it's all good bro. Yeah... that about sums it up for me too.

I agree completely. I myself am a gay furry, and I am disgusted by the same things you are. I am very nervous about the whole anal thing because I've never had sex before. Also, not many gays in the fandom involve cuddling in their stories.

Doesn't mean we don't irl.

I know.

Yes, I agree with what you say, I have actually ASKED "Gay writers" to use stories as a way to educate me....I am not personally interested in guys, but for my writing...I would love to know how someone who IS... would describe the taste of semen....

I mean I ASSUME that the anal sex part is enjoyable for both sides... but I do not know... for the physical sex, I truly BELIEVE it is uncomfortable for the "receiver" I mean I have had a few probes shoves up my ass for colon scans..it was NOT an arousing experience for me. So...Does one get "used to it" and it becomes pleasant? Or do both lovers put up with the discomfort, in exchange for the pleasure when they "switch sides"?

It seems to me like stories, and artwork..would be one way to "educate" others and eliminate Stereotypes (instead of making NEW stereotypes which currently seems to be the trend).

I would not be at all surprised (and amused) to find out my above paragraph OFFENDED people... Another fallacy of the life style I guess..we want to shove our dicks in everyone's face...but don't ask such intimate questions..... :)

I am curious though, if I might ask... You said in your reply your Gay...but you have not had sex. I honestly mean no disrespect, I woudl truly like to understand...how do you define Being Gay? I have always associated "Gay" with "sex" not that it is the ONLY measure of the life style....but it just seems to me that WITHOUT sex...how is your partner any different from a very close friendship.

I mean I my family raised me so that I would give my dad hugs and kisses. I know many societies (including French and Middle eastern) where male male kissing and affection is completely acceptable....and anyone can look at a body and say "thats attractive:

So, if I may ask, what made you determine your gay? and how do you define gay?

Well, I am looking for a man to spend my life with as a true partner in every sense rather then just a sexual partner. I want to find someone to hold and comfort me when I am sad. I have felt drawn to men for some time now, but only fully admitted it to myself since about two years ago. Yes, I look forward to finally having sex someday, but I want my first time to be gentle. I feel that I just cannot be with a woman on any level other then as a friend. Also, being Autistic makes the would finding a boyfriend thing even harder. I've been called "damaged goods" even though what I have is PDD-NOS (very high function form of Autism).

I know, right. I am extremely gifted and unlike many autistic people, I am extremely empathic (I truly care about those around me).

It had to do with my learning habits at school. And I am socially awkward at times (more so in the past) I was diagnosed when I was 10 (18 years ago). I've forced myself to overcome many autistic obstacles, but there are still those that plague me.

Science and Math have always been very hard for me. But art is a way for me to deal with life. I also have issues with speech at times. Though as with most with PDD-NOS I have an above average IQ (cannot remember the exact level at the moment). I've been to one workshop in recent years with my mother and I hope to impart what I've learned to help others someday.

I am very good at history. We tend to focus only on fields that we truly connect with for one reason or another.

I sadly am getting confused. Could we please drop the subject?

Ah, I see.

Ahh, you brought up a point that I have been mulling over in my mind for about five years. Sigmund Freud, the father of psychoanalysis, came to the conclusion that ‘homosexual men were obsessed with the penis.’ [definition of obsession: “the domination of one's thoughts or feelings by a persistent idea, image, desire, etc.” Dictionary.com]

Granted that the awakening of one’s own sexuality in puberty is one of the first really BIG marks in independence from our parents -- especially since very very few parents ever prepare their children for that awakening before it happens and almost NEVER about same-sex attraction except that it is “bad, wrong, dirty, perverted and a sure road to Eternal Damnation“.

Never spoken about, except in tones of it being forbidden, it is only natural that thoughts and ideas about sex and same-sex attraction (which is almost inevitable since we mostly always associate with members of our own sex when we are young), are pretty much always at the top of what we tend daily and nightly think about -- especially at night when we are alone in bed with our BODIES.

Having discovered that touching ourselves in certain places brings on intense physical and psychological pleasure like nothing else in our lives also tends to focus our attention.

