike the half dozen or so new characters that seem to pop up out of nowhere with each game and become permanent additions from then on.

>.> <.<

Sonic Gear Solid. You know every hero deserves to nuke something.

Because the cartoon Sonic was "American" goofy animator's Sonic. Game Sonic is japanese "Everything is dry and serious" Sonic. Sure, the 2D Sonics of yestercentury had an older anime style, but it quickly became 'edgier' and 'edgier'.

Call it fanboyism, but even with as much abuse and change that Sonic has seen (and with as much bile as I have for the gameplay of the 3D Sonic games thus far) I don't mind either Sonic more than the other. They're all still the same blue hedgie I grew up with, and what I see in my mind hasn't changed.

To be frank, I definitely liked the 2D sonic games... and I remember owning the first three... as well as sonic spinball and a few of the game gear titles.

Truthfully I think it is the writers and story artists Sega hires, low budget writers that will take anything and make their own version of it. The last game I bought that was sonic was sonic rivals 2, but with a classic feel to it it was much too simple for a game on such a system. I expected a little more than an AdHoc feature. But with the more recent disappointments, I felt that I would rather spend my investments more wisely. Thus I got me a laptop and started buying from the incredibly addicting Valve.

In fan fiction, it is worse than the failure of the Sega consoles, but mainly because a whole bunch of kids write it, pointless with their chara... erm. Recolors all over it. Thus another reason why Sega can't find a good idea.


If Sega were to realize the true majority of their mature fan base, maybe they would try something else, but for now, it is always cater to the kiddies.

One more thing, If Sega wants to keep making their own versions of games we already played, maybe they should try peeking into Valve's success.

They had better not ruin werewolves like they ruined Sonic.

I have to say that your analysis seems to make pretty good sense.

I for one think he needs to haul his ass back to mobious. I am sick of him always being set on earth... that and he is only like 3 feet or so tall, so he is too short to be walking around the same streets as people.

I always felt like the problem was that they didn't do the 3D-transition right. I mean, there were some good Dreamcast Sonic games, but they were on a failed system in between the Sonic Xtreme debacle (you know, where it was so "Xtreme" that the Saturn couldn't even handle it, technologically speaking ) and the newer crap that completely lacks all the "reckless speed" appeal that the Genesis games had (such as that one X-box game, I don't even remember what it was called, that had immense load times everytime you did, well, ANYTHING! or that "Shadow the Hedgehog" game that didn't even know what it was trying to be, with the fact that Shadow wielded firearms; a long, drawn out storyline; and all the while, you have horrid camera angles that obviously would get in the way of running around recklessly). That's my theory anyway, but I've heard some very, VERY good things about Sonic Chronicles: The Dark Brotherhood (3 out of 3 erstwhile Sonic fans agree it's awesome! And, yeah, those three are Darknessthecurse on YouTube, the magazine Game Informer, and UndyingNephilim on DeviantArt, but yeah; anyway, I haven't played it just yet, but I will, believe me!)

I can't say I've played the post-Genesis games much, though, if at all, but I'm just telling you what I believe about this issue.

Everything i've heard so far is that half of Sonic Unleashed is the game you want. During the day you run fast, jumping and dodging stuff, classic sonic gameplay. The other half... a slow boring brawler with ugly stretchy arms.

Developers at Sega have said that they've tried pitching a classic style sonic game, but it won't get published because it needs a catch, so they come up with something like knights, guns, or werewolves and then it gets the go-ahead. It short-sighted by the publishers when we're seeing a revival of classic gameplay in games like MegaMan 9 and Bionic Commando. Sonic could really do with a new 2d game with HD graphics and classic gameplay available as a downloadable title for a discounted price, I think they'd make a killing.

