I think that sounds right, yes.

Maybe they're just embarrassed they had to go to the furry community to get such a quality suit made personally i dont see a problem with them wanting to keep it private >~<

The only problem comes in when the artist cannot show the hard work and the quality of the product. Each new product made by an artist is ALWAYS better in some way or some how than the product made before it. So when a commissioner insists on the artist not being allowed to post their work than they are unable to show how they have improved. :3

In that logic wouldnt they just wait for the product after this one and then just post even more pictures of it and be like. "LOOOK WHAT I JUST DID." and people would notice even more better changes then they normally would? I still dont see that problem >~<

This piece they want kept private is directly inspired by costumes made for a film I enjoy, and I actually got to meet the person who directed the production of said costumes at a convention and he complimented what I had on (BC the saber tooth) and ever since then I had been wanting to try my hand at it doing work more similar to said film and this commission gave me that chance.

It is a very detailed unique piece I am hugely proud of and was eager to show the world, being told they don't want me to share it has me literally shaking. And now that I know they don't have the right to tell me I cannot share it without them buying the rights to the work at a hefty fee has me dreading confrontation as I am going to have to address this with them and this REALLY SUCKS.

Maybe im just stupid because still dont see a problem with them not wanting you to post pictures i mean its their character or that's at least how it sounds so yes you did the work and were paid for it but the rights to the character is still theirs not yours and if you charge them extra for rights to their character i think that's a dick move... I mean other wise anyone could make art of anyone's character and say they have a right to post it and make money off of it because its "their work" and people would have to be okay with that. It wouldnt matter if it was someone elses character because its their work...see what im getting at? If not i'll give up and you can go about your business and i'll apologize for the interruption

However unless said charcuterie is trademarked or copyrighted they have no right to tell you not to post it as does everyone in the Fandom because at that point it qualifies as fair use if I'm not mistaken?

Fair use: In its most general sense, a fair use is any copying of copyrighted material done for a limited and “transformative” purpose, such as to comment upon, criticize, or parody a copyrighted work. Such uses can be done without permission from the copyright owner. They artist needs permission to post when it comes to fair use...simple as that.

Scratch that mis read it X3

legally an artist is the copyright owner of any original work created as soon as it is created, and as this is my original interpretation of this fantasy creature I own the copyright, so I own the rights to do as I please with images of my work, they do own rights to use the piece as they please though once it is their hands as they purchased the product from me BUT did not purchase the rights of the product.

So then post pictures and if they come after you throw that comment at them and take legal action granted i still don't see the problem with them not wanting the pictures posted but still it seems you have every legal right to post...so do it, you aren't in the wrong in any way and until they purchase the rights it doesn't matter what they say or do (i find that completely stupid that an artist has so much rights over what someone else paid for but eh laws are laws >~< )

It's more for protection for the artist. I mean think about it something that you spent week maybe even months making and you aren't even aloud to be happy about and show it? Especially if for example it's the "best work you've done yet". Sorry I had a similar situation happen to me and said person threatened me with a lawsuit the court literally laughed and made them pay my legal fees.

Personally if i were to pay probably easily over $1000 for a product i could touch and use on a day to day bases and have it insured i would want the price of said object to include rights so that others couldnt have this "protection" or right to something i bought and paid for. Now if they asked where i got it i wouldn't hesitate to point them in the artists or creators direction and in no way would I take credit for it but i would want it to be mine in every way shape and form thats a lot of money to pay for something just to have someone else have just as much if not more rights to it then you the person paying for it. Yes the creator spent hours upon hours to make this creation...but thats their job... they're getting paid for it if it was for free by all means give them that "protection" but its not free in fact its very expensive then to have a 300% increase in price just for rights to something that should be yours in the first place? (again you are paying for it) thats bull to me, but again its the law and i can bitch and moan all i want and its not going to change anything...

Ah but tht as just the thing a thousand to some is nothing let's say this person was very wealthy. Then the should have been honest up front and pay the extra. Again yes 1000 is quite a bit of money for the average joemail but these laws are more meant to protect movie prop studios and others I used to work for a prop shop that made the halo armour for both rooster teeth and the live halo4 armor we lost rights to marketing the halo 4 trailer suit as ours due to the fact theyou paid $250,000 for a product normally sold for $75,000 by our company.

