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The imagination police
11 years ago
So as all of you are undoubtedly aware, the internet is becoming an increasingly sensitive place. There has always been people trying to police what is in our movies, music, books and video games, that isn't new. But this mindset is something I've seen starting to bleed into more personal and familiar territories I am a part of. Even I have had several recent questions aimed my way: "why would you draw something so horrible?" but I'm still getting the gentle end of this. Others who I follow have been called outright psychopaths and horrible people for making "unhappy" drawings. This seems to be a complete lack of comprehension or understanding as to why anyone would create something that isn't happy.
A LOT of people like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan. The Saw movies sold enough to apparently sustain that franchise for 7 damn movies; and they were nothing but gore and torture. Horror itself is a very popular genre, and people complain in video game forums daily that there isn't enough of it. We want to be scared, we want to be horrified, grossed out or otherwise bothered, all to varying degrees between each person, but still quite a lot of us want it to some degree. It's not inherently bad to feel these things, it's how we handle them that's good or bad.
So many of us go through day to day life, droning on in an almost trance-like autopilot. Sometimes it takes watching a character you empathize with die horribly or nearly die to remind you what a precious thing life is and break that trance. Some people just like to be afraid, maybe for the thrill, or because they don't really get to experience that emotion otherwise. It's fun to force yourself to feel bad emotions in a controlled environment where no harm will actually be done to you, that's why people watch sad movies/read sad things on purpose. The person exposing themselves to that entertainment wants to feel sad, they just don't want the consequences of actually having to experience something in real life that would bring about that emotion, and for reason.
Don't like that stuff? Don't want to feel something bad? That's perfectly fine, however there might be something wrong in your wiring if the existence of such entertainment unsettles you to the point you go on little crusades to wipe it out of existence. That isn't a healthy or rational thing to do, and yes, I would say even less healthy and rational then any scary drawing someone made.
A LOT of people like Breaking Bad, Game of Thrones and Attack on Titan. The Saw movies sold enough to apparently sustain that franchise for 7 damn movies; and they were nothing but gore and torture. Horror itself is a very popular genre, and people complain in video game forums daily that there isn't enough of it. We want to be scared, we want to be horrified, grossed out or otherwise bothered, all to varying degrees between each person, but still quite a lot of us want it to some degree. It's not inherently bad to feel these things, it's how we handle them that's good or bad.
So many of us go through day to day life, droning on in an almost trance-like autopilot. Sometimes it takes watching a character you empathize with die horribly or nearly die to remind you what a precious thing life is and break that trance. Some people just like to be afraid, maybe for the thrill, or because they don't really get to experience that emotion otherwise. It's fun to force yourself to feel bad emotions in a controlled environment where no harm will actually be done to you, that's why people watch sad movies/read sad things on purpose. The person exposing themselves to that entertainment wants to feel sad, they just don't want the consequences of actually having to experience something in real life that would bring about that emotion, and for reason.
Don't like that stuff? Don't want to feel something bad? That's perfectly fine, however there might be something wrong in your wiring if the existence of such entertainment unsettles you to the point you go on little crusades to wipe it out of existence. That isn't a healthy or rational thing to do, and yes, I would say even less healthy and rational then any scary drawing someone made.
Thank you so much.
It needed to be said.
as it's become more relevant than ever since 2014
I'm about to piss some people off with my next uploads, too. XD
Personally, I'm sensitive about gruesome art. Not all gruesome art (I do watch your gallery, after all!) but a lot of it turns my stomach. And that's fine. It's fictitious, it doesn't harm me, and I'm free to not look at it. Therefore, I not only respect but celebrate the people who create this kind of content for exercising their freedom of expression, whether or not their work makes me feel warm and fuzzy.
Also, just as you say - the world isn't a uniformly happy place! Sometimes I need to be a little disturbed or nauseated in order to appreciate the good things in life. Dark, strange art allows me to explore this in a healthy way. That's worth celebrating too.
To be fair, I do raise an eyebrow when people start to blur the imagination/reality line. For instance, when I feel like a artist is not just drawing non-con porn but also endorsing sexual assault, I think it's fair to ask: "Hey, uh... this is just fantasy, right?" Yet even in these cases, it's not the art I object to - it's the context the artist is putting it in. I'll take an artist to task for advocating real-world harm, but I'll still defend their creative freedom.
...
Anyway, thanks for writing this journal. It's an important matter.
