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Ranting some thoughs
5 months ago
Im putting myself in to vulnerable position by sharing so much but i feel like i gotta let it out.
Lately i have been kinda mentally breaking, trying to suck it up, having brave face on public assuring that things will get better. Hoping the feeling will go away but its getting worse.
I find myself not enjoying drawing anymore (exception being merch, i love designing merch)
since the AI became a thing i have been feeling that i never be good enough, how could i be good enough, im not fast enough, I can't compete with the speed or quality of the machine operated by trashy humans making a huge bank at our expense and really few people care.
My slowness with the improving and slower art speed didnt bother me that much before AI since all artists were on the same boat, but now we are on the timeline where quantity is everything and unrealistic for artists to do.
Multiple artists using AI tracing, heavy referencing, generating themself. Some get called out, some fly under the radar and majority of the people don't care, as long as they get their daily dose of fap material it doesn't matter how its made.
I have been blocking each and every account who uses or supports AI images and the number goes from few to hundred every day. Strangers, familiar faces, friends who just don't care anymore, dont think its big deal, are innocent enough not to read bio or even think to suspect something being AI.
i have been waiting for new laws to come in to place that regulates that shit but more and more huge companies are using it now so i dont think its looking good for artists and all the lawsuits who should be clear win cases are dragging on for years. AI companies trying to get rid of copyright fully.
Disney can scare AI companies with their big corpo money but does small fry like me have any chance to defend myself?
i nightshade and glaced for a long time now, i don't think we are seeing any difference. Every new piece i make is fed to to machine.
I can't quit drawing since its the only thing im somewhat good at and like doing and brings bread on the table. As much as I don't enjoy drawing anymore, regular jobs were more draining mentally and physically and didnt leave any energy for free time hobbies.
Mech brings only pocketmoney here and there that goes fully in taxes so cant just become merch only artist just like that either.
What i like about merch designing its something hard to describe. My skill and vision turned in to physical product by people who believe in me. Bought by people who liked what i did enough to want to buy and have their own.
I suppose its the same with usual patreon waifu art, or it was. People like my vision and skill enough to subscribe to me to see more and support me doing more of that since they like it :p
Now my lifetime of work can be taken by who ever and do 100 more any waifus with it in a minute and i can't do anything about it.
There will always be people who support artists but the numbers keep going down which is not gouraging.
Will the "adapt or die" truly be the future of art?
Surely AI will die if there isn't new art fed to it each day, considering that its weird how big boner AI bros get from artists suffering.
There's still a limit to what they can make, they don't have imagination, they don't have potential like you do. ^w^
Art is only as valuable as the skill of the people who made it. If AI slop takes over even more, then handmade art such as your own will become even more valuable via supply and demand. The last thing you should do is let it keep you down because that's exactly what the techbro's peddling this garbage want.
The less real artists still making stuff, the more money they can make with the slop they want to replace it with. And skilled artists like you continuing what you do best in spite of it all is strong resistance in and of itself.
Sadly I can't tell the difference between Regular Art and AI Art. : (
I have to depend on the artists saying what their content is. I've been fooled many times. I see art and think it's amazing then learn it's AI Art and am really really really bummed cause it looked so good. : (
*Hugs*
On the other hand who if not the artists will resist it?
No matter what, never give up, you have only one life.
"If I had died right then,
my epitaph would have read:
Could have been an artist."
- Ron Rodecker
Sure, an AI ‘artist’ could generate thousands of pics in the time it takes an actual artist to draw up a single piece, but what they generate will always feel flat/depth-less and soulless, especially with those ruptured egg yolk eyes, and will never be exactly what’s requested of them because of the random nature of generating something from a thoughtless machine throwing darts at a wall and hoping to even hit the board once or twice.
Something I don’t get is how some image hosting sites can take in all those AI generated pics in the hundreds of thousands per month without seemingly worrying about how much storage fees would cost harboring all that slop…
All I can really say is please don’t be too too hard hard on yourself, parts of the world are in a weird place economically right now, which probably adds to the feeling of less and less people willing to buy art. I’m sure there’s a lot, maybe more than ever before that want something drawn for them, they just can’t really afford it right now. Also, eventually, people will see how shallow AI art really is and hopefully veer away from it, at least those with still developing good morals.
Just don’t let those pureblooded AI bros get under your skin. Do what you love, draw what you want, and create, knowing that deep down those AI bros are jealous that you can draw your visions in your head to the detail and exactness that they will never achieve.
Fortunately the fact that humans simply cannot draw that fast may be the doom of generative AI, as it’ll take in everything humans make, and then everything that people generate with it. If more people keep turning to generating, then it’ll have more of it’s own output to feed on, which will just keep making that training data worse and worse, even if the companies go back and force their system to retrain older data.
Sooner or later they will screw themselves over totally by virtue of being faster than the raw material they train on, not that we shouldn’t continue to work against it anyway with Nightshade and Glaze, or whatever else comes out to help protect against such infringement.
The way I understand, you can't tell ai to "slant the eye a little more" or "change the color of this specific part" (though admittedly I'm not sure if that's a possibility now but I doubt it). Of course one could take an ai generation and photoshop it, but that takes an artist, doesn't it? We can never be replaced. The discerning art appreciator knows this already, and comes to you - the artist - to provide them with something that resonates with their soul using YOUR ability to do it. Not the machine.
AI scares me so fricking much and so it does for many artists, who uses their time and skills to create something beautiful to enjoy.
I really hope, that laws against AI will be coming and that those are very strict and hopefully, someday it would end this nonsense (yeah, a little bit stupid dream).
But then again, if we let AI win, things might get ugly and deliver final blow to the artists, who makes living by their creations, who enjoys it etc.
Ugh, I suck at explaining.
Anyway, comparing yourself to AI is horrible and I hope you can someway to get over this feeling and fear and start enjoying to draw again.
To me, the only place where I am fine with AI are the silly youtube videos with the AI voices (for example stuff like trueblade seeker and sonic discord server) where they are clearly not taking themselves seriously and I would classify it as the "stupid kind of funny".