So yes, things and actions that can even hurt in certain areas of our bodies gets frosted over by intense psychological pleasure are expressed through out of proportion sexual fantasies, both drawn and written about, along with the sheer freedom of finally being able to express those inner parts of our personality that we are expected to cover up and hide. “What is taboo is erotic” and natural.

Hey there:

Yes you have mentioned Sigmund Freud before (and your right) though he ALSO stated that MOST male's first sexual attraction is incestuous to their mother, which is completely normal, as for the child's entire life, the mother has provided for all the care, has really set the standard for what is nice and not nice. So it is only logical that most children first woudl like to have sex with MOM.

And as you pointed out, if that gets suppressed (and not talked about) the thoughts may wonder to dad, a friend, themselves, someone they can trust so they can explore.

I suppose that's part of my frustrationhere.. I do nothave to be GAY, to WANtto understand, andit's the GOOD side AND the Bad side

Contrarians in the late 20th and early 21st Century automatically disbelieve all those who have been labeled “authorities” or “experts“, but never offer any valid replacements gained through testing or research for what those earlier authorities or experts erected in the way of thought or idea.

I dunno, what you say may be true, Theonly thing I have to go by, is I believe I am not much different from most people, and I know *I* had a crush on my mum

Sorry, but I do not recall ever meeting or speaking with you, Akhetnu, at AnthroCon (which is the only con I have attended for the past 15 years). You have me confused with someone else.

I would disagree with Freud on who or what was the male child’s first sexual attraction.

For one thing, there is the issue of age difference. One very very rarely experiences any identification or understanding between persons more than seven years older or younger then themselves. Certainly not from any common ground based upon similar current experiences.

One does, however, seek continuing physical contact with the mother up to the point where the child can be considered an adult since the child has had daily physical contact with her since birth (even without the breast-feeding which was the norm in Freud‘s time).

That continual intimate physical contact generally does not occur in the child’s formative years with the father. And from the conversations that I have had, or have read from fellow gays, I have never heard any of them expressing any unfulfilled sexual desires directed towards their fathers.

Ahh! That explains the mystery of who you were speaking to. [Suggestion: In the future, when a lively journal multi-comment discussion such as this occurs, it is wise to mention the person's name to whom you are directing your comment/reply to, Akhetnu.]

In reply to your notation, it would be interesting for psychoanalysts to investigate the bonding (or lack of bonding) that occurs between son and father during a child's formative years. Freud's apparent rejection of the father as having any influence in the child's personality formation (or sexual identity) might be revealing.

Yes we had a very nice chat, and your right I have no problem with a person's choice of sexual orientation. I have even had a few gay males "make a pass" at me and felt exceedingly flattered, though of course I was unable to take them up on their offer.

The most poignant thing you said, I believe, is the desperation, yes they have problems with relationships. My goal is to give some of these people feed back (which many profess to like) that says GUYS....come up for AIR... we get it :)

"But you know, Same Sex Furs (writers artists etc) almost FORCE me to just want to get as far away from them as I can."
- You know, I have colleagues at work that pretty much always look at girls like objects, "look at her butt", "If my wife had those boobs", whatever, I am gay and proud of it, and what you think of gay furs here is EXACTLY what I think of straight people outside of the furry fandom. And yet I know I shouldn't think that, judging people purely by their orientation is just as far from the reality as judging someone's actions by his ethnicity.

"I mean the DIALOGUE.... I was just looking at a story on another sight...and the author actually described a horse's scrotum as "big fat nuts with a heady musk" Does anyone actually talk or even THINK that way?"
About stories, I read gay and straight stories, I've read sensual gay stories (a good example would be "ASB" Associated Student Body), and stories where cock and fuck were in every line. Same for straight oriented stories.

"Another thing that The Male / Male population NEVER seems to deal with. on the RECEIVING end, that sex is NOT fun. Everything I have heard (from women on Anal sex and from truly good same sex friends I know) is that until the muscles are bashed into flacidness...it HURTS. No story or artwork ever deal with that part. And even after, I am not sure if it is the IDEA of the act or the ACT itself that makes it pleasant for the receiver."
Yes I does hurt, for some of us to the point of not being fan of anal, despite being gay, you can be gay and not do anal, just like you can be straight and do anal. Now if you read a gay story that is made for fapping, the hurting part might be taken off the story, mainly because eh... It's a PORN story, we don't care about condoms or pain, we just want something sexy to fap on, I don't see what's more "weird" compared to a straigth story.

