FA+
Shop
Furry Artists and Fans - A Guide
16 years ago
I've been slowly observing a lot of different takes on this same situation, but they always seem to fall on one side or the other of it, without any real thoughtful discussion. So as usual, I'm gonna break it down, point by point, on common situations and how they should be handled.
ARTISTS
Q: I tried to talk to my favorite artist via notes or instant message, but they either wouldn't respond or were very short with me. Why do they think that I'm not worth their time?
A: There is a very good chance that they don't think that. The fact is, giving people thoughtful feedback can take time and effort, and just because someone is gifted artistically does not mean that they're any good at anything social. But let's assume that this pencil-wielding person is talkative and intelligent, and that leads us to...
Q: I see this artist on instant messaging programs, and I try to talk to them or schedule something fun, but they always end up politely shrugging me off. And on top of that, I see them going off and doing that very thing with somebody else! I just want to be their friend, and they're playing favorites!
A: Yes. They are playing favorites, no matter how callous it may seem, and that's okay. Everyone has to! There are a lot of people that we meet in life, and although they may all be nice, polite individuals, not everyone is really going to seem like the kind of person you'll enjoy being around- it's like the difference between hanging out with your best friend and your Aunt Gertrude. It's nothing personal, it's just that your particular conversational groove and theirs don't jive. If you met them playing a game or something like that and things haven't progressed beyond that, then take them as a friend in that context and treasure that for what it is.
Q: But I'm commenting on their art all the time! Shouldn't they owe me a little conversation in return?
A: No, not really. If anybody, artists owe the webmaster! The thing is, an artist is placing their work up in most cases completely for free, in the hopes that someone else will enjoy what they've managed to come up with. If you comment on their work, nine times out of ten they're going to love the fact that you did. It's a great act of charity to do so!
But the key word is exactly that: Charity. The artist ultimately doesn't have a lot of choice who decides to leave comments, and unless they've said that enough comments will warrant something, most likely you're not going to get anything more than maybe a reply or a good feeling that you were able to reach out to someone who is otherwise occupied. There's a reason why this system exists as it does.
Q: Damnit. My favorite artist just told me that they don't want to talk to me anymore. I still want to, though! I'm going to try again later.
A: Don't. You're really only prolonging a painful experience for the both of you. If somebody says that they don't have time to talk or something that seems a little flimsy, it's not because they're patholigical liars- it's because they want to say something that's not very nice, in a nice way. If you persist, you're only going to warrant their ignoring you or stating it more bluntly. Conversation is a lot like sex- if someone else doesn't want it, you trying to coerce them into it is not cool.
Q: I've been waiting for a commission forever, and all I get is crap about how they're having 'trouble getting inspired' or somesuch. This artist is getting blacklisted.
A: Hold on! Yes, there are a lot of scam artists, excuse the pun, but certainly they're a minority. Let's look at this objectively. Did you ask them to have it done in a certain timeframe? If you didn't, or if they told you it would take a long time, then the only person to blame for not outlining the contract, is yourself. Are they having life troubles? It's rough to do anything creative when your abusive ex-boyfriend is in town or your house is about to fall down around you. Give them a little time, and if you do contact them, ask them in a way that considers that they might have other things going on. And if they don't have anything physically stopping them from drawing, there's still the beast of inspiration. I don't take commissions, but if I did, I'd make sure every single damned one of them was the best picture I'd done to date- or at least a great rendition of what you wanted. Why? Because you didn't pay for whatever convenience could coerce out of me- you paid for art, damn it, and you're gonna get it, and love it! It just may take a while.
Q: This artist's commission prices are insane! Where do they get off?!
A: That's capitalism. They wouldn't charge that much if people weren't willing to pay. It's one of those sad facts of life. And ask yourself- even with how much they charge, can they really live off of that at the rate they make artwork? Highly doubtful. Your fifty or sixty dollars might very well be the difference between them making the electric bill this month and not.
Q: Man, this artist was a real snob/jerk to me, and all I did was state something about myself or something related to their picture.
A: This may surprise you, but the artist sphere holds exactly the same proportion of jerks, snobs, goons and posturing morons that inhabits the rest of the world. "Asshole" comes in all flavors, even "mind-bogglingly talented." Of course, some artists are just a little bit jaded and like to be sarcastic. Try not to take it personally, or avoid and evade.
FANS
Q: Wow, this guy who noted/commented is totally retarded, they can't even spell a damned thing.