As for AI with art, its fun to just mess around with (for example, create a rough background scene which I could then draw my own interpretation of), but it isn't art if you didn't pick up a pen or other drawing tool and actually draw it yourself.
Everyone here understands your insecurities and fears
Try looking within yourself and remember why you love making art in the first place
That's the best thing you can do
I have loved your art work for ages, i hope you won't give it up, but i understand the stress and heartache of trying to do something which you loved but slowly struggling to enjoy enough to do the basics.
i'm sure many of us thank you and are grateful for your wonderful work.
AI must die, instead of artists
That being said and with the greatest of respect. This is how I felt about big artists on here who could take maybe 10 or 20 commissions a month and make a good amount of money doing it when it took me a week to finish one piece 1/8 of the quality. It made me so mad, so discouraged and hopeless. And ultimately I gave up my art. It's so hard for beginner artists to get their foot in the door, and a lot of people can't afford to commission art. A lot of people have amazing ideas but don't have the talent or the money to being it to life.
And whereas I don't support AI taking jobs away from human artists, I have to gently remind everyone that once upon a time digital artists were being judged the same harsh way and pushed traditional artists out of business. I think whether we like it or not AI is just going to be a part of furryart in the future and all we can do is draw our art with love and affection and make pieces that people treasure and want to keep forever.
All the best,
Stay strong and don't give up!
Camaro.
Every artists has started from 0 and needed to build their skills for years and years. For some it takes longer to learn than others and some got more time in their hands for art but we all got equal chances to learn to draw.
Digital art is still drawing the art on your own. World might prefer digital over traditional but they both needs capable human to do the art. Unlike AI that only smashes existing images together.
I still read your message the same way i did before and reply being the same.
Theres only one Teranen.
I know it feels AI may give itself a leg up to your level, but it doesn't have the special sauce you have. Your characters drip with charm, beauty and form and that is a 'whole' that's hard to replicate.
I think soon there will be a hunger for the authentic. Everything goes in cycles, this is just a suprising artificial one for now.
Besides, it's not even real Artificial Intelligence. They're just using it as a buzzword to hide the fact that it's basically the same tech Google's been using to target ads for over a decade now. Unless the bot can tell you to fuck off, it's all just algorithms and plagiarism.
I understand the fear, but all this remember me of photography in the late 19th century, where artists (especially portraitists) was scared, but then expressionism were created and before the Impressionists used photography for their works.
What I mean (in terrible English, probably) is that the AI is a tool, not a rival.
That’s my two cents.
I hope you'll feel better, peace.
While many of the crafts and what not that encountered such did adapt, there were still many people who could no longer afford to keep doing things that way. And had to leave such skills in the past. That is the worry of many artists who draw things at the moment, of some writers, of some of the people who create music, etc. As much as it is a tool, it is a rival. It is competition, and there will be people it out competes and forces out of the field/hobby/the very means they've come to make a living. Like with all new technologies, their will be winners and losers.
I of course think that in the long run, the fact it is able to produce so much will be its own sort of undoing. I could, of course, be wrong.
As far as work is concerned, history teaches us that manual jobs do not disappear, at most they become niche.
Market saturation will be inevitable, also because it probably already was before the ai.
But a good artist will remain a good artist and will know how to get noticed.
Will it be even more difficult? Probably yes, but it is what it is.
For many artists, it is not JUST a hobby, it is a living. And for many artists, they will NOT be able to compete. No matter how hard they try or push, they just won't be able to compete. And therefore, their income that is what they use to pay their bills and stuff will fade until it is either not enough, or barely anything.
Like sure, yes, for the people for whom it is truly a passion hobby thing, they'll likely keep doing it. Some will do so out of spite if nothing else at a certain point. But you WILL see many artists just give up because they won't have the time or the energy to devote to it because they are now having to find other means to keep themselves afloat. Which of course, will then make what they are able to make be even less noticable because the amount they're doing drops from what it was previously while the AI stuff just keeps getting churned out.
There will be artists, good artists even, who stop being good artists because they simply can't do it anymore. And that will be a sad thing for them and for the art world itself.
Its that kind of thing that leads to journals like this, and why many artists aren't happy with AI stuff. They realize that many of them aren't going to be able to be part of that niche and that they're place in the field is going to disappear. And that scares them, depresses them, and infuriates them.
One of the reasons Teranen is saying this is because of the uncertainty. They are a great artist. But even they could wind up one of the losers, one of the folks that gets boxed out by AI.
There is no guarantee for any of the artists out there that they will be someone who emerges out the other side still able to do it as a living and or a hobby.
If it's a hobby you do it for you, it's not your job, so you have no reason to quit.
If it's a job, and you have no success or fear you won't make it then I can understand the reasoning.
I'll answer by quoting you so it's easier: ‘They realise that many of them aren't going to be able to be part of that niche and that they're place in the field is going to disappear’.
Well, it wouldn't be a niche otherwise.
And I would also add that it was already difficult to be part of it before ia. The only difference is that now people will have to scroll through more images.
"They are a great artist. But even they could wind up one of the losers, one of the folks that gets boxed out by AI'
It is the market that chooses who will succeed. The guarantee of success has never existed. Never.
So if you tell me: It's harder now and some artists are afraid they won't make it; I say, I understand.
But that doesn’t mean that they are right.
As I've said, I'm someone with mixed views on the whole thing. I'm someone who has had people say things towards things I've created that sounds similar to what the AI gen folks get. Be it things like fanfics, furry erotica, or sprite comics, some of the comments I'll hear from the folks against it has echoes of things I've been told here and there over the years.
I also fully grasp and understand (and most importantly, sympathize) with the artists and their points of view, even if in some points I have some level of disagreement.
The artists have points. Valid points, and reasonable fears that plenty of folks seem unwilling to really address. Some (keyword SOME) of the Gen AI folks also have valid points, and SOME of them have a right to be angry at the way some folks respond to what they are doing. (the rest are greedy fuckwads who can be yeeted into the atmosphere for all I or anyone should care)
Neither side, at least for now, is right or wrong. But the situation can very much be described as something that is going to be unfair to alot of people, and people are very much allowed to view that part at least as being wrong or bad or a tragedy.
