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Zootopia Review/Thoughts (Vague(?) Spoilers)
9 years ago
I liked the movie; I give it a solid 7-ish score. I can only assume most of you will enjoy it quite a bit more, given the obvious theme, so I suggest you all go out and see it. =) Wanted to get that out of the way first because I don't want anyone to think what I say below is trying to discourage anyone from going to the theater. I also don't see the point of saying what I liked about it; basically all reviews are positive, so you wouldn't really get anything but a parroting of what several others have said. So I'm just going to talk about what I didn't like.
((WARNING: The following opinions are my thoughts and feelings about what the movie presented, and really just that. If this bothers anyone I am sorry, but my positive/negative input shouldn't be vital to your enjoyment of the film))
It's a kid's movie... don't over think it.
It's funny to see this popup when someone questions or criticizes Zootopia while it is simultaneously receiving praise for being "deep" and "well thought out" by mobs of film critics and fans. It's almost like the movie is thoughtful only when it's convenient for it to be. The way I see it, if it can be praised for its attempt at depth/world building/sensitive topics, it can be criticized for them as well. I mean, that's fair... right?
Ok let's start with the big one-The Message:
I don't usually like it when a movie/show/story compares prejudice between species too prejudice between races. Both are such complex issues in entirely different ways, you kind of have to handle it with the same care you would radioactive material. I am not completely adverse to the idea itself, but it is usually done poorly, and has since become an outright pet peeve of mine. It's an incredibly easy and cheap element to add to a story when you insert it in its most basic form; the fast food equivalent of story telling. And like fast food it tastes delicious, even if it isn't healthy for you to consume.
Unlike races, species are actually different from one another. By using them, one risks treading into dark territories with winding paths, some of which lead to the unfortunate few instances prejudice is actually, genuinely justified.
That's why racism and speciesism are not comparable at all. That wasn't a problem in Zootopia though, (of course, it was a Disney movie after all). The particular problem with the film was it went too far in the other direction, to the point that none of it made any sense. There was also no finesse to it. Having teeth and claws was akin to having a particular skin color (?). Ok, but there was no other difference between the predators and herbivores otherwise; not in behavior, culture or politics, at least not that I could see. The predators didn't eat anyone nor did they show any interest in such an act. There was simply no reason for the distrust and fear, yet someone (the villain) was so motivated to make them look bad...? It's a tad baffling to me.
It feels it would have been more effective if it gave the main characters one actual issue of day-to-day life to deal with in this world, like those collars they cut from the final film. Ultimately the message part of the film came off as a little shallow to me because of that.
The Details:
Yeah I know, this shouldn't be a big deal and normally it would be just a nitpick for any other movie. But when a film comes out the gates with the creators boasting about how much thought they put into their world, I got to say I expected a little bit more. I know this initially sounds like a nitpick, but they don't even say what the predators eat in the movie, I had to search social media to find that detail out. You can't possibly say that is something easily dismissed either, it's the very reason why this world can exist in the first place. (the answer is fish and insects, btw) Seems a tad bit important lol
For the third time, the movie isn't bad. I can definitely see why young kids and enthusiastic furries think it is a 10/10, but I'm just not feeling it in quite that way. I just see it in the standing I see the original Kung Fu Panda and Disney's Robin Hood, but that's still good because I like both of those.
((WARNING: The following opinions are my thoughts and feelings about what the movie presented, and really just that. If this bothers anyone I am sorry, but my positive/negative input shouldn't be vital to your enjoyment of the film))
It's a kid's movie... don't over think it.
It's funny to see this popup when someone questions or criticizes Zootopia while it is simultaneously receiving praise for being "deep" and "well thought out" by mobs of film critics and fans. It's almost like the movie is thoughtful only when it's convenient for it to be. The way I see it, if it can be praised for its attempt at depth/world building/sensitive topics, it can be criticized for them as well. I mean, that's fair... right?
Ok let's start with the big one-The Message:
I don't usually like it when a movie/show/story compares prejudice between species too prejudice between races. Both are such complex issues in entirely different ways, you kind of have to handle it with the same care you would radioactive material. I am not completely adverse to the idea itself, but it is usually done poorly, and has since become an outright pet peeve of mine. It's an incredibly easy and cheap element to add to a story when you insert it in its most basic form; the fast food equivalent of story telling. And like fast food it tastes delicious, even if it isn't healthy for you to consume.
Unlike races, species are actually different from one another. By using them, one risks treading into dark territories with winding paths, some of which lead to the unfortunate few instances prejudice is actually, genuinely justified.