This could go for both parties forever it's really just boils down to the type of people your dealing with since art is truly a matter of opinion on what people like, and how snooty and above everyone they feel they are. Besides if an artist was told the truth from the get go it would have been a non issue I'm pretty certain. Someone correct me if I'm wrong but from what I've read this person brought up that they wanted it private after the fact of paying in full which is then thieving the artist out of their legally required fee. Which is also entirely dependent on the artist. Such is the price of a 100% custom piece of art.

When you buy a costume/fursuit you buy the rights to use it however you so please, you hold the rights to alter it as you please, you hold the rights to not have it recreated by the original artist or anyone else, and you hold the rights to be anonymous as the owner, but the creator holds the rights to say "I am the creator of this" and to post photos of what they made unless you buy that right from them.

I think you and Krystal are missing my point...My point is as a buyer they should have the final say what happens to said item weather pictures are taken and posted or not. (a.ka 100% theirs no-one else has rights to it in anyway shape or form.) And that the rights to say who made it should not be able to be bought at any price. Again i dont see the problem with them not wanting pictures posted it confuses me why it is a problem, but the law states you can post pictures...so do it why ask if it would be okay? the law states its okay unless said right is bought...

That sounds like you asked for it to me in all honestly...

I'm on your side 1000% Beastcub it's essentially taking advertisement same as someone marketing here even via ads it create revenue for you after the fact, and they're basically paying what you have the potential of missing out due to wanting to privatised they're piece.
That being said I've also followed you since I was 15 years old I'm 22 and your work still absolutely blows my mind. And now I'm so Fri kind curious what this "wonderful" client got.

Well like ive said before you have every right to post it you have proven that to me in multiple ways and you should post them becuase they cant actually do anything legally i just so happen to have a different opinion >~<

Posting my work online is literally my only form of advertising, each piece I make has the potential to make someone go "hey I like how she made that, I want her to make me one too." and this one is unique in that it has more sculpting and realism than I normally do so it has the potential to bring in a new range of clients.

If all of my clients thought that paying full price means I was not allowed to post it in my gallery then I would have no examples of my work and no way to draw in more clients. Charging extra to own all rights to the work and thus the right to omit it from my gallery makes up for the fact that the piece is not acting as an advertisement for my business.

What they ordered is not an original character they created, it is a generic fantasy creature and they actually sent me a screenshot of a costume from a movie to use as reference for what they wanted from me so not even the concept images were originally theirs.

so then its just me? okay >~< sorry for the time wasted on me X3

i would say so

I've seen plenty of 2D artist charge a fee for not being able to include it in their portfolio. I'd say request them to pay a fee, or be able to display it as usual since neither thing was discussed before contract for the original project was started.

I agree with you.

I've commissioned MANY pieces like this, and here's what I think:

When two people make a fursuit (the customer and the artist) they share ownership of the project. The commissioner owns the design and the artist owns the finished tangible item. Thus, you BOTH have full rights to use it how you see fit. You have the right to use your own artwork for your own business. :P Same goes for the commissioner when they receive it.

Ask if maybe they'd prefer it if you upload pictures AFTER they receive it? Maybe that'll help.

Just this bony girl's two cents.

~Skeleton "I am a HUGE fan of your suits by the way" Girl

I agree on the art created and a right to post pictures of said art, but if they want to pay a 'hide it' fee then you lack advertising with your work but you get paid for the lack of advertising.

If you don't get the advertising of making such a sweet suit, you should definitely charge extra. You're almost selling the rights to the design /character/original if you don't get to claim photo rights to it!! I know too many artist who sold rights to a suit/species or something and regretted it, so make sure it's way worth it

everyone seems to agree with you, and I do as well. It's scummy to commission someone and then ask for privacy like that's normal. The only person entitled to privacy for a creation is the creator of the content. I don't think it would be unreasonable to ask for a fee or flat out refuse unless it's timed secrecy, like it's a promotional suit for some upcoming video game or tv show or w/e... but indefinite privacy is ridiculous. costuming is ALL about exposure anyways.