OH OH OH OH!!!!!...Um.....I know what made him so bad ass to me in the games. (never saw teh comics and I can dimly remeber one or two episodes of this goofy sonic cartoon. I always thought teh silence was kinda bad ass. It was like "ok, here he is. here this robot is." wise crack? nope, Talk about something unrelated like friendship? not at all. A spin straight into the robots face followed by a skin of his neck avoidence of gun fire without phasing him. that was him. teh fact is voice works for cartoons because those are story driven, games not so much. Look at halo 3. I have yet to meet anyone who owned the game and really had a clue what the hell was happening in the game. it was generally "oh cool, we just shot a laser!"

I think if there was a game where sonic was more physically expresive but didnt actully talk, and the word frendship was never said then the game would be alot better story wise. Use tails as a voice with sonic's bodily expresions being the focal point that helps the audiance fillter whats important and not important. like, if they wanted to, (not sure how) start the seris over from sonic 3D and keep the charecters that have been intorduced so far, just reintroduce them in diffrent ways.

It starts out with sonic walking through teh woods, tails folowing right behind him and jabbering on trying his hardest to get sonics attention and respect (since in sonic 2 tails followed along cause sonic was his hero) through tails talking we learn hey the other games didnt happen and they just got knuckles on borad and got done with flicky island or what ever they called it in number three. as they walk along sonic dosent really encourage his talking but does achnoledge him by watching him when he starts walking in front of him and grabbing him just before he trips over a root. as tehy walk one of the charecters from teh other series (creamperhaps) runs into them, sonic gives a questioning look at her and tails asks her whats wrong. she tells em someones attacking her home up ahead and and thus sonic rushes off to start the new adventure.

of course The thing I think the games have failed at so far is realizing things have changed and trying to fit teh same style game play isnt going to work at all unless the game goes 2D again which I promise you will fail. the games need to rely less on teh idea of a trak system or going ungodly fast for long periods of time and need to be more like megaman legends with a simplistic battle system, colorfull well written story, large number of varied enemies, and levels that lose the feel of a track or or road feel and branch more into a maze whos delivery method involves speed and have a few speed based attack.

anyway....thats what I think. I'm sorry if that was alot or too much to read. Umm....I hope that all makes sence. even though I made taht begining part up I think it sounds good.

I don't know, I think you may be speaking for yourself here. I never liked the cartoons or US comics, and the UK ones... well, I liked them, but it was mainly because it was Sonic, not because he had a particularly well developed personality there (and lets face it, he didn't).
Also, I really, really liked Sonic Adventure 1 and 2. Better, in many ways, than the original games. That's not to say they didn't have their faults (Knuckles' levels were too open ended and goal-less for me. At least every other character it was about getting from A to B in an interesting manner.
For me, I think, the main problem with the newer Sonic games is TOO MUCH SPEED. Sonic wasn't /actually/ that fast without a powerup in the Megadrive/Genesis games, and the lack of performance grading meant you could happily play through them at a speed suitable for enjoying the levels without feeling like a failure at the end. Even in Sonic Adventure 1 and 2, the game played at a manageable speed (for me, anyway, since I played them in 50Hz mode :P). Then I tried Heroes, and everyone moved at the speed of light. Same with the Advance and Rush games, really. If the game can't be played without being full of sugar and/or crack, then it's not fun.
But that's just me, perhaps.

true, like teh few times I acctully finished a level on sonic 2 or 3 by going incredibly fast I was all like "hey what the heck, I couldnt even see what was happening! howd I even do that?" and to be honest I think I missed a few powerups that way to.

I'd like to post this very argument on =TSF= (The Sonic Factory, the only forum I still frequent, despite my waning interest in the official product)
It's likely to get some amusing reactions, especially from the fanboys.

Feel free.

I remember when TSF stood for The Sonic Foundation. I remember staying up late listening to the radio.

Alas.