It's like omg, little kids are chainsawing each other in half in their vidya right now. You, as an adult, can handle much more, even if you don't like it, it's not anything to let ruin your day. You can just not click the thumbnail or click off the image if too late. I see things daily that seriously bother me on the internet, oh well though, don't have enough time or patience to make a big fuss over it all XD
People know "okay this movie is gorey, horror-like, and so on. I can stay away from it."
People know "This game is rated M because of gore, horror, and torture."
But when someone browses Gelbooru or Furaffinity, even DeviantArt, they don't usually expect to see 'awful things' they expect to see furry art, anime art, and so on.
You ALSO need to consider the community itself and how it deals with a certain thing. For instance, 4chan? They love "rekt" threads; threads that feature people getting killed, beaten, tortured and so on.
If you try to submit that sort of material to DeviantArt you will get bitchslapped and shunned for being psychopathic and tastless.
FA also doesn't have a blacklist system, which causes more issues. You can't AVOID that type of art. Now, a blacklist system wouldn't stop it outright, but it's a step in the right direction.
Like I said, each community has it's expectations and it's own people in the community that makes it what it is.
If you post somewhere that will obvious disagree with what you're puttin' down you can either laugh in there face or be sensitive and hurt by it. In which case, why take the latter?
but im probly just a special snowflake though, since for me at least, i really dont like anything he makes because it strikes that weird fear nerve, but i also cannot take myself away from looking closely at everything he does, out of morbid curiosity. its all horrible stuff, but its also magnificent horrible stuff that i enjoy simply because it exists. so it dosnt really feel hard to appreciate things this way to me. cause lets face it, subject matter regardless, hes a REALLY good artist.
I do see it getting worse and worse as the years pass.
I would never not appreciate art for arts sake, be it fur, violent, cub, comic etc. Every creation is someones hard work and amazing skills.
Yup, you hit the nail right on the head there with a large mallet. And a few posters before me have too. I have noticed all around me that this is happening, in many different media forms. The "happy happy" attitudes of quite a lot of folk now a days makes me fear that a world like the one in Demolition Man is trying to be built. And that is NOT a world to be looking forward to, no good will come out of brainwashing people to feel only good things or trying to "hide away" the bad things in the world from the sheltered "people".
Pretend/fantasy is our way of escape, to vent in one way or another. Turn our movies, plays, books and games into happy happy lands where no wrong can ever be done and scolding people for (or forbidding people from) making content that is not "Happy" will eventually backfire. They will seek new ways to express their pains, their anger and rage. What would those idiots prefer: someone killing a bunch of monsters in a game/watching someone killing in a movie/drawing a sad thing/reading about terrible events? Or doing it in real life because they have no way (are not allowed) to express such negative and horrible things in simple ways like art. It will happen. It has happened before. Make something forbidden and people want it more. Take away a freedom and they will rebel against it.
Emotions build up, they need outlets, which is something movies, art and games provide. Suppressing the emotions of the people of the world to control what content is seen by a few folks who can't or won't handle the terrible truths of human nature is just plain stupid and dangerous.
The world is already full of terrible things as it is, you can't really change that, many people WON'T change. But you can prevent it from getting worse. Taking away what helps people from exploding from stress will lead to more incidents.
Multiply that by the number of severely stressed/desperate people in the world and you're just asking for trouble. It doesn't prevent anything, it will only build a place where people will suffer more and ONLY the select sheltered folk will live what they believe are happy lives.
And the sad part is that it isn't only on FA/DA and other "art" sites that I've noticed this. Just browsing the internet and I'll randomly come across some article about a movie I'd like to see and BAM! In the comment section will be people complaining about the blood, the sadness, the terrible stuff that's in it and that such a movie is bad for the children and will make them evil....Okay..if that's the case in your mind, DON'T take them to see it! I've seen some posts about the Hobbit/Lord of the Rings movies that is pretty stupid. Complaining about the killing and wars in the films. Really? Just really? And indeed Facebook has it fair share of fools who are worried about the "sick turn" our entertainment is taking, that it will only foster new generations of people who love killing and what not...
Really...Well I hate to tear these people's fantasies to shreds but the entertainment of the human race really hasn't changed all that much, only the way it is being delivered. Ancient peoples of the world watched fights to the death regularly, and children were present for such sporting events. Some people even went out of their way to watch entire armies during wars, finding places that were 'safe' to view the carnage from. Now fictional people "die" on the TV and on stage, same goes for games and books. Yes some stories are based on real things, yes some are more a history book/movie/game/play, than fiction, and these people did die at the time of the event. But most movies, games, art...etc are FICTION. It's a form of EXPRESSION and doesn't hurt anyone at all...