"And then there is the IN YOUR FACE cocks...huge giant dominate your vision cocks. As a male I can tell you I like mine but man not like THAT....."
That's just a fetish that some people have, Some girls also like them bigger.


Sorry for quoting you so much, but I reread what you said many times and I still don't understand what is so hard to understand for you in gay love (or should I say, gay sex here). Most of the kinks that have ever existed or will exist can also apply for straight sex, there can be consideration or a lack of consideration no matter if you're gay or not.

My reply would probably also be something along these lines.

Thank you for your reply.

I think though, you missed my point (and I am not the BEST at being clear ;) ) I think I have a fair grasp of "Gay love" or Gay sex if you will.... What makes me want to run away is the WAY that those who obsess, do it. I can not say i have EVER anywhere seen the level of sexual objectification with even a breast or a PUSSY that seems to be now with the "cock"

I do not mean to criticize people choices... but I am a person too..and *I* have choices...choices that are getting more and more difficult to find.

First off, shame on you. The title of your Journal is a little misleading
Now to the main part, which could get a littly ranty as well.
What drew me to the Furry Fandom in the first place were the ideas and the possibilities that came with anthropomophic characters.
Does anyone remember epics like 'Light on Shattered Water' or 'Khiray of the River'?

These writer build entire Worlds.

Today it's mostly about personal fetishes. Be it in art or stories. Comic characters get whored out (sorry for being so crass) for comissions. Last time I read an 'Extinctioner's' comic Artica was still a virgin and had the hots for Red, who was in a relationship with Scarlet (now there was drama potential). I know commissions are not canon, but it still cheapens the character especially after the tenth porn commission with her in it. Suspension of disbelief? No longer possible. Even if Ebonyleopard brought out an Extinctioner's comic on a regular base again, I can't see the virgin in Artica anymore.

What I am trying to say, it's not a problem of same-sex artowk or stories. It's all around.

Does anyone even remember the last time a fearful furry character actually had it's tail between it's legs?
Does anyone else know about these little essays: http://www.arclight.net/~pdb/nonfiction.html (and skip down to 'World Building)Especially:
Espionage in a Furry World
Fashion Tails
Diversity Training
Ergonomics in a Furry World

I'll be posting a few tidbits of my greymuzzle memory below and I hope someone sees what they are missing out these days.

http://joeartguy.deviantart.com/art.....pice-192216137
I recently showed this at a monthly furry gathering and only very few understood the joke.
If you don't understand it, you are not only missing a good joke, but a good movie. Dune. Be it the original one (very stylish) or the newer version (closer to the bbook). The novel itself... well, it's good, but difficult to read.Not good for a causal reading.

Well said Dreamfox:

and your right. I just happened to narrow down my argument to the whole "cock " issues because I feel so overwhelmed and FLOODED with it.

Your right is IS all about fetishes now..but hell look at main stream writing. the new Star Trek movie? all blink and plot holes the size of universes?

I know, it's sad.

You know, what I just ordered? Flash Gordon. The one with the Queen soundtrack.
Yes, it's silly, maybe even stupid. Yes, there are also a lot of plotholes and so on. But you know what? It has one thing that sets it above many moives these days despite the same flaws. It's FUN.

As for Star Trek...
In the Classic series they had to let Kirk's love he met in the past die so that the nazies would not win WWII. And now, even with old Spock and his knowledge of superior technology of the future at hand, they are not even trying to save Vulcan? I mean sure, it would probably be a time paradox, but the stoy had a time paradox in it from the start, so what?
I won't even go into the moral sellout ( storywise ) that's called 'Into darkness'.
In the same vein, ready to count the lens flares in the next Star Wars movie?

Wait, they made a new Dune movie? This is the first I've heard of it.

And sad as it is to contemplate, fellow Grey, the great majority of furries weren't even born yet when Dune first hit theaters, and it's not seen a lot of TV time in recent decades.