From a personal standpoint I like all the Sonic games. The first Sonic game I ever played was Sonic Heroes and that game got me into the franchise. I had never played the old Sonic Genesis games until after playing the Adventure 1 and 2 remixes for the Gamecube. One of the only problems were the camera angles. I also like the US Comics. Though recently it has had a lot of drama. It seems like there in the whole high school drama thing or something but its not that much of a big deal to me. I've never seen SatAM but I did like Sonic X. But I do see your point. What Sega needs to do is find a way to melt the best of the 2D aspects and the best of the 3D aspects into one awesome game. A game based off of the US Comic would be pretty interesting. Also, for the love of god please bring back the ability to use Super Sonic in normal gameplay! Not just the final stage!

i think sonic origonaly got our intrest because he was fast. remember EVERYTHING else that was around at the same time sonic first came out? slow as shit and ugly as hell. it was that fast paced cool and stylishly colorfull. but the gamn gave us no real real plot. so the cartoons came and made him a hero with a little depth.

now that being said ill say why i think sega dropped the ball. we grew up and sonic didnt.
archie kinda ran with this and made him age with us a little relationships moral delimas and what not.

but sega dose what alot of failed frachises do. they keep it at kid levels. and thanks to the censorship people its retarted kid levels so even the regular kids cant relate to it. its often too dumb.

thats why their loosing us. any thing new that wants to be sucsesfull needs to do one thing GROW UP

I really wish that...

A) The Sega/Sammy merger was dissolved, cause I think pachinko rips off 'Plinko' from Price is Right, and that Sega has no business anywhere near that type of pinball...

B) Sega Japan be permanently closed forever, seeing as how the Japanese Sega reps are creepy old men...

C) SOA also gains possession the Global Sega HQ responsibilites...

and D) The Knothole Freedom Fighters get the spotlight in their own games, seeing as how it's impossible for them, in their true personalities, to suck harder than Shadow at Rouge's basement. :)

I mean, us fans of SatAM aren't really asking for much...we'd like to see a decent conclusion to that side of the Sonic world...it's called 'cutting the crap'...knowhutImean, Vern? :P

Quite true. Dan Drazen said some quite insightful things about what was so gripping about the SatAM series, and the sad thing is, almost everything from it was gone.

Honestly, the problem i see with the comics nowasays is the utter lack of respect payed to the art styles laid down by the greats back in the day. Now, all the new artists they bring in seem to only accomplish a horrible knockoff manga art style. Archie's trying too hard to make Sonic live up to what's popular right now and not trying hard enough to just to make Sonic be Sonic!

A few big problems with the way Sonic has been treated these days is because of the people responsible for making the games and for how they view the targeted audience. Granted, a big section of that audience is the teenagers of today, who have different views on life and how the characters should be treated, but we, the diehards or oldschool crowd of older gamers want to see the core of the gameplay revert back to what it was.

Speed. Left to right. That's it.

Now, I will say that the Sonic Rush games (the first yes, the second not-so-much) were a return to that with fun levels, great music, and the old-style of left-to-right, run-as-fast-as-you-can gameplay. The 3D games, on the other hand, as you pointed out, were always lacking. I'm a musician by trade and I enjoyed the music from these games, yes, but there wasn't much thrill to them anymore. They've gotten steadily worse as they go along and STH 2006 was a severe letdown (in all but the music, which again was pretty darned good).

I look forward to Sonic Unleashed, if for no other reason than the Sonic levels look to try and bring that feel of who the character is back: a real speedster. Maybe they'll get a better voice for him. Maybe they'll deep-six the umpteen million characters and make it a three or four person affair. Maybe not. After all, the Werehog sections scream "God-of-War ripoff" to me, so they won't be perfect, but at least they're trying something new and refreshing.

