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Big rant - whining artists over their lack of popularity
2 years ago
I can't stand it anymore, so I'm doing this journal to which I'll point a link to instead of repeating the same thing again and again.
I more and more frequently see great artists whining over the fact they don't get the recognition or even just the attention they deserve. Of course there are often several factors to this situation, but I am exposing here one that I find absolutely essential: SHOW RESPECT TO YOUR FANBASE IN THE MOST BASIC WAY.
You are an artist, you are posting your art because, like every artist we are, not only you love creating, but you also love being recognized for your talent. We are all attention whores, that is a fact.
Now, contrary to the Mandalorian's belief, there are two ways: by interacting with your admirers, or by remaining cloistered in your ivory tower.
Of course that is your absolute right not to interact with anybody, you can have extremely valid reasons for that I know, and I do respect this. BUT, in that case, DO NOT POST A JOURNAL WHINING ABOUT THE FACT PEOPLE ARE NOT PRAISING YOU EVERY TIME YOU POST SOMETHING.
Imagine you are facing somebody with a mask on his face. You are talking to him, you are flattering him, you are asking him questions, but you got no reaction from him. Absolutely not even a flicker. How much time will you continue to try to get his attention? You are going to walk away very quickly I bet.
This is the same on art sites. Your fans are taking valuable time to write you their joy and pleasure looking at your art, show them respect by answering them. You don't need to write an essay, just a smiley or a heart is often enough. The same way you like to be praised, your fan loves getting a fraction of your attention, and above all knowing you acknowledge his move. That he was just right to comment.
If you don't, what do you think your fan's reaction will be? What would YOUR reaction be in such a case? You are going to wonder if you are being patronized, perhaps even completely ignored, or if you just plainly annoy or anger the artist...
I have an excellent proof of the situation, my own example. Yes, I am around since a very long time, I am relatively prolific and I mainly do R34 of famous characters, these are without doubt also crucial reasons for my significant success. But apart from my very recognizable style, I am quite an average artist, not even capable of delivering color works, which is a huge drawback. Yet, I frequently see mind-blowing, well-recognized artists for a long time and at least ten times better than me, getting inversely proportional feedbacks compared to me. Each time it happens, I let you guess the difference I notice between them and I.............................
Artists, take care of your followers. Cherish them as your own personal treasure, they are your reason to be around. The artist-public relation is a TWO-WAYS interaction, is it really to be reminded?
People who comment and fave my works, THANK YOU once again. You probably don't realize but I remember many of you who regularly comment, and sometimes, when I am looking back at my older posts, I feel really concerned when I see a watcher I don't have anymore news for a long time.
I more and more frequently see great artists whining over the fact they don't get the recognition or even just the attention they deserve. Of course there are often several factors to this situation, but I am exposing here one that I find absolutely essential: SHOW RESPECT TO YOUR FANBASE IN THE MOST BASIC WAY.
You are an artist, you are posting your art because, like every artist we are, not only you love creating, but you also love being recognized for your talent. We are all attention whores, that is a fact.
Now, contrary to the Mandalorian's belief, there are two ways: by interacting with your admirers, or by remaining cloistered in your ivory tower.
Of course that is your absolute right not to interact with anybody, you can have extremely valid reasons for that I know, and I do respect this. BUT, in that case, DO NOT POST A JOURNAL WHINING ABOUT THE FACT PEOPLE ARE NOT PRAISING YOU EVERY TIME YOU POST SOMETHING.
Imagine you are facing somebody with a mask on his face. You are talking to him, you are flattering him, you are asking him questions, but you got no reaction from him. Absolutely not even a flicker. How much time will you continue to try to get his attention? You are going to walk away very quickly I bet.
This is the same on art sites. Your fans are taking valuable time to write you their joy and pleasure looking at your art, show them respect by answering them. You don't need to write an essay, just a smiley or a heart is often enough. The same way you like to be praised, your fan loves getting a fraction of your attention, and above all knowing you acknowledge his move. That he was just right to comment.
If you don't, what do you think your fan's reaction will be? What would YOUR reaction be in such a case? You are going to wonder if you are being patronized, perhaps even completely ignored, or if you just plainly annoy or anger the artist...