*Sigh*
Really sorry bout the rant, I've just seen so much of this censoring of content lately that it's getting on my nerves.
George Carlin - The tyrany of euphemisms
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o25I2fzFGoY
Is it the new generation? People trying to make a difference? People being offended for the sake of being offended? Are these the same people that get upset about FNAF?
It's baffling. For me, artwork like yours is what makes me feel good. I'm not pushing violent art on anyone else. I just personally enjoy the aesthetic and b-movie horror motif.
Oh well. It'll do them good to occasionally bump into some "scary" artwork, I suppose. I just hope the artists themselves aren't the ones scared off from the childish backlash.
Not liking it is fine, disagreeing with it, but people have gone to verbal threats of people who enjoy something they would find shocking. Some not being able to differentiate that it's a fantasy and not a reality going on. That the person who enjoys it does so in the comfort of their own home and does not seek to approach any aspect of that fantasy in reality save for benign emulation of aspects. Where they seem to shout and scream on their digital soapbox about people enjoying these sort of darker fantasies murderers or monsters.
I tend to ignore the inane ramblings of certain people of an older age demeaning the younger as hopeless or other methods of insults but there is some truth in their hair brained conclusion. It seems that the more recent generations are less and less able to deal with these negative emotions. They tend to be bubblewrapped by their family/parents to protect them from feeling any sort of negativity in a strong manner that when they find something like your gallery, all they can process is anger and revulsion only. Shallow in depth of their emotions and understanding of them.
Government intervention ala the Prohibition is unnecessary where mob-style strong-arming is equally (in)effective in exerting the momentous influence necessary to enact their vision for the future of the internet as family-friendly venue; you've probably experienced and have more recently observed as a bystander just how collective coercion works. Those not belting under the pressure of constant harassment are doing their part to preserve the sanctity of the internet as a grand forum for ideas, that's for sure.
Ultimately, wouldn't it be just grand if they could simply set their opinions apart from reality? It's like some kind of psychosis, can't stomach some macabre fantasy that's so irrelevant to one's life that, unlike scary things in real IRL life, really will just go away if they'd just close the tab. No, they've gotta opine on artwork and make absolutely certain they're heard; all well and good, everyone's entitled to an opinion! But then they're so insecure in their position because they haven't actually influenced the creator(s) of whatever "offending" content triggered their triggerphobia, so they're not only offended at this point, they feel impotent, and that's when they degenerate into harassment and threats of violence. For as long as the internet enables spineless saps raised by suburban soccer moms in, say, bumfuck Connecticut to savvy content produced by individuals as far flung as Asia, perhaps this is just a caveat emptor that accompanied our new digital frontier, one with which we may need to just buck up and cope; at the risk of sounding sappier than I've already, I'll admit anyway that I am extremely happy when I see people that not only deal with it, but have adapted to handling it well; it's like watching real progress, evolution, as it happens.
I've seen it before, and these people, the delicate snowflakes, are much like those raised by the baby-boomer generation; coddled, selfish, and ignorant. They will step into the world and demand to be noticed because they have something to say, opinions to be heard, and they in turn will be slapped down by reality when they find something offensive or horrifying and demand it be altered or removed and the people around them shout "No!".
I'm not mad at horror because it scares me. I hate it because it tries to be more than it really is. You have jump scares, and screaming people. Because transvestites, mask wearing self help old people, and a guy with a fetish for an alternative human anatomy is the leading cause of death. 300 thousand people due to them every year. Its a true fact people...
You start up really well. I completely agree with the concept that people shouldn't complain about things they don't like, or try to classify people who make things they don't like as crazy or imbalanced. But then you do this kind of "mental turn around" thing. Why must the people who don't enjoy/can't handle negative horror have something wrong with them? You claim life is harsh and there are many cases that people will experience throughout their lives that will be negative and unpleasant... this doesn't mean people should expose themselves to negative fantasy as some kind of "prep course" for it happening in RL, or that if someone isn't able to deal with negativity in RL that they have some kind of mental disability. If you don't like people calling you crazy for the art you create, then why would you then turn around and say those people are the crazy ones? It's just kinda childish.
You make some good points here, but then you let yourself slip into the same practices than you claim are wrong in other people, which defeats the intelligent line of thought you started out on.
