World's gone to shit. Post apocalyptic kinda stuff for real ;(

I'm more pissed than anything
God dammit I hate bigots. :/

Amen!

I have heard and seen some of this shit, but I'm only finding things about the fights, nothing as to what caused them, anyone got a short summary?

Civil war statues are being removed from some city parks, on the basis of "Maybe we shouldn't have statues of people who fought for slavery..."

Racists and Nazis used this to draw in like-minded troglodytes ( from as far as Canada ). Someone will say they weren't, I'm sure. If you look, you can see "alt-right" marchers with swastika tattoos. You can see them using the imagery of the third reich on their clothing, their signs, their shields. You can find videos of them chanting "HItler did nothing wrong," and throwing Bellamy salutes. They are Nazis. They are fascists.

They marched through the streets with torches. They singled out and beat minorities in the streets. They crashed a car into a crowd counter-protesters in an act of terrorism.

The police withdrew at points, leaving citizens vulnerable to the march of fascism.

Some people stood against the white power rally. They fought for their neighbors, their families, against the rise of evil- and this apparently qualifies as 'violence on both sides'.

Common misconception. The Civil War was not entirely about Slavery. Slavery in the southern states was the focus point for the Union to unite the general population behind the war-effort, however, Slavery was not the root cause.

The American Civil War was rooted in the idea of "Big Government vs Local Government." Most Union states wanted a more powerful Central government to handle most things at a federal level. Where as the Confederate states largely wanted Local Government to have the most power, and Federal to only come into play in cases of National issues. They viewed the "Big Government" as being overreaching and power-hungry, and thus, wanted to pull away from the Union. The war happened to stop that. Slavery was one small part of the puzzle, but the Union pushed that piece as a driving point in order to get the general public behind the war.

Yes, Slavery was bad. Yes, it needed to be stopped. But that was NOT what the south was fighting for.

The Civil War was not entirely about slavery. Mostly, it was about economics. It was in the best interest of southern nobility to continue utilizing 'free' labor. The reality was that slavery not only enslaved a people, but also concentrated wealth in the hands of the few. Farmers that could not afford to purchase and keep slaves were out-produced by those that could. The extent to which slave labor was utilized made it hard for free southerners to find jobs.

Money, not ideology, was the driving force of the war. The greed of those that would build their fortune on the lashed backs of their fellow man was the primary cause of the war. Look at the post reconstruction south, look at the legacy of Jim Crow, and speak of state's rights.

A state, like a man, should have access to certain rights- but if a man abuses his rights, he is jailed. If a state abuses their rights, that state must also be brought to task.

This.

Also worth noting that the man who is having his statue removed did not believe in the confederacy and only fought for them because of his homeland falling well within their borders.

It's devastating

To sum up what it's all about:

It is about people on the left removing old civil war statues.

So, the Commie, racist, history-revisionist, fascists (waving communist flags around and screaming to kill all white people) on the extreme-left start a fight with the Nazi, racist, fascists (waving swastika flags and yelling to kill all non-white people) on the extreme-right.

Hopefully they will both thin each others herd a bit.

This seems like a win-win to me.

Technically the left-extremists didn't have the permits to be there, and the right-extremists did have the permits (even had to go to the superior court to get them after the leftist government officials denied them at the last second). Even though I wholeheartedly disagree with the white supremacist protestors/dipshits, they did go though all the proper channels and actually had a peaceful protest and march before the antifa-fascists and BLM-racists showed up and started literally throwing the first stone, then bottles of piss, and clumps of their own human shit, and it just went super crazy from there.

Trump, Pence, and a ton of others condemned the actions of BOTH sides (like he has multiple times before), but the leftist media was so busy blaming Trump, like usual, that they glossed over that whole condemnation thing, like usual.

The mainstream media is breeding this extremism, because it gets them massive viewership and advertising revenue. Just look at all the people that have quit CNN and MSNBC and FOX News over the last few years because of these people not wanting to be part of pushing fake-news and false narratives.

I just hate that people expect the middle-grounders and moderates on either side to answer for the actions of the extremists.

From what I heard some middle-grounders are the ones that were counter protesting against the nazis and white supremacists. Counter protesters were the ones hit by the car driven by one of the protesters.