I have an excellent proof of the situation, my own example. Yes, I am around since a very long time, I am relatively prolific and I mainly do R34 of famous characters, these are without doubt also crucial reasons for my significant success. But apart from my very recognizable style, I am quite an average artist, not even capable of delivering color works, which is a huge drawback. Yet, I frequently see mind-blowing, well-recognized artists for a long time and at least ten times better than me, getting inversely proportional feedbacks compared to me. Each time it happens, I let you guess the difference I notice between them and I.............................
Artists, take care of your followers. Cherish them as your own personal treasure, they are your reason to be around. The artist-public relation is a TWO-WAYS interaction, is it really to be reminded?
People who comment and fave my works, THANK YOU once again. You probably don't realize but I remember many of you who regularly comment, and sometimes, when I am looking back at my older posts, I feel really concerned when I see a watcher I don't have anymore news for a long time.
Inversely, it happened quite a few times that I wanted to answer a nice shout/comment, only to find the guy blocked me! This I don't accept on the other hand, I take this as a kind of harrassment and deal with it that way.
I never saw for the moment artists at the same time disabling their comments AND ranting about the lack of feedback, but I am sure this does exist - this would amuse me to no end!!!!!
But yes, many who do that don't even do it the right way. Some of them are really pityful in the way they are trying...
but good grief, I've seen a ton of no-effort no-skill artists, webcartoonists and then some, whine and complain that they aren't able to sell 1200$ commisions like Strype, or get millions of views on their comic despite their work looking like some MS Paint crap. I will always prefer artistic humility, instead of artists going "oh woe is me, I am not as popular as I know I should be - better blame my audience for not being loyal enough"
As for myself,im not a good artist by any kind and sure im not that prolific,i draw only for fun and share what i do here and on other sites,but,sometimes i bit more support can be realy appreciated.
Of course, artists don't owe us anything either, but that's no excuse to waste time for seemingly nothing.
You ARE a good artist by the way, I certainly appreciate your very special style, the problem maybe is that you don't post that often...
i realy try to push myself to improve but its not a easy task...
Oh and i like your BW works,they are awesome :)
And thaaaaaank you ^^ ^^
Cela dit, j'ai aussi l'impression qu'avec internet et les réseaux sociaux, il y en a pas mal qui prennent facilement la grosse tête après avoir eu une montée de popularité un peu trop rapide. ^^;
La tour d'ivoire, c'est regarder les autres sans les voir, les ignorer alors qu'ils sont sous ton nez. Ce n'est PAS ta définition.
Je ne t'ai jamais vu te plaindre d'un manque de popularité et de feedback, ce sont ces personnes-là que je fustige : il se trouve par un hasard quelque peu malheureux que j'ai eu le coup ce matin même par un artiste sur Inkbunny, alors que moins d'un mois auparavant un autre, toujours sur Inkbunny, se plaignait de la même chose, et comme je construisais mentalement ce journal depuis un certain temps déjà , ça a été la goutte d'eau qui a fait déborder le vase on pourrait dire.
Tu as bien sûr tout à fait raison, internet est un moyen d'être très rapidement une star... Mais il faut savoir aussi que tu es très vite mis de côté et complètement oublié de la même manière. Ceux qui s'en sortent sont justement ceux qui entretiennent et qui s'établissent donc une base solide, indépendante de ceux qui papillonnent autour.
Je dirais que ton journal m'a un peu rassuré là -dessus au final (ainsi que les réactions suite à mon petit retour au passage )
Et j'aurais même tendance à penser que ça pourrait être en partie une raison pour laquelle le public en général semble un peu plus frileux qu'avant vis-à -vis des artistes.
Je te confirme, si tu fais ça, tu vas t'aliéner une grande partie de ton public !!!
Et je n'avais pas pensé à ce que tu as dit dans ta dernière phrase, mais tu dois certainement avoir raison, il doit y avoir une relation de cause à effet expliquant pour partie cette désaffection du public............
I also feel like I must only be following the popular artists, because my whole journal feed is "open commissions / commission stream / here's my patreon" :P
Here in this journal the base was slightly different, those artists suffer from a lack of feedback because they don't interact with their fans, but they often are followed by a lot of people and their work is massively favorited. It's strange because told this way, the reason of their discomfort is absolutely obvious! You can be the most popular artist around, but apart if you are a completely sociopath, it just isn't enough, and you are still missing something, in fact you are missing the most important: people talking to YOU.