There is nothing wrong with people who don't like that stuff, but there is probably something wrong with people who flip out and act like that stuff shouldn't exit because they don't like it.
You claim life is harsh and there are many cases that people will experience throughout their lives that will be negative and unpleasant... this doesn't mean people should expose themselves to negative fantasy as some kind of "prep course" for it happening in RL, or that if someone isn't able to deal with negativity in RL that they have some kind of mental disability
I didn't say anyone should expose themselves to things they don't like, but if they happen to come across something they don't like there are maturer ways to deal with it. And if someone is at the point they can't do that with a fantasy thing, then I do fear for what will happen if they are in a bad, real life situation, since they've already proven they freak out over the inconsequential.
It's a sad state of affairs when free expression is stunted not by moralizing conservatives, not by State politics, and not even by religious dogma, but by the insidious, patronizing tyranny of 'you might hurt someone's feelings'.
I was initially drawn to your work not only because of how morbid it was, but how realistic everything looked and how little you cared about hiding the very disturbing vore and mutilation content. Doesn't mean I like either, I find vore in general to be baffling as a fetish, yet I enjoy how your work can make me feel repulsed or uncomfortable because I like feeling my emotions period.
Those that cannot understand this are like children who only want candy, and scoff at eating anything that doesn't provide an instantaneous, shallow sugar rush. And ultimately, they're damaging the world more than you or your peers ever could because they want to censor all the bad things in life, believing that will somehow take away the power these bad things have.
Ya know, I haven't watched The Human Centipede. I think the very idea is horrible and disgusting. I have zero interest. But I'm not going to send the film-makers death threats (people have actually done this). I'm not going to go complain. I'm not going to raise a stink. I'm going to shrug, say "not my thing," and move the fuck on to watching Attack on Titan which is my thing. If people developed the "not my thing" approach, I would be so happy.
I wouldn’t discount the effect of fantasy, though. Perhaps the end result is just to inspire a feeling, but it sounds weak. Fantasy, escapist or not, is a guide; it teaches, it inspires, and it influence people profoundly. Perhaps this is one of those things where when the effect is boiled down to the fundamentals, something seems irretrievably lost; I just feel that fantasy is more, just like video games can be more than a mindless past time. Maybe it ultimately ends with a feeling, but there’s more to it, right? Then again, I may be fooling my demented self.
Either way, I never quite grokked this concept of telling people their thoughts are messed up. Oh, sure, I’ve had the impulse on occasion; but if a thought, untied to reality or action, is to be banned, then I set a precedent where others will, in time, come to /my/ thoughts. Legalism of the mind is the sort of hell I’d rather avoid. If one does not like to dwell on matters disturbing to them, they need only pass on by. This urge, this compulsion to go rattling on about people about what ought to be good and what ought to be avoided is just weird. Maybe it’d make for good conversation, obviously it was enough to get me to chime in, but only as a way to explore a few thoughts; but what kind of an wanker takes a whizz on someone else’s cathartic outlet?
The only answer I come up with, short of your run-of-the-mill troll, are people who have taken up the fight to assure that no one need ever feel anything aside from the warm and fuzzies. Never again. Not ever. Such is life, though. The world is full of such people who probably are well intentioned, even if they’re dooming us all.
Who's closer to being a real psychopath. Those who explore violence in fantasy, never actually hurting anyone in any way, or those who try to hurt people for doing that with harsh and ill-meaning words.
I'm not here to try and figure out why do people accuse me for being... weird (they say). Everyone is different... I've always been fascinated by how different we are from one another. People are telling me there's masses of persons who are all the same but... I couldn't find two similar people in my whole life, not if you get to know them personally, and I believe you can't know someone unless you actually do get to know them personally, regardles of what common things gather people together. To me, everyone is making a point and all questions should have an answer, but is that possible? I should know how they feel deep inside when they ask questions, but... how?... Who knows what made them ask that question in the first place. Who knows how personal that question is to them too? Just like me being weird to them... it's the same thing, it's personal to me and they don't know me, I don't know them so I don't bother trying to explain myself because I don't know everyone personally... Maybe they just want attention, maybe they're trying to win over some fear, maybe they just want to look smart or actually they're trying to understand but they make themselves sound like they're about to shoot me or something. I simply can't explain to them one by one so I just let them be... I'm letting them know I'm feeling ok and happy in my weirdness, and if they can't understand... well... they have their reasons *shrugs* And I'm not blaming them because those reasons might be serious. I guess their group of close friends could help them figure out why there's "weird" people out there, I can't afford that time... Some people do indeed over react once they're out of their comfort zone. Also, people seem to always be in a hurry and not pay attention to detail, they should try to understand the world and find what suits them best... There's a place for everyone. They should fight those feelings and fears, and become stronger... but... they don't... some people can get over things and feelings, while some can't. And those who don't, seem to overreact because they can't control what they feel... and who am I to say they're wrong or wrong in the head? Because afterall, their feelings are real, and I don't know what caused them. I'm not selfish by simply not bothering to explain myself... I'm just saving time because I can't change the world... changing for the better is not a one man effort in the first place. I've got a group of people who do understand me, afterall, and that's my aim! to find those people... Life is short I can't afford too much talking...