(Which ya know, I do!)
It's not the people, but the capital that moves goods and stocks shelves that decides whom succeeds in commerce. You can like another product better, but if logistics does not allow you to buy said product except for a massive cut above stock price, most people will buy the cheaper inferior product even if they don't want to. Trickle down economics is bollocks for the most part.
Generative AI is fed with actual artists work so AI users can literally replace them.
In that case the solution it’s simple: just make closed databases.
We just have to wait and see what the law will say.
And the UN is basically worth shit, as long as the US is a member of the UNSC with veto power.
Photography and painting are 2 really different things on which both the human is very much needed and nobodys existing work is getting taken and fed inside the camera
Ai cant be a tool before it ethically made with only the art used with permission
And isn't photography itself in art?
Yet all it takes is the push of a button.
I find the parallelism extremely fitting.
And also, is a human not necessary to use ai?
Where does the idea of creating an image come from? Who writes the prompt?
In this sense there is no difference with a pencil. It is, instead, a different way to achieve the same result.
As for the ‘stealing’ issue. The ai does no more and no less than what a human being does: it reprocesses information.
If, on the other hand, we pose the question from an economic point of view, the solution is simple: closed databases, as you also said. That is if we can speak of plagiarism.
Anyway, I wish you well again and take the opportunity to congratulate you on your work.
i dont even know what all goes on behind the scenes but those come to mind first.
Nothing was taken from the artists in the process.
Sure AI needs human to type the desired description But they didnt create anything themself, just computer mashing together stolen images fitting the description. Not capable of coming up stuff that hasnt been been fed to it first, no imagination or ability to make decisions. That cant in any way be compared to how human thinking and learning works. We cant just magically know how to draw things once we see them.
Keep up the good work!!
The point, however, remains. Mine was a historical parallelism where I pointed out that this is not the first time that artists behave this way.
And they said the same things about photography: it's too fast, it's too cheap, it's too simple.
Again, I didn't say that, 19th century artists said that.
A debate/conversation is 2 sided, and thus either side shouldn't dismiss another's point, (whether brought in later in a discussion) as invalid.
To extrapolate upon DemomanGuy's comment:
Photography was developed in its own means, and the inventors themselves profited. (Paintings were not used to create the Camera Obscura.)
A! is comparatively different in that visual arts were directly used as part of the building blocks (scraping) to build the end product, however the artists is/are mostly unpaid.
I repeat: This Was The Point.
All they really have to do is force everyone that tries to monetize an AI image to source every piece of work that the AI has referenced and share any possible revenue it makes with them. Will pretty much remove most of the engines under its wing with 1 hit. Hell, demotivating 99% of the people currently using AI is as simple as blocking most AI sharing websites, ala Piratebay, on the ISP level preventing them from organizing and sharing in one spot. All you have to do is retroactively access block the rest and most people doing generative AI will move on. AI is not the behemoth you seem to think it is.
I feel like art as a career is basically dead. I think graphic artists in the future will just be working as editors who correct crap that AI shits out. And because they are called "just editors," companies will try to justify paying them minimum wage.
The AI companies do not care, and they are hypocritical AF. Like that story where AI companies were saying their copyrights were being infringed because other companies were reverse engineering their tech. Like are you A Holes for real right now.
(I assume Twitter is playing a big part in why you feel this way. But I say, if Twitter is causing you anxiety, that just means you're a decent human being. A lot of smart people are moving away from Twitter, so while the situation isn't necessarily getting worse, Twitter for sure makes it look like it is.)
At the same time, I'm someone who sees it ultimately as just another tool, and that it can be used for good, for bad, for massive quantity generation or for something very specific. I've certainly seen it used for popular characters that everyone and their mother seems to love, which like, doesn't impress me much because those characters are already popular, so anytime you search for them you're bound to see new stuff.
A part of me pauses though when I look up characters that are long time favorites of mine, that didn't have alot of art, and I see some AI stuff of them. Because on the one hand, a part of me is like "Hey, someone else out there likes that character enough to want to make more stuff of them!" but then I do remember how the AI works and that it'd be nicer if the new art I was seeing was being done by people taking the time to turn their passion via the more typical methods.
A part of my brain looks at it also as something I've wanted for years, since I was in my early teens. A technology that could basically take a thought from your brain, and produce/create what it is your wanting and invisioning. I freely admit, I'm impatient, and hate things like practice. But I am also on top of that, my own worst critic, and considering many of the times I've tried drawing, even if it came out 'okay' it was never "Perfect" or never "Exactly what I was imagining in my head." Which has always made me just get too frustrated or mad about trying further and give up on trying to become better. (whereas with writing, I can much more readily create what I want. Most of the time)
I've interacted with people before who have hated certain kinds of art and seen them as not art, or hated certain tools. I knew an art teacher who HATED digital art and didn't think it real art. I try to remind many people that what is and isn't art is always subjective as well. Part of the reason AI art is being successful at the moment is because tons of peoples standards for what is and isn't art isn't as high up as people think.
That said, I think there will always be a core, groups of people, who like and want to support artists not using AI. The sad/frustrating part is of course whether said core group will be big enough to sustain and support some artists. Some will be able to manage, others won't.
As with the introduction of many new technologies over the last 50 years, the artistic community will adapt. It'll continue to exist. It will likely be different to what it is now in 10 or 20 years, but it will still be around.
I trend towards the long term view of "AI art right now is predominantly a fad, and will slow down like many other fads" at which point it will likely then fade and become niche on its own, or will itself adapt in some way.
Of course, one of the annoying things to consider is that some people make the switch from supporting artists to the AI stuff is cost. In some cases, it is (at least on the surface) cheaper to go to the AI. And with everything getting more expensive and many people facing money crunches and looking for things that will make their days easier/more enjoyable...
And some others make the switch because they look at the current environment and conclude "Its not going away, so might as well just get over it."
I wish though there was more to do help artists like you. I follow you because I love the stuff ya do, whether its NSFW or SFW. Popular characters or more niche ones.