A: Maybe and maybe not. People of all flavors come to look at your artwork, and none of them are any more valuable than this particular person. They might be inexperienced or young, or possibly English isn't their first language. This doesn't mean that they don't have articulate thoughts- it's just not easy for everyone to put them into pixelated words. If they're being nice, then so can you.
Q: Ugh, can the creepy perverts just go away already? I'm sick of their dumb overtly sexual commentary.
A: Let's be fair here, you did post a picture of your avatar rubbing themselves to naked bliss. You're drawing pornography! Not naked? Doesn't matter. Pornography is anything made with the intent or ability to make someone or something sexually desirable. If you can't handle that people are going to probably fap their adorable little hearts out to your work, don't make it so damned exciting, eh? You did post it on a public website that anyone can join and comment on, without a disclaimer, hoping for comments.
Q: The comments I get are so stale and repetitive. I'm really sick of it.
A: Maybe your artwork has become stale and repetitive? If there's nothing more to say about it, then you can't very well expect somebody to pull a miracle out of their hat, now can you? But even beyond this, these comments are free, from people who are taking time out of their day to do nothing but pay attention to your needy self. How about showing a little appreciation instead? And if you want critique, then ask for it!
Q: I can't stand these people that constantly post comments asking for small alterations to my pictures to cater to their fetishes. But if I come down on them, people will think I'm an ass! Is there a nice way to tell them to stop?
A: No. But there is a polite way. You simply say, "Sorry, I don't take fetish requests." Ta-dah.
Q: This guy keeps noting me, and I just don't want to talk to him. He won't take a hint! What do I do?
A: Well, first of all, don't explode on them. That just hurts your reputation. Tell them very directly that you do not want to talk anymore, and that it's nothing personal. Wish them luck. Something! If they persist, get administration involved. But whatever you do, don't string them along, or they'll only be more hurt and surprised when you drop that bomb on them.
Q: I'm worried that I won't get this commission done on time, and I depend on my customers!
A: Let them know! If you tell somebody up front, "hey, listen, before you pay me... this could take a while, depending. Is that cool?" If they say 'yes,' what more do they have to complain about? This is the most important and overlooked step to taking any commission- the contract. It's the only thing that prevents people from taking advantage of you and vice versa.
And there you have it. Not exactly comprehensive, but follow this and I guarantee much less drama for you and your symbiotic partners in this lovefest we call FA.
ARTISTS
Q: I tried to talk to my favorite artist via notes or instant message, but they either wouldn't respond or were very short with me. Why do they think that I'm not worth their time?
A: There is a very good chance that they don't think that. The fact is, giving people thoughtful feedback can take time and effort, and just because someone is gifted artistically does not mean that they're any good at anything social. But let's assume that this pencil-wielding person is talkative and intelligent, and that leads us to...
Q: I see this artist on instant messaging programs, and I try to talk to them or schedule something fun, but they always end up politely shrugging me off. And on top of that, I see them going off and doing that very thing with somebody else! I just want to be their friend, and they're playing favorites!
A: Yes. They are playing favorites, no matter how callous it may seem, and that's okay. Everyone has to! There are a lot of people that we meet in life, and although they may all be nice, polite individuals, not everyone is really going to seem like the kind of person you'll enjoy being around- it's like the difference between hanging out with your best friend and your Aunt Gertrude. It's nothing personal, it's just that your particular conversational groove and theirs don't jive. If you met them playing a game or something like that and things haven't progressed beyond that, then take them as a friend in that context and treasure that for what it is.
Q: But I'm commenting on their art all the time! Shouldn't they owe me a little conversation in return?
A: No, not really. If anybody, artists owe the webmaster! The thing is, an artist is placing their work up in most cases completely for free, in the hopes that someone else will enjoy what they've managed to come up with. If you comment on their work, nine times out of ten they're going to love the fact that you did. It's a great act of charity to do so!
But the key word is exactly that: Charity. The artist ultimately doesn't have a lot of choice who decides to leave comments, and unless they've said that enough comments will warrant something, most likely you're not going to get anything more than maybe a reply or a good feeling that you were able to reach out to someone who is otherwise occupied. There's a reason why this system exists as it does.
Q: Damnit. My favorite artist just told me that they don't want to talk to me anymore. I still want to, though! I'm going to try again later.