That's why racism and speciesism are not comparable at all. That wasn't a problem in Zootopia though, (of course, it was a Disney movie after all). The particular problem with the film was it went too far in the other direction, to the point that none of it made any sense. There was also no finesse to it. Having teeth and claws was akin to having a particular skin color (?). Ok, but there was no other difference between the predators and herbivores otherwise; not in behavior, culture or politics, at least not that I could see. The predators didn't eat anyone nor did they show any interest in such an act. There was simply no reason for the distrust and fear, yet someone (the villain) was so motivated to make them look bad...? It's a tad baffling to me.
It feels it would have been more effective if it gave the main characters one actual issue of day-to-day life to deal with in this world, like those collars they cut from the final film. Ultimately the message part of the film came off as a little shallow to me because of that.
The Details:
Yeah I know, this shouldn't be a big deal and normally it would be just a nitpick for any other movie. But when a film comes out the gates with the creators boasting about how much thought they put into their world, I got to say I expected a little bit more. I know this initially sounds like a nitpick, but they don't even say what the predators eat in the movie, I had to search social media to find that detail out. You can't possibly say that is something easily dismissed either, it's the very reason why this world can exist in the first place. (the answer is fish and insects, btw) Seems a tad bit important lol
For the third time, the movie isn't bad. I can definitely see why young kids and enthusiastic furries think it is a 10/10, but I'm just not feeling it in quite that way. I just see it in the standing I see the original Kung Fu Panda and Disney's Robin Hood, but that's still good because I like both of those.
Nothing that I saw really stood out as being awesometacular enough for me to go see it in theatre's yet. The movie just feels like it has this huge hype to it because the characters are Anthro's instead of Human. IE all the huge Fandom Appeal and what not.
But yeah, 'hype' is getting more and more toxic online in general (not just relating to Zootopia)I have seen several youtube reviews, and some of them even claimed this was "the best animated movie of all time". I have to admit, as much as I liked this movie, I cringed a little at that notion. A lot of these reviewers looked just out of high school to, so I wonder if age is a big factor in this. These people think everything coming out now is the best of everything that ever was.
I am suddenly having major Undertale deja vu here =x
A lot of these reviewers looked just out of high school to, so I wonder if age is a big factor in this.
I guess that to be a safe assumption honestly >.>
Kids these days grasp onto the latest thing and put it on pedestals.
Meanwhile us ol Fogies all reminiss about some of the more awesome films of years past ... Like.. Wall-E and shit >.> adorable little bastard
Anyway, I don't really buy into this, kidz today! Honestly, kidz never have been individuals with the best judgment, most of the time, that's why we don't let children and teenagers run nuclear powerp lants :D
The inherent message to why racism is bad is that we're all the same deep down, and we are. We're all human. The message to Zootopia seems to be the same, which means every animal is actually... the same animal? That's kind of weird.
I don't know how to feel about that. =| But don't get the wrong idea, I also like things that bridge the species barrier, I just like things that do it in more mature ways with layers of depth added, like Arashi no Yoru ni and You are Umasou. Both of these are also silly kids movies, but at least they bridge the species gap without mutating all species into the same species. They still address what makes these animals different from one another while also showing how they're the same. In comparison, Zootopia was just far too idealistic (at least for my taste). I see that as an appealing factor for some though, yeah I don't doubt that.
So far every review I found both here and on other sites was overly positive, adding a feeling of something being weird, if not wrong.
Personally, I like the character designs, especcially the fox and feline ones, I even drew them a few times. But from what I've seen through the trailers and movie parts posted online here and there, the movie itself isn't that "woo-hoo awesome" as people want it to be. Sure, they've used new fur techniques and made all the characters differ in height as they should in the wild...
But it is still weird to see so much people being that crazy about it.
And as for the "fandom appeal"... First porn appeared within the day of the trailer being online, and now we have even macro/mico interspecies sex images. Brilliant, furry fandom. Just brilliant.
The film was made pretty much as a Graphics Test from what I remember.
At least it might get more people interested in the concept of 'funny animal' concept. The mix of human and animal has a lot of creative potential. It's really unfortunate that mainstream still sees it as a kid's concept though because you always have to simplify and sacrifice when you make something for children now. Maybe they will grow up one day (or the audience for zootopia will).
Of course, what you're getting at is that a more nuanced approach to the mix is to consider the animals wholistically, not just their appearance and habitat but their collection of instincts, and there's as much of a possibility that predation would be integrated into the population (in order to preserve the nature of not just the predator, but also the overpopulating prey) as there is that they would all just come together. If that's the case they'd either have to supplement predators with farm raised domestic prey or they would evolve into having an omnivorous diet, in which case why would they not also have evolved to live in similar habitats and etc.