I definitely know that if I had more disposable income, you'd be one of several artists I'd be supporting more directly.
I'm not that good with words, but let me try anyway.
I really love your work. I've been enjoying it for quite some time now.
And I personally thing, that you are very very good at what you do.
For me, furry art ist ART. Nothing less. I love the passion you artist pour into your works and to see this passion reflect in the finished pieces.
"AI" can never do that. Yes, it gets harder and harder to recognize that trash and yes, that starts to scare me a little. I myself work in a field, where AI will become more and more prevalent and might, on day even replace me. But maybe not. I think there is a limit to what these "AIs" can to.
You cannot ask it to create something completely new. It can only copy or combine what real artists have done before.
Yeah, of couse, for those people who want cheap fap material "AI" must be the ultimate cheap solution. But those, who crave the real deal, will always turn to artists as yourself.
Still I wish you luck In anything and everything you do and if you ever need anyone to talk to we’re here for you.
There were laws going to be put in place to keep AI Content Makers out of making money as it was seen as a copyright risk and it rewarded scammers using AI Art to make easy money. I know right now things just look dreadful far as the situation for artists go, but just remember there is an army of people in support of artists and their livelyhoods and its very easy to look at something negative and make it way bigger then the positive that co-exists in our world.
All I can say is, if you have any shread of passion and love for art, never let it go and never let the world and other morons affect what you love to do. Unlike AI your art which is crafted from hours of effort and passion will shine more brightly then anything generated by a cold machine.
please let me know if you need any help getting into this kind of thing.
im also introverted as hell so i would be the worst person to run a booth.
Cant even visit cons much cause i dislike how many people there are
lots of conventions and events allow this kind of thing! check it out to spread yourself out a bit more! it might help!
it also helps that a lot of convention/dealers den spaces forbid ai art, so you could be in a lot more of a "safe" space ^^
AI is a new industry, and the world has yet to figure out how to properly deal with it. Copyright law won't go away because big brands like Disney won't allow that to happen. If anything, AI will simply be regulated in accordance with copyright law. Things will improve with time, so don't lose hope,
If feel so sorry for you. No one should ever feel like that. AI is just the worst....
I haven't followed up on all the laws out there but I'm sure AI will go the way of the dodo soon enough.
There might be mistakes and silly stuff happening but basic consumer isnt gonna care of that or if it feels soulless or not.
anyone who touts it as providence or replacement is just drinking the fascy sauce on X
Your work is incredible. AI can never truly replace human creativity and passion, yours included. AI Stagnation is an inevitability.
Don't let ai techbros get to you. They're misled by the industry who's trying so desperately to keep the notion that "AI is great!" and justify their billion dollar money sink until they can get someone to buy their creation off of them.
The only thing ai pictures are good for are memes, a quick laugh easily forgotten.
Your art is very much wonderful and I am glad to see it, even if it's an older piece. Your stuff is worth the time. Just make sure to take breaks if you feel yourself really getting any sort of hopeless about it all. Burnout can be sneaky and creep up on ya.
The AI bros will possibly continue to be a problem. But real artists like you and others I follow are so awesome. No machine will replace that. Never.
But I would plead with you to not feel as though you are inadequate.
The people who are fine with generating AI images, using stolen libraries of infinite copy-written works, were never the kind to appreciate the time, care, and affection you put into your art.
There are many who argue that AI "is no different from a person" because a human being looks at all this art and uses it as a reference point - but the difference is that a human being doesn't have perfect recollection. A human being doesn't have every single image they've ever looked at tagged, marked, and identified for picking and choosing the parts to, in essence, trace over.
I have always enjoyed your art, I have always wished to have funds available whilst you had commission slots available, because it's not simply "pretty woman to look at" for me; it's the talent, the skill, the knowledge, and they *style* of what you make that draws my eye and my appreciation.
To those who use AI generated pose/bases, it's frustrating, because we (largely) had tools to do this. Photos, figures you could pose, or as time has marched on even 3D models in Blender; all of which were fairly cheap, or free. (Though at least in the case of real life photos, I can understand some people's nerves regarding staring at nude bodies, or abnormal poses, etc).
One can say this kind of use is hard to detect; which may be true if the artist is only using generated poses as a reference in the same way one would use other art or photos as references... which at that point, why are you not simply using other art or photos as your reference instead of the machine's twisted creations?
As for AI traced or touched up AI images? It feels, to me at the least, not appreciably different from just using an AI image without modification. A rushed photoshop job.
I lack artistic talent; I have always said that I am a technician. I can sit in Blender and tweak shader nodes and do mechanically complex things without too much difficulty. I can convert models from one format to another. I can do unity adjustments, weight painting/rigging, etc. I can make image edits in GIMP to the extent I can. But I lack the capacity to actually coerce these tools into making something new, into actively creating art; and it has given me a very *very* strong appreciation for those who can.
Again; you're not alone in these feelings; but I would never ever say to you that you are inadequate, that you aren't fast enough, that you aren't good enough.
No-one else is as good at your style and your energy as you are.
So many of the fame hunters in AI forget that there’s really isn’t any talent or training in ‘generating’ content, or else every film and tv company on earth would’ve jumped in on it, which they just haven’t. Besides the mountainous legal issues, why would you hire someone to type the prompts into the AI when you could get the exact same result doing it yourself?
I feel that despair with art, very much have felt it even on my little faraway island. But as I mentioned further down in a reply, the system is doomed to self-destruction; no matter how they adjust the code, or however much they continue to train it on material they have no rights to use, they have already started running out of fresh stuff, and when they train on their own output it breaks their training and can render the whole AI generator useless in fewer than 3 iterations.
It is very much adapt or die, but ultimately the nature of AI tech is very much in favour of human artists; AI cannot create anything truly new, only regurgitate an approximation of what it’s already seen. The speed that it takes in material to train on vastly outpaces humans, as does it’s output, so it’s inevitable that it will end up poisoning itself and then it’s barely a matter of weeks before it collapses at that point.