To be fair, the jury is still out on that situation. Some sources say the driver was attacked and panicked, others say he had planned for weeks to do something like that. The videos clearly show people hurling things at the car and hitting it with bats and large objects immediately before he accelerated into the crowd. Hard to be certain what the motive was until he goes to court.

I watched one where he comes in from some place that appeared pretty empty at full speed. It looks like they only started attacking the car after he'd plowed through everyone. I can see if I can find that video.

I saw a couple of different angles, it's kinda hard to say, at least from what I saw.

They weren't throwing rocks or anything at the guy. He just came out of no where. He made up the excuse to try and get out of it like it was self defense. No one knew what was going to happen next. Those people he hit, they didn't even know what was happening. I was doing some digging and it looks like the car was only hit because it was already driving into the group of marching people. This one is from when he was already getting to close to the people marching. https://www.reddit.com/r/WhiteRight.....at_streamable/
It was intentional. He was already driving towards the group on a road that was supposedly closed off.

Yeah, He intentional used his car as a weapon to attack the counter-protesters. He accelerated from a point in the road that was mostly empty, plowing through several layers of bodies before slamming into another vehicle and then fleeing the scene. This was a calculated and intentional attack, and the man responsible is Every Bit the monster people are saying he is. Right there is the True White Supremacist Nazi. One piece of the cancer eating our country.

Let's... be a little more clear here.

The idea that removing a Robert E. Lee monument is revisionist makes absolutely no sense. Nobody, anywhere, is claiming that Robert E. Lee didn't exist or that he didn't lead the confederate army. That would be revisionist -- revising history such that events played out differently than they actually did. People just don't want to see his slavery-defending ass glorified in a public square.

Let's also point out that you're literally rooting for the fact that a white supremacist "thinned out the herd" by plowing into about twenty people with his car. My friend was in that crowd, though thankfully, she wasn't one of the people hurt. I hope you have the decency to realize how fucked up it is that you've decided that the victims of lethal violence and their perpetrators deserve equal treatment.

And finally... waving swastika flags, brandishing literal torches, and advocating for the supposed superiority of whiteness is not nonviolent. These people want anyone who isn't like them -- like me -- dead. You know what I, a so-called "commie, racist, history-revisionist, fascist" want? Universal healthcare and for the police to stop shooting black people. These things are not equivalent.

If you're equivocating nazis and anti-nazis, you're not a moderate. You're part of the god damn propaganda department.

(Sorry for this, Sal. I just, I can't let this shit stand any more.)

i second every word of this.

the real america is not 'white'.

the real america was here eleven thousand years before columbus.

there is no supreme race.

if anybody wants one, they can take it back to some other continent on the other side of the planet where it came from.

Oh my god! Well said! I'm sorry your friend had to witness that in person. That was so fucked up.

A good quick rundown at least!

However, not the truth. The people that were hit were protesting against nazism and racism. One of the opposing went on a rampage and plowed through people, killing one and injuring many. None of them deserved it as this guy said they did....

Well I read the commentary so I realize what mistakes were within, but thank you for attempting to clarify.

1. The statues were celebrating a racist man and should be taken down to show racism isn't celebrated and either be put in a museum for education or just done away with.

2. The people who were there fighting for equality against the Nazis and white supremacists had every right to be there. It is public ground. They have every right to say no to it and protest against it. Saying that they should be "thinned out" is just as fucked up as what the Nazis and white supremacists want. Good job! You've become just like them!

3. You realize Trump didn't mean it when he condemned it, right? He can lie. He does it frequently. They're just words that he was told to say. He has been hate mongering his whole campaign. He riled these people up and as proof we are seeing more and more violence here in the US. They even dressed up like him and started saying "Heil Trump." How can you say he wasn't the cause of this? And just to note, I'm an independent. I vote for whoever has the best background and policies. I look up EVERYTHING I need to know about the candidates. Parties split people up and cause this huge chasm between people. They also make people blind to the other parties candidates even if the other side has something that's good for them or that they're interested in. Do away with all this left and right or republican and democrat bullshit and maybe then we can actually have some peace and force people to actually study their candidates instead of following like sheep.