A step forward but there's a lot more they could do if they would drop the whole 'each animal represents a race' concept and actally treat them as either human aniimal hybrids or intelligent animals.
In which case you start to run into vore : D
there's like 12 other furry movies and some video games coming out.... should be a wonderful year of noobs pouring in
The Disney Feature Animation team had to focus on fur to get the render costs down, so they optimized heavily for fur rendering and only included a few shots of characters with skin. To do scales, with all of their complex lighting concerns would have raised the cost significantly, same for feathers, which are even more difficult because of their semi-rigid structure. Doing feathers costs a whole order of magnitude more than doing fur due to the simulation requirements for the way feathers lay in overlapping, but organized, layers. Fur you can cheat far easier.
Just as an example of how these costs work in ways you don't expect: The two most expensive shots in Over the Hedge, which was one of the first films to use simulation collision for fur rendering, were scenes where RJ got hugged. Each one cost a few million more than any other shot in the entire film because of having to do simulation for the fur collision and then go in afterwards and manually fix any rig/sim issues. If you notice, Ratatouille (which came out a year later) only includes a few hug scenes for the same reason. Most of the rats never touch in areas where fur is.
I agree with your score though, 7 maybe 8/10 is what I'd give it. It's no Reservoir Dogs, but it's just a good movie.
That would have been an interesting way to present it, but honestly I didn't see any difference to their culture(s)? It all looked like one culture to me, but maybe I missed something =x
As for the prey being treated the way you say, the only time I really saw that in the actual society was the sheep character, and it was less being treated weak and more just being mistreated. It didn't seem like she was being treated that way because she was a prey animal and her boss was a pred; it was more he was just an ass, and probably treated everyone under him that way. Remember, they just let Judy be a cop. Yeah they gave her a bit of a hard time because they were worried about her safety and abilities, but once she proved them wrong, they were obviously perfectly ok with her career in the end. (her boss was a prey animal as well, so I don't think that was predator discrimination)
So yeah, I never got the notion prey characters were less useful to the predators. I DID however kind of see it the other way around, but only vaguely. Judy even talks down to Nick when they first meet and basically congratulates him on being articulate, but that was also the only moment I saw that. Again, it would have been nice to see more of a reason for this "racism".
and their society still typecast each species to their stereotypes
I agree on that point at least.
but if you ask me I didnt really see racism as the major subject but more like just a tool for what the real message was trying to say, I think this film was sort of a quiet jab at politics and how they use fear to make the "little guys" turn on one another to keep them busy from seeing the bigger picture and thus politicians get away with shit easier because of it. but thats just my two cents on the matter, Its a really difficult subject for me to pin down and talk about though.
a side useless nitpick of mine: why do the male sheep have sheep eyes but yet ms.bellwether doesn't????? rather inconstant I think.
Btw i think comparing species to races is in some ways accurate (especially if in this case the species are cartoon human versions of species rather than real ones) because there are genetic differences between both, and those differences manifest in some way. Its obviously much more profound in different species but the parallels can be made. and i think this movie attempts to use those parallels to create an analogy for real life prejudice.
Although in the end, i personally dont think the message was the most important part, it just seemed like an inevitable struggle that a multi species city would face and they simplified it for a more easy watching experience and used that as a point of the plot. Which probably was a better choice considering the target demographic gong to watch the movie. I think more than a message though, this movie tried to deliver nice visuals, laughs, suspense, da feels, and cute moments which it did very well. I can still see why you might be peeved though cuz alot of people are praising this movie too heavily for that message.
maybe im being a dumb, its kinda late lol anyway, i didnt think to hard about any of this until just now, so for me it was just a movie, and a really fun movie, so 8.5/10
A shame. Oh well, Zootopia is still in my top 3 favorite Disney movies, complaints or not.
I think the characters are good, they do feel different and sort of defy expectations of their own species but not super complex at the same time either and kind of doesn't feel like most grow as a character at the end of the movie.
Also I like how a lot of people praise them for going for a mature topic of 'Racism' in a cartoonish furry film but really they are pussy footing it compared to 'Fritz The Cat' that literally show parallel of crows (which is a obvious reference to 'Jim Crow laws' too) to African Americans and pretty blunt about it's racism and violence, not even that fleshed out world and felt more believable then 'Zootopia' well utopia concept. I mean when I think about it now even if I was predator in that world I would still live there cause it's a nice and relatively rich place. lol Probably would've been better to see how Nick grew up as predator then following Judy Hopps in my opinion. Anyways that's my two cents about it.