Keep poisoning your work, create out of spite of the Tech Bros, and ultimately they will never experience true joy in creation, or in partaking of another’s (actual) hard work. 🖌️🎨
That said, your art is incredibly enjoyable, and often wish I -could- afford more of the stuff you make beyond the few bucks I can throw at Patreon each month.
Yeah, the AI can make 100 waifus in the time it may take an artist to make one, but what I noticed... there's nothing THERE? It's 100 pictures of the girl, usually inconsistent, with similar poses often differentiated by minimal things, and they all have the same expressions and the same bodies as the other 1000 pictures of a different waifu, to the point where it's just... not sexy, or fun, at all.
As a contrast, I see a lot of people that use your bases (heck, I've used 'em), and while not every one is going to be a HIT for me, some people go beyond what's in the base and begin to add things of their own in 'em. I still like seeing 'em pop up from time to time because I know where they are coming from. It still required somebody opening an art program and fiddling with 'em, which is like... the bare minimum.
I personally prefer quality over quantity, and your art %100 has that quality that everyone, supporters and those that glance, are very much aware. Since hearing a quote “Comparison is the Enemy of Joy” is now something i am reminding myself each day.
It makes me happy to see all your supporters cheer you on, myself included. Keep up the amazing work that you do, i always look forward to seeing what you will create next, whether it is your wonderful merch or amazing art! ❤️
They're destroying the environment in the meantime, but I have a pretty strong feeling the use of free AI is going to diminish drastically pretty soon, once these people come up with the next big fad, or even before.
Also thanks for reminding me I should commission you sometime. Always loved how soft your gals look, and I'd love to see one of mine in similar softness. Just need to figure out who.
EDIT: Oh, whoops, you're not doing comms. Well, I'll check out your Patreon at least.
I really don't think that you need to worry about this. Keep making your lovely art and prove that humans can do it better!
Oma taide täällä on onneksi aika varjossa teemojen vuoksi, mutta siitä huolimatta ku näkee ja kuulee muiden taiteilijoiden ahdinkoa, huomaa mitä isot yritykset tekee ja kuinka tekoälystä tulee kokoajan enemmän arjen työkalu (kouluissa nykyään ihan opetetaan käyttämään tekoälyä) niin vähemmästäkin ite miettii että haluaako sitä enää julkasta mitään nettiin... en tiiä ees miten suhtautusin jos näkisin jossain täydellisen kopion mun työstä, mutta vaan koneen tekemänä. Tulis varmaa melkone mindfuck D:
Mutta tsemppiä hirveesti, koska sitä kaikki luovat ihmiset todellaki tarttee tänä päivänä.
Alkuun aattelin että ei mun kuvat näytä niin hyvältä että sitä kukaan haluis käyttää, hetki siinä meniki mut kyllä ne kaiken kelpuuttaa.
Ainaki muutama jotka käyttää vartavasten mun töistä tehtyjä AI malleja on patreonit joissa tienailee mukavasti rahnaa miun kustannuksella . Se ja se että joku maksaa jollekkin napin painamisesta on ihan ridiculous kun pystyis ite tekeen ihan saman ilmaseks :P
Jos joskus sattuu kivasti, että noiden mallien käytöstä joskus tulee jollai tavalla rangaistavaa niin oon kyllä jo keräämässä todisteita oikeuteen xD ( jos ois viä rahaa moiseen)
Mutta tosiaan postissa tuli tänää autokatsastuksesta lappu tekoäly kuvilla varustettuna, lild, s-market, posti, koti pizza ja ties ketkä kaikki muut isot firmat käyttää sitä niiden mainoksissa ihan innoissaan.
En tajuu miks sitä käytetää niin paljon jos on vaarana että tulee jälkeenpäi jotai sanktioo? Kai siinä on niin rahankiilto silmissä.
Ensvuonna pitäis kai tulla joku EU act laki, mut en oo ihan varma vaikuttaako se mihinkää muuhun ku että tekoälyfirmojen pitää pystyy julkistesti näyttään mitä dataa on käyttäny.
Toivotaan parasta, mutta ei hyvältä vaikuta.
Tää on eka kerta ku kuulen, että tyypit kouluttaa tekoälyn käyttämää tyylii yhen tyypin taidetta ja sitte tienaa sillä rahaa ja vaikka ei pitäs järkyttyä ni kyllä mä silti oon. Yksinkertastettuna nehä vaa varastaa sulta ja vie taskusta rahat samalla. Ihan paskaa.
No hemmetti, se on levinny laajemmalle sitte ku mitä oon aatellu ku ite oon nähny vaa vanhan kotikaupungin pitserian käyttävän sitä ja sit näin aika vasta jonkun partaterämainoksen, jossa oli iha selvästi käytetty tekoälyä XD Oli aika tökerönnäköne
Pitää kyl toivoa että tähä tulis jotai rajotuksia tai kunnon säätelyt sitte koska muute voi käyä aika huonosti. Kyllähä mä nään että jossain syöpätutkimuksissa tai kielen opiskelussa tekoälystä on hyötyä, mutta taiteen aloille se ei kuulu...
And to the people who say, "but A.I. isn't good enough to train on one art style because one artist hasn't made enough examples to train an A.I."
Git gud scrub. Don't use A.I. until it is good enough to train on one art style, then you can sell it to artist for them to make their own art faster.
Much love from one of your biggest fans.
You're an amazing artist and I can understand why you would grow tired of drawing especially since once a hobby becomes a job. It's harder to find the same love for it. So after that it comes back to finding a different hobby while doing the job. But yeah, I hope everything improves though for ya.
It's easy for non-artists to say it'll be okay, don't feel discouraged etcetc and I 100% can empathize with how you're feeling. It's suffocating and draining to say the very least.
And you can't force yourself to continue drawing because then it'll develop negative emotions with it and you'll start to hate it.