And damned if that little flying chipmunk who follows him around isn't cute as fuckmothering hell.

in my opinion. sonic lost his touch in the END of SA2. the game was good but the main problem that made me feal uneasy that the games where going down hill was tails line "We all did it together" in the most gayest voice. and when they team up with eggman. it was even worce. casue it was not like he did not take advange of sonic trust. like a true villan would.
what segashould doo if they want eggman to still be in games is eather A) makehim retire from villan into a role where he wont keep flip floping side or atleast find a way where he just stays as a villan. SA1 was good casue that all there was in it. just at the end of the game you had to fight chaos.or better yet bring someone new to take over. in the Sonic comics robo robotnick takes over where the old eggman left off. B) dont give secondays craters crapy moves. i hated tails in STH. C) dont bring in another playable charater in every game. we where fine with what we have. its already too much, SA2 i was happy (but sad from this) that shadow died. they showed that sonic can deal with death of others. that he CANT save everyone. and i think they only brought him back (or her never died really) was from fan base. not everyone canlive forever. some charaters like should be taken off. like BIG. hated fishing..... he found frogy and that was that. he didn't need to come back. it was nice that he was in some lvls of SA2 but we ddin't need to really need to see him again. in chater wize sonic tails kuckles shadows eggman (maybe silver) is good for males amy blaze rouge (not too sure on cream really a bit too young) for females if they want make a female villan that would be nice. like a team up with eggman. (or marrage) and still he should give up pn eggman land. it sounds like he is building a amusment park or something "ooooo im so evil im going to make a place where i will controle everyone there by making my rides over priced and where no furries will be allowed". give give him sone better plan.
in the end i loves the RUSH games on DS cause it was. get point a to b and nother more bust bonuslvls dont need to make it too difficult. all i can now see is how the new sonic games lives up. SU and the sonic knight game on wii.

These points aside, Sonic has been, and always will be, my favorite video game character of all time.

I agree with this so much. I was the ultimate fanboy and called my self the Sonic Master which was a nickname given to me because I could beat sonic 1 on the dream cast even thought I never played it before. I helped one guy out who was stuck in this one part. Later down the road I sold everything and the last sonic game I played was on the Wii. I've never been more hapier after I got rid of it all of it. I was also completly obsessed with it.

I never liked anything that happened to Sonic outside of the 16-bit games. Sonic had far more personality than other video game characters of the era (such as Mario and Bonk). The reviews of the day noticed it as well, as did other game companies. Remeber the subsequent wave of "extreme" game characters with more attitude and expressions--and stand-still animations!? "Bubsy" comes to mind as one of the more blatant attempts to ride that wave. He wore a T-shirt that bore an exclamation mark to remide you of how awe-insiringly cool and hip he was! XP What a joke!

Of course, Sonic's personality was still limited by the tech of the time. Sadly, the comics, cartoons and future games filled in the gaps with cliche, kiddie crap; completely ignoring the original (and biggest) fans who had already outgrown that (which is still done to this day). He remains one of the best-designed and worst-treated characters ever.

Obviously, I disagree with your views of "SatAM" and "AoStH"--especially "AoStH," which remains the epitome of everything wrong with the franchise. Now it's only good for a sort of camp (like the wonderfully silly drawings here on FA of the cone-headed Robotnik) with the depressing undercurrent of lost potential.

The full personality we remember for Sonic was from the cartoons, AoStH, and SatAM.

You know, I never watched SatAM, only AoStH and Sonic Underground, which I hated both. The reason was that they were poorly drawn (AoStH), did not follow the game putting dumb characters that looked almost fanchars (Manic in SU) and had idiotic name references (SWATbot?/ Knothole/Sally Acorn (So Cheesy)) and storyline of SatAM.

That is American animators FAIL hard to capture the essence of the Sonic universe. And they also try to come up with another character designs. But Sonic's design is anime, and Sally's is western (Mickey Mouse anyone?) so they don't fit.

Watch Sonic the Movie (japanese anime) and play Sonic CD. That film and game show the real personality of Sonic and draw elements right out of the games which makes it awesome.

Now, about the games. The 8-16bit era was great. Sonic Adventure 1&2 was great as well. Then Sonic Team tried to make Sonic more mature, which was the end of it. Gave work to American developers again (Sonic Unleashed) and fills the market with failgames.

Only fangames can save us now...

