Hard to tell. The problem is, you are the rare case that falls out of the common intersection: Bad Guy Wins (relatively common; in the cynical post-modern, post-neosincerity creative space there seems to be a confusion between deconstruction and simple sadism, however, and a lot of alleged decnstructions are easily deconstructed, more so than the genres they clumisly deconstruct) and "Ugly creature with hot woman." A variation of "Ugly guy, hot wife" there is a baseline collective agreement that it is narratively plausible for an unattractive man to have an attractive wife (See: Homer Simpson, Peter Griffin and most men in modern comedies). The early deconstruction of this made it clear that women would actually probably never take up with such men and would be disgusted by it. It increases the unwillingness, which made it a natural fit for humiliation scenes. That explains the baseline. Following that, and in response to increasing stigmatization of racist overtones, folk needed a way to include "face" characters as inhuman savages (blackface, redface, yellowface, etc) because they were still aroused by racism but needed a socially acceptable disguise. Now I am weak on very old low fantasy and emerging high fantasy but I can't recall much sex with the various monsters, as those tended to be used more for violence. Fantasy monsters could fit the bill, just as fantasy humanoids (mostly elves but also fairies and oter spirits) became the pinnacle of beauty. Atthe same time, or in a similar era, aliens did double duty again, with green-skinned space babes as the peak, and ugly alien monsters asthenosphere valley. Monsters and aliens are the new, unquestioned "greenface" that allow for racism-as-fetish-fuel without raising eyebrows. And it still remains that at the lowest common intersection, it is always more taboo and exciting when a beautiful woman loses to an ugly monster. Renderotica is a good example, yes. You could also mention Dangerbabe/Spacebabe Central. Lots of misogyny and slaughter in those stories (to forestall any questions, I was on a comic anthology page and those were up next to less insane fare.)

But that's just my take on it. The short version is that you are one of the rare people who likes seeing women lose (don't mention that too loudly; I know you and yet *I* think that should earn a ouch in the dick) but doesn't like seeing them with disgusting monsters like orcs, trolls or tentacles.

Your best option might be to draw or write it yourself and see who takes notice? That's what I have done.

I do that RV...my problem is when *I* write...*I* now all the outcomes..no surprises..sometimes it's nice to be inspired

Blame the Ancient Greeks. They taught that Good displays itself through the physical beauty and mental balance of its possessors. Wrongness (or immorality) reveals itself through the lack of that beauty and balance.

There are the socially (globally?) accepted canons of physical beauty inherent in heroes and heroines. The social myth of Good always triumphing over Evil is the much desired “happy ending“. These are the pillars of the literary and graphic arts “Establishment“. Current day artists/authors are either still in post-adolescent rebellion against them, or simply without any personal value of Goodness in their own personalities. They are expressing the Outsiders’ rage through vicariously exploring the “values” (?) inherent in Evil, defeat, plainness, the average, and defeat.

The stench of death, the spray of blood, the revelation that the grinning victim was really willing, even eager, to have their repressed wants experienced. The stench of death, the spray of blood, the joyous screams of victims is all part of the artists’/authors’ masturbatory frenzy around the bonfire of social values.

So in Short Lionus:

All they care about if fap....young writers who have no concept of fap...

thats what i like about you and GabrielLaVedier, you both very deep :)

Is the vandal spraying graffiti on someone else’s white wall trying to get an actual message across to whoever sees what he has written, or is he doing it because he gets intense pleasure out of violating someone else’s property?

Does the fapper really enjoy the porn of someone being sexual violated that he sees on the Internet? Does it make what he is doing with his hand that much more enjoyable?

There is a strong linkage between violence and sexual feeling. So maybe the act of drawing or writing about the “stench of death, the spray of blood, the revelation that the grinning victim in the porn drawing is really willing, really wants it” gives the writer or artist (and eventually the reader) that same degree of intensity depicted in the imaginary sexual violation eventually leads to fapping in RL.

Losers win, heroes fail, violence replaces happiness for the end of the story. A dark world without life-affirming values.


Thanks for that kind “very deep” compliment, Lordgriffin.

I know this is a bit late but I'm quite fond of the bad guy winning in the end. Then again, I like playing the bad guy.

But as for your last question, I still have no idea.

Perhaps we could get together and talk about "the bad guy winning"

Okay, so, I presume, you're saying that if many...most...fems were put into "bad end" situations that they would most (almost always?) NOT be emotionally enjoying it. They should/do feel degraded, humiliated, shamed, dirtied, soiled during their "use" and for some time, if not most/all of their remaining lives, that way afterwards (nightmares, bad recuing dreams, horrid flashbacks, etc.). I can understand that as that is what occurs in real life for assaulted fems in the great majority of cases.

Well,technically you are right...I am saying all you just summarized..but that is only PART of it....

The part I think your missing is the whole "suspension of disbelief" Ok, I get it that this IS actually fantasy...but the question is, what message are you trying to send, and perhaps more importantly (for me) what is acceptable.

I can suspend disbelief and accept that there is this squirrel guy out there named "Roadrodent" and that he has a gorgeous lush tail, and is a smooth talker. But when you start saying he has 9 foot long fangs and likes to drink white hot lava because thats what squirrels do....the fantasy falls thru.

Now taking that analogy to the "Bad End" situations....Because she is a heroine, perhaps she does NOT have have nightmares....I coudl even believe because they are strong, they do not feel dirty or soiled...but they should feel SOMETHING that connects with their failure. Not to mention the whole "am I pregnant" thing that is unavoidable... It shoudl affect them SOME how even if it ends up with them saying...DAMN that did have a plus side..." However...if every single story ends up so superficial that it has no effect at al on them..well I get bored :/