As much as I'd love to see you continue to draw, I don't want you hating it. I'd much rather you put your focus wherever makes you feel more free and happy.
being as art is your income , maybe focus more on P2U bases that can keep raking in income over time and whatever patreon rewards? I dunno, I just would hate for a skilled artist to completely lose all and any art drive ;-;
I'm afraid it is inevitable, i call it the "mcdonald's effect", where you had once restaurants and local shops that made good food, now you have a mcdonalds that serve garbage, but since it's cheap and filling, people will buy garbage anyway, and local shops and restaurants close because people don't go there to eat anymore.
The only exception is if the restaurant is actually extremely good, so people will accept to wait and pay premium to eat there.
In other words: artists cannot compete on the quantity of "art" that ai can make, the only way to compete is by making high quality and exclusive stuff.
Ironically i think we'll go back to old times, where real artists were few, made extremely high quality works, and were therefore very well paid.
And comparing yourself to the slopmachine won't help - you are leagues above them. You are better than these automated plagiarism machines ever will be.
Most of the time it's unavoidable even to now surpermaket fake and badly rendered "wall art" but when you can should support those who do things ethically, go less to big stores and more of those mom and pa stores who still do thing not the big number kind of way and yeah that is a losing battle if we keep doing the way it is as individual, those mom and pa stores are already disappearing and as connoisseur of art dont force artist to disappear too,
For now I am a small artist and my stuff not too fed into the "regurgitator-inator" yet but I've been baking in some of my watermarks into my piece either it's background ads, "lighting shapes" and general marks and decals here and there, if anyone uses the "scn3null style" and fail to render my decals properly it's defiantly a fake. Think you could add those too?
Oh yeah and additional note for artists who uses AI for reference and render, not a complete "dont you know AI will give inaccuracies right?" get people's photo and maybe save a library/visit those niche forums with images posted from people
and government documents?cause google images maybe full of shit the next few years(baby peacock wtf have you not been on a farm?) as for poses, I'd recommend getting kotokiya's megalomaria frame/kit, it's like 50USD/way cheaper than a bandai posing doll and once build it's a posing machine, USE that for pose reference recreate in "doll" then skewtch on it. Cant hands? so does AI, get "some" of bandai's MG kits(1/100) some of them have these special MP-01 articulated hands (maybe 2012-2016 models?), at first it's hard to get it out right(fingers pop off) but once you got a good one, those hands are AMAZING as hand references once you've repair things you've broken/pick up skills fixing plastic things.boy I yap alot around here and alotta people probably wont heard any of what I'm yapping about but yeah it's a losing battle but those who and weade through the hardships WILL survive.
I'm not even a successful artist just keeping barely afloat, and even those crumbles are gonna be taken away by AI bros, I feel how there are less and less people wanting to follow real artists. More and more people are going ti fully embrace AI slop. And now, when AI can draw hands more or less, people are nit complaining about this weakness anymore and jumping on the AI wagon.
Sorry you're having a hard time there teranen. Just remember, there's still people like me that love the more traditional look rather then "pretty frosting" without much work into it. Don't let it hit you when this was the outcome of lazy ass people that don't wanna put the work in it. Stick to your guns Teranen.
I like your work. Being slow is not a bad thing. You take your time to get things up to your standards and improve. Don't put yourself down to the level of AI. You are better. AI cant be you. It can try but it will always be playing catch up.
I hope things improve or at least you feel better soon. have you tried doing some 3d work with an eye towards 3d printing like mini's? It's just something new to try out maybe make things fun again? Plus you might be able to sell some minis.
As for your enjoyment of art, have you considered branching out the subjects for a little bit? You draw pin-ups year in and year out, and they're very good and I love them, but I can see how it could leave you creatively exhausted.
TBH I'm not entirely against the use of AI for things like backgrounds or concepts that are then redrawn or used for inspiration or whatever. BUT monetizing completely ai-made images is wrong and stupid. Anyone can make the same crap with the same ai and using real art to train ai violates copyright.
Thankfully AI art is vulnerable to copyright laws when it's trained using someone else's real art. And like others here mentioned, AI art generators have limits to what they can do or what they can get right.
Most people I know who use AI do so because they don't have any money for regular commissioners, so I don't think talented artists are missing much because of that.
There's always going to be a market for talented artists (especially ones at your level) because you can make new/original stuff that the AI can't do. (Because all it can do is copy other stuff).
Regardless, hope the all the supporting comments you got on this journal helps cheer you up.
As much as it may be awful to say, in your situation it may be best to just take a break from art on a commercial level (not a personal level) and try to figure out what you can do to make up for it in other ways.
Capitalism has never been kind to artists, and right now we're at a point where everything is on the verge of collapse due to corporate greed and overreach. We see rampant ignorance and vindictiveness spread.
People often forget the most important thing: You. You need to prioritize your mental health and wellbeing. I know you also need to put food on the table, but the only thing I can say is try to see if there is a way to do so that will help you be in a healthier mindset.
In the dystopia we live in today that may not be feasible, but it's worth at least seeking some advice. Also, if it is feasible, see a professional about your mental health. Seeking help is often stigmatized and viewed as a sign of weakness, but knowing one's limits and seeking out help from others is a valuable skill to have.
You don't have to compare yourself to the machine. From my experience of being an artist, people come here for you, not just your art, as evidenced by the hundreds of encouraging comments you're getting. They like to see what you make next, what you get up to. It's you that they've formed a bond with. The quality of AI will always be kinda ehhh, it gets sickening to look at after a while, that's partially why I deleted my old DeviantArt account. You're like 10-20 times better at art than me. And you've got like 36 times the amount of watchers. So I wouldn't be afraid of losing support if I were you. In fact, I'm quite envious of you. It feels like no matter what I do I can't make my art look as good as yours haha. But I keep making art regardless, because I know my fans are here for me the same way your fans are here for you.
You say that the people who support artists are going down but do you have empirical evidence for it? Because the way I see it, many big youtube channels are continuing to shed light on this issue. Commentary channels, art youtube channels, and channels with millions of subs like JaidenAnimations and Saberspark have brought light to this issue or try to continue to bring light to this issue. Compare this to tech bros with only thousands of subs. I wish I could list more channels but I also try to avoid watching these videos because I know that worry will implant itself in my head once I think about it.