That would indeed be extra and should have been mentioned upfront by them.
People do this with art commissions too and its normal to charge extra for not being able to show it in your gallery/work portfolio

I agree but they can ask for who it was made for be private.
Like you can post photos and stuff but you can't say "I MADE IT FOR SOANDSO!!"
I have a commissioner like that. They want who owns the suit to be private but I can still post photos of it.

definitely charge extra, they should have mentioned this upfront

Is it in your TOS that you reserve rights to display/advertise/etc. your creations made on commission? Because if so, I believe asking you to abstain from that is in breach of contract, that they should have been well aware of upon the time of commission. The ball's in your court, so to speak, if that's the case.

Yeah, Pyraff is definitely right about this. It is something to consider for your TOS in the future. The company/individual is being shady by doing this, however making it clear in your TOS can prevent future issues.

I'm sorry you are in this bind and wish you luck.

You have the right to share your work. You can leave their name anonymous. If they absolutely don't even want the creation to be shown online by you, then that sounds like they basically want full rights to it even if you made it. Therefore, yes, you can definitely charge extra for that as you're giving up the rights to the creation. I would think they could at least let you show that you made it, and just not mention who it was for. But opinions aside, it's your work, if they want full rights to it, you have the right to charge extra for that.

Im wondering if they want privacy so they can say they made the suit...and not credit you at all...

I was thinking the same thing when I read this. D:

and now i realize my comment was a reply..wtf FA?!

I was definitely thinking this

Agree. I've always been told that a surcharge for copyright is pretty customary. You deserve compensation for not being allowed to show it in your portfolio.

My understanding is unless you've signed over rights (which are usually done by a hefty surcharge) you have the creative rights.

I'm curious now too if it is going to have a public debut, how they expect to stop either you or other people taking pics and saying you made it, unless they signed something beforehand saying you would not have any acknowledgement of construction, which would be pretty unusual.

well mattering on where this client is i would be woried about "reproduction of a product" laber is cheep in some places it would be easy to get a nice pice from you take it apart and make more parts out of it, i think your best part is to talk to a loyer and see if you can get a terms of servos agreement for your sutes statinng if coppies are made you get like a 80% cut to scare the idea of it off

If it's going to be something they debut to the public, I believe you should retain your rights to show your work on your website or otherwise. If they, the owners, would prefer to be kept anonymous then I would do that. They signed nothing and, given that they've already paid, I doubt they're going to back out if you say no to not posting photos.

Honestly, it all sounds fishy to me. I can understand remaining anonymous, but requesting that nothing be posted about it is a bit much and almost leads me to believe that they may claim that either somebody else, or even they themselves, made the suit. Even once the photos are posted, I would keep an eye on their use of the suit in the event that they do that so that action can be taken. Do you mark your suits in any way as being made by you? Is that even possible?

Though, tbh, charging that 300% doesn't sound shabby either.

For some reason, these people that commissioned this rush job, don't nothing connected with you with the fursuit.
This to me is screaming, con artists or people trying to steal one of your suits to say that they made it.

If you didn't sign a contract for it not to be published then you are in the right.

I don't know what's standard but yes usually artists charge more for the sale of full republication rights. I know I do. That would be a smart thing to add to your TOS for the future though regardless. And yeah I think it's fair to ask an arrangement of that sort with them or just apologize and explain that you must publish it as part of your portfolio and business if they don't want to compensate you for the loss of self promotion material.

That's... Just weird. I've never heard of a client wanting complete privacy like that. It sounds like they want to take credit for your work or something.

I would charge them extra to keep it a secret. That's not fair to you.

Well I just added some new things to my TOS....

If your purchasing agreement with the commissioner did not specifically include the buyer also obtaining intellectual property rights from you, then you retain the IP rights to the piece. And you are permitted to show pictures of anything to which you own IP rights.

If they wish to purchase IP rights from you (and thereby potentially eliminating your ability to showcase the work as your own), then they should indeed have to pay a (non-trivial) premium to do so.

And I am in agreement that updating your TOS to include this distinction for future work is probably in your best interest given how much your portfolio can gain you future sales! :)

A pervert multi-millionaire wants to cos-fuck a character from a film and bought the best from the best?

He's a multi-millionaire. Fuck him. 500% artists rights private commission sale AND a confidentiality surcharge.