I was sickened by the footage I saw. I have a very hard time wrapping my head around so much hate and blind rage.

F E A R

>>>>> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55BCdfUY5Z4 <<<<<<

What a great song, I would never expect somebody to refer to Tech here, haha.

I love his work and rittz speaks to me and my personal experiences on a whole nother level and I don't know many people I get to talk "rap" with. A lot of people hate it bar none because of the usual shit on the radio and all those poor stereo types!

I agree with and more than I do


How scary is this? Put it to you this way,
once again, reality has deeply intruded on reality, so much
that I honestly considered posting a press statement from
the imaginary city and I created. A joint
statement from both the Mayor of Cray City, and the
unicorn Prince of The Forest, condemning what happened
in Charlottesville in the strongest possible terms.

Dread and I'm not a US citizen, nor do I live in the US.

My point of view?
They turned up with riot gear and firearms.
Three people got killed.
The President gave them a slap on the wrist.

The US media I've seen talks a lot of what happened, but I'm more concerned what will happen.

I fear next time there will be more and more of them will be armed.
And if this goes as it often does, more will die and it will escalate.

I hope I'm wrong. I pay that there is a god I can pray that I am wrong.

The problem is, that Trump was unable to get the White Hiouse running when there wasn't a new national or international crisis and now there are one of each.

Look at the "Left" in USA politics. They obsess about Race, Gender, Sex, ETC, while claiming to be about acceptance and tolerance. Yet they're the ones being the most bigoted and racist of anyone.

The tragic events in Charlottesville are the factions of the extreme Right reacting to the extreme Left. Because city officials in multiple states, including VA, have been talking about, and acting on plans to remove historic statues from parks and landmarks. Notably statues of Confederate Civil War icons. They're attempting to remove and destroy what people consider to be 'southern heritage' and to sterilize History from anything that makes them uncomfortable.

Unless BOTH sides move towards a more moderate middle-ground and away from the extremes, situations like this will continue to happen.

And one thing I hope ALL of you will do. Take a good hard look at the Left. Anything they accuse others of doing/being, is in fact, what they Left is, and what they're doing.

do you even know what you are saying when are you talking about left? I saw white supremacists and nazi flags, why are you defending their "reactions" as commendable?

No! Not in the slightest. Racial supremacy of any sort is a vile thing. The groups out there using the Nazi slogans, the supremacist mantras, and advocating for a 'White America', are Vile and Repulsive. The man who used the car to attack the counter-protestors ought to be Lynched! Like classic Lynched.

What I am saying, is that we have to acknowledge where these issues are springing from. This is one extreme reacting to it's opposite extreme. And where was this condemnation of violence and extremism when Antifa people were attacking others in the street with the intent to maim or kill? When BLM riots were literally destroying parts of cities? Each side has it's vile underbelly, the parts of the Left or Right that no-one wants to exist.

That's why I'm begging BOTH parties to take a good hard look at themselves and move towards a more Moderate middle-ground. So we can Work Together to cut the Cancer out of our society.

What the hell?! This is absolute bullshit. The people that were there protesting against the statue being taken down were Nazis and white supremacists. The people that were there to counter protest were people who want equality for all. That doesn't limit them to being "the left." You have the nerve to call out the people who want equality for being against the people who want to kill people for being different?! There was already wars against this shit. Do you not know your history? That statue was a symbol of racism. It does not deserve to be there. It should be in a museum for education rights at MOST. Left this, right that, all of its blaming the other side. I designate myself as an independent. I'm not on any side. I would have marched right along side them against this. You are a fool to believe this type of comment was okay. Shame on you.

See response to the reply-comment above.

but also;
That statue is NOT in any way shape or form a symbol for Racism. It's a Civil War General. Yes, he fought for the side of the Confederacy. But the Civil War was NOT solely about slavery or racism. To quote a reply I made to a person earlier...
---
"The American Civil War was rooted in the idea of "Big Government vs Local Government." Most Union states wanted a more powerful Central government to handle most things at a federal level. Where as the Confederate states largely wanted Local Government to have the most power, and Federal to only come into play in cases of National issues. They viewed the "Big Government" as being overreaching and power-hungry, and thus, wanted to pull away from the Union. The war happened to stop that. Slavery was one small part of the puzzle, but the Union pushed that piece as a driving point in order to get the general public behind the war.