I just wanna say that even though all feels lost that's not the reality. In the end, feelings are just feelings. From the evidence I've seen it is definitely pointing in the opposite direction. If you can't believe in the world, at least believe in your supporters. At least believe in the people who took the time to write a message to you. If the world is all about productivity and quantity, hundreds of people would not have taken precious time out of their day to write encouraging words to you. These are people who will stick with you till the end. And personally, I've always believed loyalty to be more important than popularity.
Anxiety is a huge issue with me too and worrying about AI art is just one of the hundreds of ways I think my future will end. But I suppose after wallowing in worry for days on end, feeling like shit, becoming completely disconnected from my family and my friends, and slowly allowing my physical health to be destroyed along with my mental health, I can tell you that this isn't a state of mind you want to stay in for a long time. I guess things changed when I realized this wasn't the way I wanted to die. Wallowing in self-pity and hopelessness. Waiting for my career to end when it hasn't, and more than likely isn't going to. I know your fans, friends and family don't want to see you sink into despair either. And given the overwhelming amount of support you get compared to me, I wouldn't want to see you turn out like me either, doing the self destructing things that I did back in 2022. Because now in 2025, things have become better for me as an artist, and I'm finally able to make a living out of it. Even though I didn't think it was possible 3 years ago when AI came out.
So yeah, I hope for the sake of all the furries who look up to you, myself included, that you're able to escape this mental prison that's trapping you in a cycle of worry, despair and hopelessness. I'm free to talk whenever if you need to just rant some more. Perhaps there are more specific nastier things that you want to say that isn't kind to say on a public platform. I know just letting out my emotions and saying what I'm feeling with no bars hold really helps clear my mind a lot. Otherwise it might continue to be stuck in your head, festering until it takes over your entire mind.
Just remember that we're here for you Teranen. Always.
Technical:
i nightshade and glaced for a long time now, i don't think we are seeing any difference. Every new piece i make is fed to to machine.
Nightshade is based on Stable Diffusion, which is what generative imaging (I refuse to call it AI Art, because there's no intelligence in it) is based around. By using nightshade... you're doing the very thing you're against, because the image it puts out was generated. Furthermore:
1: It doesn't work on models that are already made. Keep in mind the base Stable Diffusion model was finished in 2022.
2: It targets specific models, trained with specific settings, and specific data sets. It's ineffective against anything outside of those.
3: Due to the raw size of the initial SD dataset, it would take millions of images to have any effect. By the time that's done, any architecture changes (see #2) make all the work irrelevant. On top of that, modern methods have curated datasets. Any 'bad' image will just be ignored.
4: Model trainers can still use the images as examples of what not to do, improving outputs anyways.
5: It (and glaze) are defeated by applying a 1% Gaussian blur to the image.
Historical:
Will the "adapt or die" truly be the future of art?
"From that moment our squalid society rushed, Narcissus to a man, to gaze at its trivial image on a scrap of metal. A madness, an extraordinary fanaticism took possession of all these new sun-worshippers. Strange abominations took form. By bringing together a group of male and female clowns, got up like butchers and laundry-maids in a carnival, and by begging these heroes to be so kind as to hold their chance grimaces for the time necessary for the performance, the operator flattered himself that he was reproducing tragic or elegant scenes from ancient history."
----
They shamnelessly print, at a negligible price, material which may, alas, inflame impressionable youths, while a true writer dies of hunger. Cure (if you will) the plague which is doing away with the laws of all decency, and curb the printers. They persist in their sick vices, setting Tibullus in type, while a young girl reads Ovid to learn sinfulness. Through printing, tender boys and gentle girls, chaste without foul stain, take in whatever mars purity of mind or body; they encourage wantoness, and swallow up huge gain from it.
The first one: Charles Baudelaire... about photogtaphy... in 1859.
The second one: Filippo de Strata... about the printing press... in 1473
Sound a tad familiar, don't they?
I compare generative imaging, to Robin Williams Genie: Infinite cosmic power, itty-bitty living space. Powerful as it is, it's also fundamentally limited in what was used to train it. The kicker here is humans are infinitely more creative. Give it a word it doesn't know, it falls flat on its face. The fact it can't do everything can drive someone to start drawing themselves, so they can get what they want 1:1.
Art won't die, and artists won't disappear. Diminsh... possibly. Go... no. History is on your side, and there will always be a demand for human artists.
All the companies see AI as a good way to fire a lot of people and replace them with it.
Maybe I'm pessimistic but I think the only thing you can do is keeping going. You are a great artist and there are lots of people who support you.
1) supply and demand
ai art can be made in the thousands instantly.
BUT
that also mean it has no inherent value (the more common something is, the less value it has)
Meanwhile, real art, especially great art like what you do, is rarer and tus more valuable.
real art like yours will be so much more precious
2) ai art is like fast food, good for a quick fix but unfullfilling
real art is like a proper meal
3) i recently read about the beginnings of photography and its astounding how its similar to this situation
at the time, portraitists were the only way for anyone to get an image of themselves. but then photography appeared. at first portrait artists strived to be as fast or as realist as photos, but it didn't work in the end. sure art got a blow from photos, yet it survived even now, 200 years later.
ai art will absolutely not be the end of artists, far from it
ai art cannot invent something new, it can only mimic what already exist. and thats a weak point
ai art, unlike you, is an unfeeling, unthinking machine
EDIT : NuclearNinja brought up photography too, and printing while at it XD
All of that made me value the Artists I know even more. And a lot of them post stuff like this. It is heartbreaking to see greed destroy our souls.
So please hang in there, there are those who value things made with emotion and love. There will probably be more slop in the future- but I think that it will only that slop to feed the algorithm. It will be less and less valuable as there will be more of it and hopefully it will oversaturate the need for it.
On the other hand I would hope there will always be need for true art- something made by the feelings to make us feel.
The only artists I care about are the real ones such as yourself. You have the passion and care for the craft that no machine could ever truly replicate. If people rather look at that AI-generated slop, that's their own loss.