No regrets.

i'd make damd sure they paid up front. i don't know anything about laws and such, and they may have legitimate reasons.
i can think of one, like if it were a wearable version of the gico gecco or something like that, and it was going to be used to film a bunch of ads for tv.
i understand that kind of business where big money is involved can be really hard assed some times (though to the best of my knowledge its only the lawyers and ceos who actually are). seems to me fair play under the circumstance would be to charge what the traffic will bear, and a little more besides.

i hadn't thought of what doe suggests, but either way still.

So, I want to clarify a few things.

1. Has the product left your possession?

2. This is some sort of animal related suit, correct? If for a company, it's reasonable to expect it to be used in a public event of some sort?

My thought process on this is as follows. They have purchased the item, not the rights. If the product has not left your possession, you may want to consider insisting on a larger price for them to purchase the rights as at the current time, they have NOT done so, and thus you WILL be posting the work online, albeit leaving them anonymous.

This runs a risk of them walking away however? They could try and get a refund, that whole shit storm that would come from that would probably not be good for business. OR, they could accept your terms and then attempt to recommend against using you to clients who might inquire who made the product. Admittedly, if they do anything publicly, you can sue for defamation, but.. sounds like this is a corporation, so probably a tough battle to fight.

Second option is go ahead and post. They never purchased the rights to it, only the product itself, so you FULLY retain the right to legally post the finish product as advertisement for your skill set and ability. Again, we run into the issue of them potentially recommending against your services, but... yeah.

Third option is to simply bring this up with them.
"Hey, so as an artist, my work is my advertisement. Without being able to show it, I can't get new clients. To compensate for that, NORMALLY it's agreed upon up front that the piece(creation) will be private, and the rights to it are purchased at an additional fee. We never discussed this up front, but I'd like to speak with you about it now, as you're just now bringing this to my attention, after production has already been finished."

You're not in a great position, but speaking with them and explaining how things are SUPPOSED to go upfront and bringing up that you'd like to professionally come to an agreement that is acceptable for BOTH parties would most likely be the best option to pursue up front.

That is actually quite a good suggestion.

By explaining the reason to why and how it is normally done you open up for them to understand youre side of the coin and how you normally expect things to be done while at the same time open up for a friendly negotiation over this matter.

+1

Feels shady..

That definitely sounds like something they should have mentioned up front. If someone wanted to commission me and required that I not post the finished piece in my portfolio/online, I'd seriously consider not taking the commission. You should have the right to flaunt your stuff!

Part of my contract for Commissioners is they have to agree that photos and images of the finished product must be granted to showcase & post on my sites. I don't accept their commission application if they don;t agree to all the terms including that one.

I LOVE your work, and you are very talented. I understand that you want to show off your hard work. Aside from what is "legal" and what you "could or couldn't do", maybe ask yourself what is the "right" thing to do? The reason they would prefer you not to publicize this piece is irrelevant in my opinion. They want it kept quiet. Period. Someone from outside the fandom is not going to know things like "privacy fees" when they commission a suit. I think it is so awesome that this person came TO YOU to get something made for their company. I also think it will quite possibly open doors for you in the future if things continue to go smoothly. Maybe ask this person if you could do some close up shots and post those. Then, you could share your hard work, without revealing the "identity" of the piece itself. As for WHY they may want to keep to themselves, has anyone ever seen the stereotypical furry media nonsense out there? I can't blame anyone for not wanting their company directly associated with that type of attention. It's great that you went so far out of your way to help someone, but that is kinda the price you pay when you say "Yeah I can take a commission at this time" Sometimes, you will have to disappoint people in order to keep yourself happy. As for 300%, if it were a con badge commission, 300% would not be a big deal, but when it is a $1,000 fursuit (estimation), 300% becomes very unrealistic. I really admire your work, and respect you as a person and artist, I hope that I haven't been disrespectful in any way. Just trying to offer advice on your situation, best of luck to you.

Something tells me they want to take full credit for the suit... and not credit you at all :/

As long as they do not claim themselves to be the creator of this fursuit I see two sides of this:

-First is youre wish to use youre creations for advertising in order to generate future sales.

-Second is theyre wish to have be the sole user of the suit you created in order to get the most out of theyre investment in said fursuit.

Even if you legally are in the right to use photos of youre product as an advertising tool for youre buissnes I would consider the possible future income prospect for further projects like this when debating if you should take this "fight" or leave it at theyre wishes.