My works are moderatly favorited, I'm often a little disappointed by their ratings, but the most important thing that nourrishes me is the feedbacks I receive, I certainly would never trade one for the other.
Urgh, I feel for you, having your journal feed overflown by this kind of thing is SO annoying...... That could make the subject of a whiole journal all by itself!!
Et un gros bravo pour ton engagement aussi parce que c'est certain que ça demande du temps pour répondre à tout le monde comme tu le fais, pas seulement avec quelques mots mais avec une pensée bien complète. Je crois que là aussi, le désir d'investir autant de temps dans la réponse, c'est pas tout le monde qui sont apte à le faire. Et s'en suit les résultats qu'on voit.
Il y a deux façons je pense de commenter là aussi, une "facile" et une plus complexe.
La première c'est juste laisser une marque, qui peut n'être qu'un simple smiley. Je dis "juste", mais pour moi c'est beaucoup déjà : la personne a pris un peu de son temps et de son courage pour témoigner son appréciation, et il faut vraiment être insensible ou être un gros c*n pour ne pas être reconnaissant de la chose.
La seconde, c'est le commentaire développé, pour indiquer à quoi ça fait penser, quels sont les plus et les moins de l'image, formuler une demande de renseignement... Bref, une vraie demande d’interaction. C'est sûr que l'artiste se sent plus impliqué alors, mais encore une fois, le simple petit geste est également apprécié à sa juste valeur. Il ne faut pas en abuser et varier avec des commentaires plus développés de temps en temps pour un même artiste, mais il ne faut pas non plus hésiter à en laisser !
But eminently colorable work...
I love getting comments and feedback from people who watch me but not many actually do. I can't interact with my fans if they don't interact with me XD. I thank the Bobs I have any fans at all of course just wish more commented more often. I'm never sure if it's my fault or some lingering salt from other artists not responding to them? I dunno. I've honestly had the complaint of "why aren't I more popular"... I think any artist does at least once. Difference I guess is that when I feel that pang I just play a game or something... talk to a friend, not post something begging for popularity. Though I have posted stuff asking for feedback on recent works with mixed results lol
You are around for quite some time, so you aren't really concerned by the sad curse put on all the new artsists. So there is another factor here, and one I am always thinking about is the subject of your pictures. I can't repeat this enough to artists who want a boost in popularity: draw R34 of very famous furry characters. The number of favorites I receive for some of my works just speak for itself. That's a little sad to say, but that's the way it is - personnally I have the chance that it is exactly what I like drawing so I don't have to "prostitute" myself.
I've seen you've done some, but far too little (almost nothing in fact) to make it count.
But yes, in my opinion the more important is to do what YOU want to do first - especially if nobody answers you when you ask their opinion!!
in River Cityon Fur Affinity. When I was posting my writing I tried to make it a point to reply to every comment (sometimes all both of 'em).Too many artists make it abundantly clear that they are 'too busy' to respond to the praise and comments of their followers. That's fine, obviously they are lavishing all of their precious time and attention on their awesome, amazing work. (* ahem *) I have followed artists like that, and you know what? That's right. I stopped making comments. I even stopped faving their works. A few I have stopped following.
The kiss of death is the artists who say, "I won't respond to anyone who hasn't purchased art from me or contributed on Patreon." I say, See ya.
So, thank you, and (and sometimes )!
Anyway, I must insist: they do have the right not to answer, and maybe indeed it would take too much of their previous time (not being sarcastic here, for real). What pisses me off are those who do that AND complain after.
If that's fine with them receiving only views and favs without having any interaction at all (and thus often pass for a contemptuous person, even if that's rarely true), that IS fine with me. I'm not here to try to teach others, to show them my superior ways of thinking (God help me avoid this!!), just trying to present the obvious to a few who never really thought about it this way (we all have our lacks) - heh, we are here to help each other explain how some things work
But boy, do I feel ya on the whiny artist thing. This is something I've thought about quite a bit.
There's one in particular that does wonderful work, but constantly browbeats her followers about not getting enough interest in it. I'm really sympathetic, because this is how she makes her income, and she has health issues, but how can she not see how much she puts people off with this behavior? People can smell desperation and are put off by it. -You catch more flies with honey and all... No doubt that she's heard this repeatedly from people by now, but she blocks people who try to give her any positive advice. Such bitterness is extremely unattractive.