Yes, Slavery was bad. Yes, it needed to be stopped. But that was NOT what the south was fighting for."
---

Perhaps YOU need to take a closer look at the nation's history instead of buying into Propaganda.

Excuse me if my school taught me it was about racism and slavery. Guess my school is at fault then. However, it was still a part of the war and a large part from what I learned, even though you say what my school taught was wrong. Despite that, there is still that symbolism connected to the statue. I still believe it belongs in a museum rather than public space where people will actually pay attention to it and the history behind it. The case here as that the statue attracted the racist crowd which obviously shows that the connection to racism is there. And another thing, this left and right bullshit is getting on my nerves. My comment was more about that than anything and you chose to focus on one part of it. Just toss the blame. That's where my irritation was from. I really think we need to change the way this country handles things like the election. This side, says this, but this other side says something else, but some of them have the same views on either side, but different ways to handle them. Toss the labeling and lets get more education about the people rather than focusing on left, right, democrat, republican, socialist, blah, blah, blah. The past is the past, time to grow up and stop being hateful towards each other. I've got nothing more to say other than I'm sick of it.

*applauds* One of the best reasoned comments I've seen today, and I'm being sincere.

And yes, Schools teach things incorrectly all the damn time. Just because a School or (insert authority here) says something, does not necessarily make it true. As it's said "History is Written by the Victor."

I'm actually surprised at this response. Usually if I debate with someone, they get unreasonable and then I get hate on me instead. xD
I can actually say the same for you. Well done! ^^

When the debate devolved into pointless name calling and divisive attacks, there can be no progress. And when protest turns to violence, we have failed as a society.

This exactly.

Tfw racists can openly march in the streets and compare themselves to people fighting against racism as if they're both equally terrible and intolerant, amiright.

Good, it should be scary. In other places this kind of thing is a daily occurrence, multiple times even. This is why we fight for what we believe in, and to keep this kind of behaviour out of our country, to keep everyone safe. We'll get through this, we've gotten through much worse.

It has me absolutely terrified, if I'm completely honest.

I'm upset things have progressed so quickly in such a disturbing direction - and I'm even more upset Charlottesville involved such a tragic waste of human life.

I hope you're dealing with it alright <3

None of these riots would be happening if the police were more apparent. Back in the 60's there were riots in Berkely and the president called in the national guard to stop them. Now, the police never do anything to them and things turn violent. Rioters and instigative protesters likt this wouldn't be so common if the police would intervene.

This won't be popular but I am not shocked at all.

I feel just as shaken by the BLM and Antifa movements. As far as I am concerned hate groups on both sides have been tearing things apart for a while now, and it's only going to get worse as both sides become more antagonistic towards one-another, and those between.

I don't abide any of this ideologue misbehavior. As such, both sides see me as the enemy.

my father's generation fought and died against this kind of crap in world war two.
of course its been festering since mccarthyism and eisenhour's cold war,
and undoubtedly long before that,
but it isn't endemic to the human species.

my mother's family lost relatives to hitler's holocaust.

when someone says never forget,
to me, it is this.

anyone who didn't know what trump was before they voted for him,
wasn't paying attention.

anyone who still didn't when he appointed banon really wasn't.

God the responses to this post are depressing. The false equivalence and milquetoast, handwringing ahistorical moral-equivalence comments painting anti-Nazis and socialists as somehow just as bad as Nazis is beyond miserable. It's like no one has heard of the paradox of tolerance. Stay strong, Sal, and take breaks from the egotoxicity; I'm more than happy to commiserate, reassure, or distract on telegram if you want (though let me know which!)

There are some silver linings if you look for them: Trump has finally been wheeled out in front of a teleprompter to denounce racism, there's a mass movement and lots of consciousness-raising going on, people are slowly learning… we'll get there in the end.

i'll second this too.

i believe in the universal wonder of strangeness
i believe there is more that is unknown or even imagined then there is that is known.
i even believe there are big friendly invisible things that wish us no harm

but i do not believe in the goodness of wishing to be feared, nor of anything that does.