Sure you might loose some future sales over not advertising this but you might also gain one or more sales in the maskot industry buissnes thanks to being a good customer for them - And it might generate a lot more buissnes in the long run.

So if I where you I would leave it at this and maybe ask them if you could make refferences to them towards other company customers for expanding youre buissnes.

And you might ad a line in youre TOS saying that if a customer want to "me not to advertising the project" they should pay a certain amount of the cost as a fee for this. And never has the right to claim themselves as the maker of the suit.

That is my two cent anyhow.

Im a wedding vedographer and I include in my contracts a part that says I can use anything I film for my own commercial use.

Made my comments to you via Note, Beastcub, as I went on a little bit in it.

Hi. I sent you a note regarding your situation along with a copyright lawyer's info to assist if you need.

Yeah, i was going to say, you should really be in touch with a copyright lawyer on this. My brief education on this says that if there isn't a waiver signed BEFORE work starts, any art piece (I believe the phrase is 'tangible creative work') you create falls under your copyright. That means that the buyer, having not hired you under a Work for Hire clause, did not buy the right to restrict your usage of its appearance (as you are considered the creator and therefore the copyright holder of the work). What they bought is the physical item, the suit. Buying the suit doesn't automatically entitle them to exclude others from photographing it, dismantling and copying it themselves, reproducing it or its likeness for sale, etc. You can GRANT them the ability to do so, and I imagine your financial interest in it beyond having gotten paid for the work is not a lot, but you should be able to put it in your portfolio since you...made it...

Did they purchase exclusive rights to the artwork/creation? If there was no sale of rights... They can be as unhappy as they want to be... But you are still the owner of the rights.

You can do what ever you want to do with that... Even to the point of creating another suit and selling it to someone else.

Unless you signed an NDA beforehand, they have no right to ask this after the fact.

You can assess them a change fee, as it does represent a change in your agreement. Had you known ahead of time it needed full secrecy, you may have priced for the lack of advertising generated as part of your normal workday.

If someone wanted to add wings to a suit after it was done, I would charge them for it. Fair is fair. They want to receive additional value than is stated in your original arrangement, you may charge for it.

You have a right to say no to clients, and do what is best for your business. Be polite, but be firm. :)

I don't know about "normal" percentages for absolute sale-of-rights, but I do know that it's accepted practice to charge a significant fee if the client does not want you, the artist/creator of an original work, to make any public claim whatsoever on the commissioned piece.

We actually covered sale-of-rights stuffs in some graphic design classes I took. Some clients don't even want you using something in your professional portfolio. For those clients who want total and absolute ownership of all rights, there is always a big fee added to the normal cost of the project.

If the client did not previously mention anything about total-and-absolute ownership of rights, then they're effectively cheating you should you give them those rights without charging a big fee.

Unless they pay you a rights-fee, there's nothing stopping you from posting pics of your work.
Good luck getting it sorted out with 'em. Hopefully they're reasonable.

Whitey is right. There should have been a nondisclosure agreement. If they didn't set one up with you before the start of the project, that's on them.

Otherwise I'd just say moving forward, modify your ToS to account for this type of situation.

If they want nondisclosure and exclusivity, I would charge them a buttload of money for the privilege.


If they did not negotiate for such rights in writing beforehand, they are not entitled to it.

-Badger-

You did not sign a NDA(nondisclosure agreement), ergo they do not have a right to tell you not to post them. If the job is done, post away. You're in the right and scot free, legally.

I say post pictures wherever you want. You made the fursuit. Before they pay for it, it's yours. Tell them you need that 300% fee if they don't want you to post pictures of it online. Then see how they react.

There are many who claim things like you should go ahead and post pictures without dealing or negotiating with them.

I STRONGLY speak against that.

Why? Cause they are a company. Companies has lawyers. And lawyers can cause you big headache and lots of works and ton of money spent even if you are right on every part. That is specially thrue in America.

So take every step necessery to make an agreement with them before acting in this matter however right you and others think you have. You do not want this issue to get in the hands of lawyers and courts if you can avoid it with a simple agrement.

Make whatever claim you feel due about NDA and fee for that to THEM but DO NOT make anything overly hasty before you have given them a chance to consider these things.

Oki?