I think that a certain amount of this is also driven by social media's emphasis on numbers and engagement, which is very unhealthy.
This also brings up one of the most deeply troubling problems with capitalism. (One among many...) One is always judged on the basis of one's production. How much do you produce? And what have you done lately? Your work is all too quickly forgotten. It's always on to the newest thing; it's a dehumanizing and destructive treadmill.
I don't know that artist you are talking about but I agree with you. I know a couple others who do the same, blocking people who try to help them as soon as they tell the naked truth - and without any aggressivity or anything!! At some point you just can't help people against themselves, and as we say in french, "il n'y a pire sourd que celui qui ne veut pas entendre" (the worst deafs are those who don't want to listen).
Ah, this social medi things, it certainly unleashed a lot of mixed things, so much is to say about their influence...
About capitalism, I believe it is a good thing fundamentally (and I also believe socialism is - a mix of the two in fact could be great), but the main problem is that we have entered an era of HYPER capitalism. And this, my friend, is wrong to the core.
On the contrary, at least you'll be one of those few privileged people who would have been able to make her react!!!!!
I hate when i leave an articulated comment under a submission and i get ignored. I feel stupid XD it's like telling a joke to a group of people and nobody laughs!
At FIRST GLANCE to a submission page you get an impression of an artist's character and concern about her/his fanbase (may it be right or wrong...), and I have to say mine was always quite positive about you. Proof is I do bother to leave a comment from times to times, I would have immediatly stopped otherwise!!
Next time I'll link an artist to this journal because of some popularity complain, I would really like him to read feedbacks such as yours, since it perfectly illustrates the point I want to highlight.
And I share the feeling btw. I honestly feel for these people that entered the fandom recently and can't build an audience due to the perverseness of today's socials, but i can see other artists that are definitely annoying.
Old schoolers that CONSTANTLY complain once it was better, and proceed to ignore your comments.
Divas that get lots of audience but they think they deserve MORE MORE MORE!
I know we all work on serotonin, but you have to at least do it for passion a bit, if you just do it for money/visibility, art gets painful...
That's a good point here, you can pretty often accurately tell which artist works by passion and which one works for money or fame by the way they handle their fanbase~
on the other paw if there are a hundred "love it!" underneath I tend to not coming up with something worthwhile, so why aqdd to the pile?
but that begging for attention... your cat might do it, but once you reach out and she runs away you stop bothering. why would it be different with artists on the internet?
Excellent example with the cat, I'll have to remember that one too~
As for the topic at hand, someone up top mentioned my position which is the wanting to interact with my watcher base/fan(?) Base, but very few comment anymore, or don't in anything you can really react back too like the one word responses 'hot', 'lewd' ECT. Or worse, only contacting to try and get free labor.
As for those that complain about lack of followers. Well.. it all comes with time Few are the lightning in the bottle needed to get instant gratification, but this world has reinforced that it's now or never. Either you get all the attention now, or it never comes. Worse that many also don't want to put in the leg work.
You are a 3D artist - I noticed that it often attracts a kind of public accustomed to consume porn fast, in industrial volume, above all when herms and big boobs are concerned. I can be totally wrong of course, but I believe you would gain a lot from doing a lot more "simple" pinups. What I mean by "gain" is that the porn public is very volatile, while the pinup public is a lot more faithful. And a faithful public is of course more inclined to interact than passing bystanders. Or so I think.
"This should be animated." Is a common line from folks, many not understanding that one second of 'good' animation takes a disproportionately large amount of time to compleat. I have worked freelance as an in-betweener/animator. They don't tend to like hearing that reality.
However hmm, a good point all and all. I should try that a month. Tho I have a complexity addiction. Might come from the oversaturation of pinup prices or low effort 3D things some do, but I seem to always be making my images bigger as I work on them. Wanting to use this or that kind of character. Use up that negative space... It's funny.