Well, it's a multi-parter for TV and covers the first two books rather well I've been told and saw (haven't seen it completely yet).
Thanks to todays special effects they can do a lot more with a good TV budget than they could back then with a movie budget.

As for age part... well, I've heard that even fantasy buffs don't recognize quotes from the original Conan movies anymore.
And yes, ask "What's best in life?"
And you often get question marks as an answer.

To see your enemies driven before you and to HEAR the lamentation of the women!


BTW the FIRST dune book was GREAT the second was like watching paint dry

Correct Post

I mentione Khiray of the River in my post above. Here is the End of Book one. A scene that always gets me. Even after 15 years.
SPOILERS. If you are interested in the full story: http://www.furry.de/khiray/intro.htm

"You are a magician", Khiray said into Pallys' face.

The Rabbit fingered at his staff. "No, I'm not. I've just collected some magical items over the time."

The Fox shook his head. "You knew of the secret chambers, because you worked on them yourself. There is no other explanation." The Demon's voice was silent. His body still felt abused and dead tired, but he was able to think clearly again. "No one else could know about it. There are no documents. Only the governors, maybe, know about the chambers."

"I didn't deny my involvement with the building of the hidden rooms." The Rabbit sighed. "I've been the architect, to be exact. I just said I'm no magician."

They had met on the afterdeck: Khiray, Pallys, Saljin, Sarmeen and Delley. A crewman stood at the rudder.

"Wait a second!" Delley burst out. "The architect of the wall? At the time of Galbren's anchestors?"

Saljin had lain down on deck and leaned against the cabin wall. "Only magicians live that long... You were the Rabbit who visited our people once, weren't you? The one I've been told about."

Pallys slowly nodded. "I've lived for a long time."

The Rat crossed his arms. "That's what you always say."

The Rabbit smiled weakly. "It is true. I encountered Saljin's people four hundred years ago and lived with them for many decades."

"I don't believe it..." Delley walked up and down the deck, furiously. "You lived for four centuries?"

"I came to Sookandil later on, living there under various names, with short interruptions." Pallys lay down the staff. "You did suspect that, didn't you?" He looked into Khiray's face.

"Too much magic..." Khiray murmured. "I did guess something. But suspected, no, I cannot say that." But it fitted. Pallys' tales. His refusal to speak about his early wanderings. His claim he saw empires come and go.

Empires...

Slowly, the shadows of the story lifted before Khiray's eyes. He began to understand. The story... the old story which made Pallys react more violently than appropriate...

Delley laughed. "Next we'll hear you've been among the founder fathers of the Armygan."

"No." Pallys lowered his ears. "At that time, I was elsewhere. I came to the Armygan for the first time only some centuries afterwards."

"At that time, you..." Delley exploded. "That's been one thousand three hundred years ago!"

Pallys looked up to him, an uninterpretable expression on his face.

"Pallys..." Khiray folded his hands. "Pallys, the story of the stronghold of the immortals..."

The eyes of the old teacher became cloudy. "Yes?"

"They weren't Leopards, were they? They were Rabbits."

Pallys shrugged. "Leopards are better suited as heroes of a legendary tale."

Gods. It was true then. Pallys wasn't born in the Armygan, but...

"The stronghold really exists, then. You know where it is."

"Yes. I spent many years searching for it. It gave me eternal life, but it didn't return my youth. I've been content nevertheless, for a long time. Just the question, the eternal question... My brother had built an empire in all those years, a fortunate empire, a home for many Furrys, while all I had accomplished was just for myself. My brother was a king, a hero, loved and held in the highest esteem. When I came to Syrradrea, I was a stranger."

"Syrradrea?" Delley grinded his teeth. "That's a legend! A story for children and fools! A tale from the ancient lands!"

"Today, maybe", Pallys admitted. "But it had been true, once."

"Pallys", Khiray gently asked, "how old are you really?"