That's how I see this.
It's not just that they don't like it, or that they think the person drawing it must be screwed up if that person is not like themselves. It's strongly grounded upon the incorrect opinion that this kind of art influences people to act those things out in real life, therefore justifying all harassment and physical attacks on that person for the sake of an imaginary greater good - and to another extent, it's also based upon the desire to be more socially acceptable to those outside the furry fandom. What they don't realize, of course, is they're attacking themselves. The ACLU once defended the Ku Klux Klan's right to protest in a mostly-Jewish neighborhood, because the town denied them a permit. As horrid as the KKK are, and even worse what they wanted to do, if we pick and choose what's allowed based on our own preferences, it causes our rights to become arbitrary. In that kind of mob majority rule, rights only exist when, and only for as long as, the majority happens to agree with us, and then immediately stop existing when the tides shift, and I would think if the average Joe and their moms all knew about the furry fandom, the general (unfounded) assumption would be that furry porn encourages bestiality. Additionally, it's simply incorrect that "obscene artwork" encourages bad behavior. Anyone who would do such crime is predisposition for it. There is more than one publicly-available study showing that as access to porn goes up, violent sex crimes go down. There is zero reason to be all white knight when it comes to furry art or porn.
"Every genuine work of art has as much reason for being as the earth and the sun." - Ralph Waldo Emerson
By the way, do you still post artwork anywhere?
You know what I think the route cause of this is? People not understand what imagination is, literally. It's like trying to explain a dream to someone who has never slept in their lives.
You try and tell someone who doesn't have a good imagination:
"Hey I'm writing this story about this guy who goes around and smashes people's feet in with a sledge hammer"
And their response is:
"OMG you're thinking of smashing people's feet in with sledge hammers!?! SICKO!!"
Again, how can you ask someone unimaginative to understand what imagination is?
George R.R. Martin writes some pretty horrific events, but to me, as someone with imagination, that doesn't tell me he wants to do these things or that he's even approving of these actions. It just tells me he pays close attention to the world and how life really works, and adapting that to a story isn't a plot to enact it or approval, it's just being realistic in your writing.
And yeah, that's something I don't think a lot of people pushing for censorship think about; who does the censoring? Sure censorship might work in your favor if it's your campaign that first get's it as the new rule of the land. What happens when another group of people come into power? 10 years down the line? 20? What if these new people don't have the same ideals as you, so now it is you and your ideas getting censored? This is why it doesn't surprise me most the people asking for censorship today are children (or think like children), they don't yet understand how power fluctuates. I'm an American who just hit their 30s and I've seen this country go back and forth between Republican/Democrat many times. I know this power struggle happens in other countries as well, and you don't want to retool the system so whichever group is in power can silence the other side. That isn't fun. This goes for all things, not just political power. You want to make sure everyone can have their say, especially if they disagree with you. That way when the time comes and you have something to say that's against current/fashionable norm, you can say it as well.
I've posted a few old (unseen) things and WIPs in my twitter this year. Hopefully I'll get back to uploading at a more steady pace before this year ends. ._.
On a fairly related note. The Vilous fandom. Even though the old days people remember, seem to be covered up and overwritten. I've found this amazing new fertile ground for creativity. I've actually started drawing, and writing again. It's been very liberating.
I've gone through that phase, where an artist hates their old/edgy work and the reputation it attracts... (sound familiar?) but recently i've come around again to embrace it as part of an artist's journey of discovery.
I've always known, being a niche artist has its uphill battles, like fighting a rising tide against the taste of the audience. But i think society has these "overshoots" that go back and forth over the years.
Don't forget. you've got a place, as a creator of unique visionary lore. That won't be forgotten.
(also, some things i'd like to ask about 1on1 later.)