It is just hard to 'qualify' yourself with this fav system. (And oh yeah the vast majority of favs are from completely blank accounts too). There is something horribly demoralizing and draining about posting stuff you spent so much time on, and seeing others put up awesome stuff without getting more than a couple of comments. At the end of the day it doesn't really make you feel appreciated at all, just playing a numbers game on something where you're part of a vast flood of unsorted content. And it's really hard to comment as well, without feeling like you're an idiot or you might have said something offensive because everyone is so sensitive to casual comments... And that the only way you can really 'get appreciation' is to dip into content you don't want to, or do things for money where you end up with a few 'sugar daddies' basically telling you what to do with your work because they're paying you for it. The whole system sort of makes it 'like this' so I don't really blame artists for feeling like that; FA can feel really rewarding when you happen to make something everyone likes, it's a massive dopamine release, and then when it doesn't happen again it's worse than where you were before, and sadly it really has nothing to do with one's overall 'corpus' of work. There's some missing connection to doing this thing that's deeply sexual and personal and connective in a setting that is ultimately isolative and more about being popular than having a conversation, applause rather than meaning.
On the other hand, I am also amazed they still have "so many" followers in these days of image consumption where an article more than three paragraphs long is a real headache for half the population...
I can only wish you all the best from the deepest corners of my heart Scratchel!!
This being said, those who made me make this journal are rather of older generations, they still ask for some interaction, without understanding they have to boost them themselves. Newest generations just don't interact at all.
I appreciate anytime someone post on my work and will always comment back...the majority of the time, lol.
Sometimes they do leave me speechless.
But, that's the Internet as a whole these days. The thing that really boils my blood is when YouTubers pin their own comments to post sponsor ads. I mean, they have an entire video to do whatever they want, but then they have to spam their own comment section to post more ads? Do they really have that little respect for their fans?
Kinda saps all the fun out of the fandom, y'know?
For people who feel like they are constantly chasing an ever more scattered audience. the program itself can remove quite a bit of tedium. I check my comments everywhere, including the sites that I let the machine upload to. If anything, using it properly leaves more time for reading and responding to comments.
The other way around, I am quite delighted when I see some youtubers able to integrate their sponsor in an intelligent way in the middle of their video - I remember one even made me almost choke to death laughing! This is plainly becoming art.
Sites like twitter and instagram are wastelands for some artists, with the mechanisms hiding your work from others for reasons that will never be explained, while some people seem to have no trouble exploiting it, and the system can start to seem rigged. More and more traffic is directed and hijacked by non-human entities or cynical cash-grabbers who seem barely any better. And you have to use loads of these dumb sites, with new ones showing up all the time, if you feel dissatisfied and want to reach new people. Like artfol and inkblot and buzzgrob and sheezylump and then after you have reuploaded all your stuff again oops this site is dead or disreputable, time to move on to the next. It can all be draining for genuine people, while the hollow ones easily play along or disregard it and get revered either way. I don't pay attention to what they are doing if I have a choice, but if I were someone who did pay attention just because I thought I had to or because I knew other people who did, I would be a miserable wreck.
Also, the newest generations have another relationship to consumption and interaction. The explosion of choice leads to a depreciation in attachment. Look at singers and movie stars: you are under the spotlights oneday, you are forgotten the day after. When you post a comment on social media, it's not to discuss on a topic, it's to invalidate everybody else's (if you ever read any of the other comments, that is...) and enforce your opinion.
Now the next step, the new AI world that's on its explosive way right now, is something I am extremely curious about. There is no denying it will have an extremely deep impact on our societies, some jobs will suffer immensely, some others will benefit of it or maybe even will be created, the legal world is going to have a deeeeeep brainstorm about it... It's at least as groundbreaking as the internet was.
I can understand why folks complain though, FA is such a different place now. Fmirsokp made some great points in a comment above. It used to be so much easier to get noticed here, but now the site is so busy and oversaturated with new artists, its very, very difficult to stand out. Folks rarely comment anymore, I'm not sure why, maybe they're burned out on commenting, maybe they're also anxious, or maybe they're sick of leaving comments and getting ignored, so they don't bother anymore. I don't really comment on things unless I can think of something fun or interesting to say because I don't want to bother folks.
Honestly I can't help but feel like I'm getting out of touch some days, lol. I don't know what sites people are using to find art now. I don't know what content people want to see now. The art world has definitely changed a lot over the last decade! I feel sorry for artists trying to make a name for themselves nowadays.