A: Don't. You're really only prolonging a painful experience for the both of you. If somebody says that they don't have time to talk or something that seems a little flimsy, it's not because they're patholigical liars- it's because they want to say something that's not very nice, in a nice way. If you persist, you're only going to warrant their ignoring you or stating it more bluntly. Conversation is a lot like sex- if someone else doesn't want it, you trying to coerce them into it is not cool.
Q: I've been waiting for a commission forever, and all I get is crap about how they're having 'trouble getting inspired' or somesuch. This artist is getting blacklisted.
A: Hold on! Yes, there are a lot of scam artists, excuse the pun, but certainly they're a minority. Let's look at this objectively. Did you ask them to have it done in a certain timeframe? If you didn't, or if they told you it would take a long time, then the only person to blame for not outlining the contract, is yourself. Are they having life troubles? It's rough to do anything creative when your abusive ex-boyfriend is in town or your house is about to fall down around you. Give them a little time, and if you do contact them, ask them in a way that considers that they might have other things going on. And if they don't have anything physically stopping them from drawing, there's still the beast of inspiration. I don't take commissions, but if I did, I'd make sure every single damned one of them was the best picture I'd done to date- or at least a great rendition of what you wanted. Why? Because you didn't pay for whatever convenience could coerce out of me- you paid for art, damn it, and you're gonna get it, and love it! It just may take a while.
Q: This artist's commission prices are insane! Where do they get off?!
A: That's capitalism. They wouldn't charge that much if people weren't willing to pay. It's one of those sad facts of life. And ask yourself- even with how much they charge, can they really live off of that at the rate they make artwork? Highly doubtful. Your fifty or sixty dollars might very well be the difference between them making the electric bill this month and not.
Q: Man, this artist was a real snob/jerk to me, and all I did was state something about myself or something related to their picture.
A: This may surprise you, but the artist sphere holds exactly the same proportion of jerks, snobs, goons and posturing morons that inhabits the rest of the world. "Asshole" comes in all flavors, even "mind-bogglingly talented." Of course, some artists are just a little bit jaded and like to be sarcastic. Try not to take it personally, or avoid and evade.
FANS
Q: Wow, this guy who noted/commented is totally retarded, they can't even spell a damned thing.
A: Maybe and maybe not. People of all flavors come to look at your artwork, and none of them are any more valuable than this particular person. They might be inexperienced or young, or possibly English isn't their first language. This doesn't mean that they don't have articulate thoughts- it's just not easy for everyone to put them into pixelated words. If they're being nice, then so can you.
Q: Ugh, can the creepy perverts just go away already? I'm sick of their dumb overtly sexual commentary.
A: Let's be fair here, you did post a picture of your avatar rubbing themselves to naked bliss. You're drawing pornography! Not naked? Doesn't matter. Pornography is anything made with the intent or ability to make someone or something sexually desirable. If you can't handle that people are going to probably fap their adorable little hearts out to your work, don't make it so damned exciting, eh? You did post it on a public website that anyone can join and comment on, without a disclaimer, hoping for comments.
Q: The comments I get are so stale and repetitive. I'm really sick of it.
A: Maybe your artwork has become stale and repetitive? If there's nothing more to say about it, then you can't very well expect somebody to pull a miracle out of their hat, now can you? But even beyond this, these comments are free, from people who are taking time out of their day to do nothing but pay attention to your needy self. How about showing a little appreciation instead? And if you want critique, then ask for it!
Q: I can't stand these people that constantly post comments asking for small alterations to my pictures to cater to their fetishes. But if I come down on them, people will think I'm an ass! Is there a nice way to tell them to stop?
A: No. But there is a polite way. You simply say, "Sorry, I don't take fetish requests." Ta-dah.
Q: This guy keeps noting me, and I just don't want to talk to him. He won't take a hint! What do I do?
A: Well, first of all, don't explode on them. That just hurts your reputation. Tell them very directly that you do not want to talk anymore, and that it's nothing personal. Wish them luck. Something! If they persist, get administration involved. But whatever you do, don't string them along, or they'll only be more hurt and surprised when you drop that bomb on them.
Q: I'm worried that I won't get this commission done on time, and I depend on my customers!
A: Let them know! If you tell somebody up front, "hey, listen, before you pay me... this could take a while, depending. Is that cool?" If they say 'yes,' what more do they have to complain about? This is the most important and overlooked step to taking any commission- the contract. It's the only thing that prevents people from taking advantage of you and vice versa.