I myself have spent a lot of time focusing on game design, as it's a unique niche that AI isn't well suited for. whenever an ai project pops up in my sphere, the underlying laziness behind it is immediately evident. it has appeal the first time it appears, but never any staying power. utilizing AI is inherently a creative block, and it stunts any creative endeavor more than it empowers it.
you are right to feel violated when people use your art for training. as a smaller creator, that's not something I've had to face quite yet. but everyone knows it doesn't compare to the original. everyone can sense the spirit you put into it.
Nothing can ever replace <i>you</i>. Regardless of what machiens can do, their output will never have your personal touch, something that makes your art valuable and unique.
I do hope that restrictions on AI "training" will take hold though. : \ I do think it's unethical to train AI on art without the artist's consent. It also seems unethical to sell AI art.
That aside, every artist is fighting this battle with you. You are not alone. But if we give up, what do we have? What will become the norm? Because what ai puts out is horrible. It's a mess in the best of cases. We can't let that become normal. If or no other reason we need to fight just to make sure that movies and video games and any kind of picture media is something that looks like it belongs and was done properly without six fingers and weird shaped eyes and hair that suddenly comes out behind their arm instead of their hip. Because while people take time and make mistakes, ai makes more of them and will never ever look as good as the real thing from a true artist. (Heck a 5yr old can probably do better on some things)
It helped to vent a little and let everyone know about the struggles and know that im not only one struggling with the same thoughts and that people still got empathy.
I felt that im just weak and that im just too sensitive when i let things get to me, but seeing others share same struggles lifts some weight of from shoulders that its not just me thing.
I keep drawing as long as i can and i hope that the spark of joy eventually returns and getting over the constant self hate.
Other thoughts
When visiting the profiles of some of the people who gave encouraging words and gave piece of their mind about AI, lot of them followed or retweeted well marked AI content and plenty of unmarked going under radar too. It is everywhere and people don't even realize how big and unrecognizable it has gotten and they consume it everyday
Talking about it helps. A lot. Be it amongst friends, family or someone else willing to listen and help in some way 🫂
The gooners have an endless source of furry porn but so what? They generally weren't paying for art in the first place. People WANT the art community to survive, so it will. We are here for community, inspiration, creativity, and a way to connect our passion to our skills and other like-minded people who appreciate it.
AI won't take away why I'm an artist.
Sooo your style is unique and never AI gonna be better than you or other artist. Because The AI cant create for herself. But you can create the amazing art you draw everyday for yourself. Not need other arts, you can get ll you want with your hand.
So is normal your feeling, and as begginer i feel kinda depressed for try to improve. Honestly i feel your thoughs but never an AI could get your art. You are a reference artist from me and im pretty sure that for others too. Never a AI gonna be a reference for me.
Seeing people say this is a response to ‘expensive commissions’ then complain about product slop
really do deserve the market they got in games and movies.
What's left is having the glimpse of hope of the govs around the world doing something with ai laws
I do certainly see the issue of art being someone's only way to actually make a living, and to that, there really remains the part of people who will not face away from real art… and the crowd does become smaller. But as history holds, there always will be people for real art, like when photography just became a thing, or the traditional vs digital when it was being rolled into the society.
Looking at it from different angle: like hey, you do draw good, and people like that, so most people will stay! Can't say if many people will do, as I barely interact with the community to know so, but some will always do; just like art collectors through the history.
The only worrying part would be you not enjoying drawing anymore, that could lead to a burnout, and this being the thing keeping bread on the table, it's a tricky situation.
I guess that there's still the part of somehow finding the joy in drawing again, but I'm the last person that should give advice about joy of life or finding motivation - still ideas could be given anyway, as there are always some possibilities
I am wondering about the merch part, whenever there would be some possibility of designing merch for other parties, like small indie studios or something like that, be it, a commissioned thingy too. The size of your following should certainly bring the possibility of making some contacts.
And hey, half jokingly, there always will be the suspiciously wealthy furries that commission others! While this is a serious subject, I still have to add some half-assed jokes to (hopefully) keep the mood up!
oop, I always end up making stuff way too long than they should be. anyway, my tone through the entire message is to be read as supportive, and as my past experiences show, I can get misunderstood almost always because of how I talk, so adding the disclaimer. It may also seem all over the place as I'm falling asleep.
Cheers and good luck.
A machine that is unable to process tone, setting, and emotion — which are essential in art — will never be the same as human creativity.
As far as I can see you are so much better than AI, and I hate to see you and other artists feel defeated over it. We can only hope laws will be in place to minimize or eliminate the use of visual AI entirely. On the side, your art is absolutely amazing and you have earned yourself a watch <3 You have followers that enjoy your art and I wish you the very best during this difficult time.
But here's the thing. I've toyed with AI, and they're way more limited than people think. I've seen so much stuff on FA that no AI could figure out. For example, take Jax from Mortal Kombat. Both of his arms were replaced with fancy cybernetics. AI can draw people, and it can draw robots, but it can't understand how to draw someone who is only part robot. Even a character like Captain Hook from Disney's Peter Pan confuses AIs - they just don't understand how to mix attributes, so they always draw him with two hands or two hooks or some weird number of limbs.
It's pretty pathetic.
Sure, AI may get better in the future, but that's not what I'm hearing. I'm seeing articles that say the newer models are even more confused than the originals.
In the meantime, humans with always be better than AI. Think about it this way: if an algorithm can draw something, what's stopping me from learning to draw it better?
At least, that's how I'm trying to approach it.
The paid ones, especially the $100s/mo ones? Those can mimic things almost perfectly... It's genuinely terrifying, if you look it up. And, when you're making hundreds to thousands selling AI content, $100s/mo is *nothing*.
Your hearts in the right place, but it goes so much deeper than what you've experienced.
If they're really able to do thing perfectly, then I hope the legal system catches up to it. Fuck it.
I've taken several years off from posting art, and I planned to "come back" with this account, but I know that if I have any skill I'm just going to get accused of using AI, especially since I haven't been "established" before the AI really got started...
It's impossible to not be depressed about it, and the sheer number of people who genuinely hate artists just because we had the self-discipline to get good at something...