Many people seem to use Twitter these days - it's true that you can have a great exposition there and it's perfect to do business, but Twitter is definitely NOT an artist site. And I'm not even talking about the kind of population and all the drama there... Well, it helps sort between the artists with their fans and the merchants with their clients~
I always did treat this page as a community afterall, you need to give some if you want to take some. Even that simple "thank you" or "heart" already gives the other person knowledge that their comment didn't go out into the empty void.
That's quite funny actually, but always MUCH appreciated
I try to reply to every single comment I get. I don't get them much and I'm neither good nor popular so I just draw for my own enjoyment primarily (kinda why there's so much fanart of pokemon and my celebi oc with females from various franchises or friends' ocs I find cute). I do get a commission like once a year or so but I don't mind since it's really only a hobby. Regardless, I try to treat anyone who stumbles upon my stuff with respect, as long as they're not bots or someone who outright is unpleasant.
You draw for your pleasure, you take pleasure from your fans comments and give them joy by replying, all is for the best!!
I try to comment on stuff and replies (or looking and reading them, at least), when I have the time and energy. Used to do tons more, though. Sometimes, the fav button is just too easy to press, though.
*offers cola*
Thanks for the cola, gets quite well with the snickers offered by
One artist was doing very well. They drew a wide range of stuff and people liked it. As their fame grew, they drifted into a certain fetish group; I think it was due to giving in and drawing some stuff for them at an increased pay rate due to the subject matter and getting praised to high hell and back for doing so. Their normal fans didn't really like the content and said as much. The artists reaction? He started ONLY drawing that stuff, and when people started unwatching him for the content shift, they eventually quit the fandom.
Another artist was also doing very well. I think they were the originator of the 'aeromorph' concept. People were VERY happy with all their art and their art style. As it reached a crescendo though... they kinda snapped. Suddenly, everyone who was praising their art secretly hated it (in this artists mind), and the artist in turn hated everyone who was telling them their art was great (very much in the open). People all reacted like this: o.o;;; ...and then kinda backed off. As if to cement people losing interest and leaving them alone, they sold their most iconic character to someone else who immediately put a ban on that character ever being drawn again. The artist seemed surprised that people stopped talking to him and praising him after this, asking 'What's wrong guys?' then for some reason completely changed their art style and subject material (not for the better, IMHO). I now only tend to think of them in the past tense, when their art was great.
Lastly, it was a person I knew who was a GREAT artist, but they themselves wanted to be huge and well known. They had their followers who constantly had to tell them their art was fine and to just keep at it. They were very skilled at storytelling and character design. But the fame wasn't enough, so after a brief stint at working in manga, they gave up and left the fandom. Not because people didn't like them, not because of a lack of skill or effort... just because 'not enough people like me'. I always felt bad about it, because they were one of the better artists I knew.
Admit it, you never saw so many so-called "autists" and "bipolars" than here on FA, right?!!
So yeah, all that to say that I believe these examples you have cited must have slowly succumbed to the most obscure part of their artist condition unfortunately.
The deliberately crafted environment of social media has unfortunately shaped its userbase and cultivated an unhealthy, constant sense of competition, something which has even made its way back to gallery sites. What once was sufficient attention is reframed as no longer enough, and younger artists are pushed to fight for a level of engagement that is unsustainable. I think the internet as a whole will eventually evolve past this era, but it's going to take a while yet for the zeitgeist to be exorcised. (I mean, it always does, right?)
I half understand that impostor syndrome. Being afraid not to live up to expectations, yes, that's definitely a phobia everybody who wants to please the persons counting on them have. It's even a motor to always get better. But when people, no, when SO MANY people tell you you are a great artists, why not accept the fact? Of course, it's never an excuse to be full of self, we always have to keep our heads cool because, of course, there will always be somebody "better" (as much as is means something, because you can never really introduce a value scale to arts and styles), but your art is beloved because it's YOURS. Especially in your case, you are one of those artists immediatly identifiable, and that's ALWAYS a plus.
Ha, the dopamine thing - yes, we are here today, of course, just ask those who created Facebook and Twitter.............. Be careful please, don't make it a drug and waste your life in those. Rather get your dopanime by accepting that you are not perfect, but we love you for what you are, and because you are not perfect!!