And there you have it. Not exactly comprehensive, but follow this and I guarantee much less drama for you and your symbiotic partners in this lovefest we call FA.
Thank you.
After saying 'no' firmly and before you get admins involved, blocking the person is a simple and largely effective method.
It would come in handy.
VERY handy.
~Otaku-Man
~Otaku-Man
I think if we all just stop to consider the person on the other side of the screen more often, think about their thoughts and feelings, and appreciate them for who they are and what they do, we can all understand each other a little better.
Yet somehow I like this guide, yes, a lot of it seems like common sense, but it's uncommon enough to be said anyway.
:3 And a nice raed.
What about the rabid fans that attack other fans for being retarded?
*Angelic innocence.*
Also. Because I know there's probably someone reading that thinking "Hay!" I'm being sarcastic.
I~d commission you if you took them.But its very good that people dont take them if they dont feel they can manage them or the stress of doing them.Whenever people take on more then they can handle no one ends up happy.
Buuut, I am playing Saints Row 2 with
One thing to add regarding commission pricing, let's say an artist charges $100 for a full colour digital or traditional commission.
Let's say the rough draft takes two hours, the inking takes another two, and adding digital/traditional colouring plus shading easily adds another four hours onto that. Assuming there's no background, that makes for eight hours, which, divided into the $100 the commission was worth, equals roughly $12.50/hour.
More than likely, it's going to take much longer than eight hours - Likely twice that time and easily up to triple or quadruple depending on the speed of the artist (triple/quadruple that (24-32 hours) would be around my speed). So if a work takes 16 hours, that suddenly drops to $6.25 an hour - That's less than minimum wage here, and it just keeps plummeting.
Then you need to factor in costs of media, time taken for purchasing media and for communicating with the commissioner, and time spent making changes to any sketches that are shown before the ink stage. Time is especially important, and while it's hard to quantify, if you're an artist with a job, and you spend time drawing commissions that you could be spending working, chances are you'd be making more money with work. Time investment is a real issue.
Commissions, by and large, don't make much money. I recognize their importance during times of need to boost funds, but for the most part otherwise it's a way of making some money on the side and of improving, spreading, and popularizing your artwork and providing a service to fans of your work.
A: That's capitalism." "Your fifty or sixty dollars..."
My Q: And what about the ones who ask $500 or $600? Or who say things like, "If you have to ask how much this sketch will cost, then you can't afford it." Capitalism or not, if someone insists they deserve ten-times as much as other artists of equal talent, they're just being an arrogant douchebag. I intend to find them at cons some day just so I can innocently ask how much they charge, and then go "For this? ..." And walk away, laughing hysterically.
"Q: I've been waiting for a commission forever, and all I get is crap about how they're having 'trouble getting inspired' or somesuch. This artist is getting blacklisted.
A: Hold on!"
This one time.. I held on for a year.. or two.. or three. I'm not kidding you. I mean, for most of that the artist was completely off the map with personal troubles, so for the most part I forgave that, but then after they resurfaced and I reestablished contact I wasn't hearing any results for a while, so eventually I just said, "I want to see it by this date, or everyone is going to know what happens when they commission you." Looking back on that, I have to confess that I do not feel good about that. I mean, yeah.. if I hadn't been assertive, who knows if I would ever have seen the work I payed for, but I still feel bad. What would you have done?
"Q: The comments I get are so stale and repetitive. I'm really sick of it."
I'd like to add in my own addendum to your answer there. The reason people give stale and repetitive comments is because, A: They don't actually have a significant thought in their head pertaining to the artwork; they just want to kiss ass because they think it makes them friends with the all-mighty artistic talent. And if the artist happens to be a shallow sack of crap, then chances are their definition of "friend" indeed happens to be "someone who unconditionally kisses my ass".
Or B: Because those of us who do have insightful opinions and constructive criticisms to give eventually wind up offering them to the kind of shallow sack of crap referenced above, and suffer a three-page journal trolling from them and their entire watch list, and henceforth are too AFRAID to offer our honest opinions to most people. I'll tell you one thing I really respect in an artist; the ability to graciously accept my insights and criticisms without taking it as a personal assault to their ego.
Or C: We like to have insightful comments, but have just suffered through the third rant of the week about lack of comments of any kind and are trying to say something more often on the grounds that the folks ranting might be right, and even 'nice art' is better than just a fav.
I wish everyone was as reasonable as you hon. LOL
*giggle*
This is a very informative lesson you have here, thanks for posting it.