I don't Believe in Fangames so much(though I hope for Sonic Nexus and Retro Sonic XG to be completed in the months and years to come)

and I thought in a recent release of a 10 min Animated short with Sonic and Chip...I thought some of Sonic's old personality was shining in it...

also Sonic can eat Chili Dogs in Sonic Unleashed! <3

Well I can agree with some of these opinions, I know some friends should've said he should've never talked at all(Sonic that is)

But I thought Sonic Unleashed brought back the Sonic Fan in me just by playing it this weekend and I will be playing some more of it WOO!

Well,let's see. First off,the games suck. Linear paths and all were fine back in the 16 bit days,but with even the low end processors available able to run 3D GTA style sandbox games,there's really no excuse anymore. Sonic should be given nice,large areas to really explore and things to do. Follow the twisted,fucked up road just doesn't do it anymore.

You might think coming up with a mundane,static map might be boring. I say it's just a stage for all the action and story to take place in. Imagine what all you can do in a cityscape littered with hidden trails,jumping puzzles,and poles you can use to flip up to higher places. Imagine calling on Tails to drop a springboard where you need it. Imagine smashing through walls as Knuckles. Or flying free and easy as Rouge. All in a completely destroyable city. With vehicles. Or maybe you'd rather blow through a forested maze. Or how about a desert area? Imagine a Sonic game in an area the size of San Andreas.

I know it's probably not going to happen and some people would even be against the idea. But I think it's a great place to go with Sonic.

Well, Norithics, it could be worse. You could be releated to someone who is so hopelessly devoted to not only Sonic, no matter what god-awful thing they do with him, but Megaman as well, and THAT is all the world that they know. Two blue things with a stream of games that never seem to end, or get any better...and people who follow them around like a new religion.

*takes a moment to shudder in revulsion.*

To me, Ken Penders had killed StH in the comic when he killed off Robotnik. The first one to anyone else that's reading this. I loved SatAM, AoStH, hadn't seen SU, but I had written my own StH fan fic (forever hidden) though a good number of my characters came from that when I realized that I was writing my own universe in the stories. My first girlfriend wrote a rather dark Sonic series that I had read (even co-wrote a story or two with her) and adored.

Yeah, I like the old Sonic. I don't like Amy Rose, I like Sonic with Sally...or Sonic and Tails with a Knuckles chaser ;p

I played Sonic 2006. I beat Sonic 2006. It's not just that it was a bad Sonic game that bugs me, it's that it's just a flat-out bad game.

Sonic team has lost their rights to both use that name and to make games.
Sega should be contracting out to more companies. They did OK by giving Bioware the task of creating a Sonic RPG, but if they want to save the franchise they need to push for the roots; 2D platformer with sprites in a higher resolution Genesis-era style. Ideally, it would be made for the portable market (None of that annoying 'play across two screens' nonsense from Rush) by Capcom. Sonic 3&K style in that every character plays through roughly the same levels but with different path options, and you don't need to beat the game N times to get the REAL ending, you just need to get the 7/14 emeralds and you can go back to levels you've already completed if you need to find more bonus stages for that purpose. If they feel the need to put in a story, then either make it in mime-format or let players turn it off before they start playing.
As far as cast goes, as long as it has STK it'd be fine.

Also, I've realized something; Robotnik isn't evil, he's just out to make everything awesome and keep himself entertained through conflict with his opponents.
Bunnies? BORING! Giant bunnies on springs that shoot explosives at people? AWESOME!
Birds? BORING! Rocket-powered wasps that shoot fireballs? AWESOME!
Floating island? Awesome, but not as awesome as THE DEATH STAR.
As far as Sonic goes, why do you think Robotnick would create such giant facilities with ample running space and conveniently placed springboards and power-ups? He's even saved Sonic's life when stages proved to be literally impossible - and thus unsporting.
He's got an IQ of 300; if he REALLY wanted to kill off Sonic and Friends, he would just lead them into an inescapable death-trap.