The old teacher looked dreamingly over the rail across the river, the shipping channel, the forest. "I remember... when I was a little Rabbit... those memories never fade. I have forgotten so many things, but not this one. I was four or five years old, and I ran across a field. What was Syrradrea later on, was only a valley with some poor huts and cottages then. The sun shone, it was summer, and the smell of fresh grass hung in the air. I don't know whether I've been so happy ever after again. There was earth beneath my paws, and little brooks with splashing water, and trees growing up to the skies." He looked at Khiray. "I don't know whether I'll die tomorrow or in a hundred years -- rather, be killed, because I don't age any more, and illness doesn't affect me much. But when I die I want to remember this thought, a perfect summer's day fourteen thousand years ago."

No one said a word. Even Delley remained silent, with open muzzle.

Slowly the forest passed by. Birds chirped in the trees, and grey shadows whisked through the branches, unmoved. Behind the 'Silver Ansicc' white water foamed. Before the ship, the vast land stretched.

They sailed down the river, into an unknown future.

Also over ten years old and availbe because of eBook and print-on-demand:
The Journey by Will A. Sanborn

Porn is, always has been and likely will always be cheap. Don't look at me. I'm just saying as it is.
You want to cheapen your character or story, that's your business.

Like I said my Lord Griffin, it's not just the same-sex art and story, although I have to agree it is getting pushed into our faces a little more, the same problem persists in heterosexual art. An internal cumshot is easier to draw than a face that looks like it is in the throes of an orgasm.

It's sad, because those that are into different lifestyles throw away a chance to let others understand them by the stuff you mentioned.
Oh, and if anyone says, they don't want to be understood? Don't come crying when you get looked down on or your lifestyle gets bad press.

*gack* I hope I made a point, but I don't think so. *sigh*

I wrote you a private note :)

Mistake Post, sorry.

Still no reply ;)

There is absolutely nothing wrong with not liking dicks, but if you're going to judge the entire homosexual community, please pick something a bit more sensible to use as a basis than the My Little Pony erotic fanfiction experience.

Awwwwwww Come on Redtail..I am not judging the WHOLE Homosexual community, I am commenting on what I see here....You know I have some dear friends.... and I did apologize I know you can not label people this way...

Why would you comment like that?

So, to qualify myself here, I'll state first and foremost that the most racist things you'll ever hear someone say, usually are prefaced with the words "I don't mean to sound racist, but", and are often punctuated with "I have a black/Mexican/Arab/Jewish/etc. friend". Those inclusions do not make the statement any less racist.

I'm put-off by the generalizations, because I come here to get away from the stress that comes from living dead-center in the conservative heart of the state that is the nerve-center for the KKK, not to see people I consider friends passing off all kinds of generalizations about reasons that homosexuality is weird and wrong.
You have to remember that what you're seeing is not just pornography, but pornographic fanfiction. Neither one of those things on its own is generally known for its high level of character development, writing talent, or quality; put the two together and you have found yourself in the figurative heart of literary darkness.
You mention Twilight Sparkle in the context of erotic fanfiction, failing to recognize that individuals who are comfortable thoroughly sexualizing a flash-animated cartoon intended for 6-year-old girls, simply aren't concerned with ensuring adherence to canon; more to the point, that individuals of that type are not generally known for having experienced various types of intimate contact to the point where they could accurately extrapolate from what they know to create a realistic or meritorious representation of sexuality or sensuality. When much of the community is, in fact, male, they understand how dicks work, thus making them easier for the unimaginative individual that makes up the bulk of humanity, to write about.

And yet, it's not because furries just have a tendency to be weirdos, it's specifically a problem with male homosexuals. Gays are forcing you to love the cock. Gays are forcing you to accept stupid stories with zero discernable value. Gays are the only ones with severe body dysmorphia. Gays are the only ones who butcher an IP's canon to suit their particular sexual interests.


Also, for the record, anyone who says that anal sex hurts, is either doing it wrong, or trying to take something way too big, way too fast.
If you don't like it, cool. Differences in interests and proclivities help keep things interesting and fresh. You don't have to like what I like. I'm not even asking you to be comfortable with the fact that I like what I like, because I totally get that some things are just going to make people uncomfortable.
But don't paint my type as a bunch of depraved hedonists who so desperately want to have sex with everything that we will put a dick on anything and then force it, at the cost of great pain, into any hole we can imagine. Every soul for 30 miles in any direction of my home is capable of doing a good enough job of that.