How about turning this into a submission Nori, so I can fave that. ;p
simple, easy to remember ^^
let's forget drama and draw pron!!! =D
Imma let my fans fap to it XDDDD
sorry, had to say it
Its not that I don't want to talk with them. Its just that I'm terrible at making conversations, and theres always the same 3 or 4 people who just can't WAIT to say hi, sit down, and wait for me to either chat-screw or make up a conversation for them. ~.~
Joking aside, this is pretty close to how I hope I conduct myself around artists (as I do not have a fanbase to speak of). I have contacted a few artists. Some respond, some don't.
I'd suggest only one addition: artists, if a fan contacts you, tell him/her/hir right off the bat if you even want to communicate. Don't wait two weeks as the fan slowly spirals into depression because their inbox is empty every time they check it. I've been there, and let me tell you, being there balanced between hope and despair is not a fun ride. Just tell them flatout "Sorry, not wanting to establish communication" in a nice way the first time.
For one thing is when one sees a picture or story they don't like or feel is weak in some degree, but they would be afriad of how the artist or writer would react. Like for instance if the creator acts in some sort of negative overdramatic way, or the the poster-to-be would be afriad of hurting the creator's feelings.
This is one of the reasons i like to hang out withfurries, 99% of the ones i've talked to have been super friendly and willing to chat and be friends.
You're fun to talk to, Nori, but sometimes i feel like i don't have much interesting stuff to say, i'm sorry if i've ever bothered you!
A person repeatedly asks for requests when you only offer commissions. What do I do?
Link it so hard, because I'm one of the sarcastic jaded artists you mention!
Most of this applies well to any relationship with no computer screens between you. Some people, I talk to at college, and we have some laughs. Maybe we chat about what her daughter is doing in the States and what I scavenged at the second hand store. Discuss the texts we have in class. We walk each other to the train.
But we don't start giving each other the details of our parents' divorce, any relative's drug issues, or anything likewise. We have one "zone" in common and we meet there and stay out of the others - be that zone Latin, art, a genre of movies, or whatever. It's okay to just be friendly in one of those zones; you don't have to become BFF with everyone.
There are those that you hit it off with right away; people I charge 'n' hug as soon as I see them and we blab on about any embarrassing thing because it feels all right. You don't do that with everyone, can't do it with everyone. Some people are special to you, most people will only be people you function with. If you all act polite and friendly, that's all good, but you can only have so many that you're close with, and that takes some matching dispositions. I think. Those things grow naturally; you can't force them. (I can't but love your comparison of conversation and sex)
I used to get a terribly bad conscience for turning people down (on MSN, or conversation without devices) when they wanted to chat. Conversely, I've felt personally put down because people didn't have time to talk to ME. It's the wrong way to go at socializing, at least it's given me a lot of headaches!
If someone gives me tons of feedback every time I post, of course I want to say "hey, that made my day!" (since it does) but a reply can only reply to the comment that's already there. So no comment = anonymous Wow Thanks. :P while a detailed comment gives me something to reply to.
Turnabout: if I post a picture of a cute puppy, there's really nothing much more anyone can say about it than "oh what a cute puppy!" Am I right?
Sometimes, an odd commenter ends up being someone you talk to, outside of just discussing art; that's an added bonus. But friendships aren't about credits and debits, they're about spontaneous like (a lesson I only learned fairly recently, I confess). I can't ask someone to like me just because I commented a lot. Most of all, because of this: if I like their art, and that makes comments pop out of me spontaneously, then how is that something I could demand a "return gift" for?
And you can like a person's art and not care much for, or get along with, the artist themselves as a person. At least, I can.
I seem to go on forever here. Oh Nori, you get my processors runnin'. Look at me ramble. But these issues 've been on my mind for a bit. You're always so good at phrasing stuff like this! I usually get sidetracked and fuzzy.
I say it so you don't hafta! :)
Bookmark'd.Epical journal
Many probably won't though
But this definately needed picking up and clarifying, thanks!
Seriously though, that is a very well-written breakdown. I know in my case I used to think of artists like celebrities but there was a big flaw with this train of thought. People can follow other people's journals/art/fiction/comics/etc and may they feel like they know them quite well, but to them you're a complete stranger. People are deeper and more complex than the glimpse you see from their creative works and trying to skip ahead from total stranger to friend puts people off.
>inflation
>"art"
>inflation
0/10