But at the same time you imply that such groups aren't as bad as others. I don't know how well familiar you are with the effects of socialism, or the nightmare of living under socialism, but it is just that: a nightmare.

When I was younger, I got to wash a swastika off of my father's tombstone, one that had been spray painted there. My father was a soldier, and he served the Soviet Union as best he could. All they could tell me was of the misery they endured under that regime. He told me of how afraid he had been to speak with even his neighbors, that he was so sure someone would over hear the slightest mistake in speech and he would be hauled away.

I do not mean to confine the idea of socialism to the Soviet Union, but to say that they are any better than another, very similar ideology is just as wrong.

People have to know that this is a fight between the people who want everyone to have a fair go, and people who want to be free to think what they want. No group has a clearly wrong motivation, but the outspoken members of each group do well to divide the onlookers even further.

I'm not trying to argue with you, I just don't like to see that people seem so sure that they, or their preferred side is 'right' in all of this. I hate to see people be told they can't think what they want, and I hate to see people discriminated against, but that's part of being human. Each side being attacked as they have only makes said side more sure of their motivations. It's surely worrying, but this is why I have filled a closet with ammunition, haha.

Extremism only breeds more extremism, no matter how good the morals are intended to be.

The road to hell is paved with good intentions.

just as a btw, this isn't the first time for one of these right wing loonies driving a car into a gathering of peaceful protesters.
it happened in reno nevada where i live, during a solidarity gathering is support of the standing rock water protectors.

people really need to start seeing things for what they are, and i don't mean making false equivalences either.

the so called 'right' isn't an innocent difference of ideological opinion. not what its become isn't.

hate of course, only feeds it, and yes of course, that also is the problem.

the answer is that we can do better, by not hating logic, consideration and honesty,

we can make the world a better place, then what those too busy hating to care,

are destroying it to be.

there is no morality, nor freedom either, without universal consideration
no avoidance of causing harm without logic
and without honesty, there is only ignorance.

What a can of worms this page has been.


This is why I dont watch/read/listen to the news lol

I've been regretting this journal since the third comment

I'm going to a counter-protest next week in Boston. Fucking won't lie down as facists try to flood my state.

be careful

With the same kind of patience one has as you watch a wave beginning to form, knowing that if it is too big you will be smashed on the rocks, but also knowing that panic will increase the chance that you lose your grip even to a smaller wave.

Thankfully I live in California, where there is a much higher proportion of rational people who weren't subjected as strongly to the mass misinformation spread by the trump campaign. Even the trump voters I talk to disagree with everything trump has done when I go through it issue by issue, but they still hold on to his core "message" and won't give up their hope that he is working for us. When you really listen to what he says and look at the policies he demands you see he is only in office to help himself and those who helped get him into office. We just have to keep spreading the message and talking about it. When everyone is talking about issues all the time (including people in real life you have to argue with) there will be a change, but for my entire childhood people put politics on the back burner and I hope that is beginning to change.

Just gonna put it out there, it was the socialists who ran the fash out of Charlottesville. Not a liberal #Resistance figure to be seen.

Well, I am glad I'm not a US citizen for one. You folks are in it deep.

destroy all fascists tbh

I've been pretty upset about this.

I grew up in Augusta, then Stone Mountain, so things like big statues of Confederate types, big CSA battle flags, and outright racists are much more recent bad memories for me than my family's heritage of being on the receiving end of guys with swastikas having big rallies. Then you add in the way I lived in Seattle, and live near Oakland these days, and frankly I've seen what the badly-villified BLM guys are up against; in no way does their "please stop killing us" equate to white supremacist bullshit.

I'm also a card-carrying ACLU member, so I'm pretty upset that the ACLU knowingly helped endanger people.

Lastly there's the president's slow, weak, and narcissistic response. This from a man who will thunder publicly at top speeds about the evil of anyone and anything he doesn't like. Even if you didn't see it as proof that a president with a White House staff full of bigots and a notorious racist AG appointment wasn't playing to some of the nastiest folks in society, it's proof that he's completely unsuited for the job. It's going to be a long four years.

It's terrible, I feel you, and I really hope you're able to cope emotionally with this stuff.

Fear mongering.