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I'm really lame -AND- deleting adult art
16 years ago
So, the first order of business is of course the one where I let a bunch of people down.
I can't do commissions.
I know, lame, right? The trouble is, boys and girls, that Nori is some special kind of retarded. I took commissions yeeears ago for a short stint, and those were some of the worst clients I think I could ever even imagine. So maybe it was that that did it, or maybe it's unrelated, but every time I try to do anything art-wise for money, I just freeze up. My hands won't make with the doodly scribbly and I end up wondering just why I'm so dysfunctional in the face of capitalism. I hardly even take trades anymore, the specter of owing people is so strong. Hell, I've owed
theman my half of a trade for so goddamn long it's ridiculous. Sorry folks- this is why I put the idea out there before actually taking any on. So throw your tomatoes, I'm a big cocktease. Save your money, or spend it on somebody who really needs it.
The second order of business is something that I've been noticing little by little. And before you ask, no, I'm not deleting my adult art, that would be preposterous. :P What I'm referring to is when artists decide to delete their adult art.
Sometimes- very, very rarely- this is done as a point of personal growth, because the artist is taking a completely new direction with their work. This should be encouraged! Artistic directions can change and can mean a lot for the person making it.
BUT.
Personal Discovery should be distinguished from its very similar cousin, Personal Insecurity. From a distance, they may look exactly the same, but the first question used to figure this out is the ubiquitous golden question:
Why? Why are you doing this?
So let's list the most common given reasons for this:
1. "I felt like it."
-No argument there! You'd have to have, in order to have done it, unless you were being remote-controlled by Ralph Nader. This is the cop-out that I hear quite a lot, and it screams either "I do things completely on a whim" or "I have poor powers of self-analysis."
2. "I don't want that kind of attention anymore."
-This one bothers me a lot. Letting the nebulous 'other people' determine what you show to the world is troubling to me, because it starts off with the impression that they are a controllable factor. To be perfectly honest, there's nothing one can do about the people that come to comment save for on a one-on-one basis, and trying to control that on the supply side only really hurts the artist in the end.
3. "I want people to like my art for its quality."
-The assumption that porn is the anathema to quality is something I've already addressed in another journal, but even aside from that, it runs right back to the assumption that you can control the people that come to see your work. If you show people something, they're going to interpret it their way- that's how art works.
4. "I feel conscientious, as relatives/friends/children may see it."
-So let me get this straight, your best friend from church, your Aunt Hattie and a ten year old are going to register for a website that's devoted to porn, log on, and hunt you down.
Either that's preposterous, or all of these people have a lot to answer for themselves, seeking out obscure porn like that! Not a whole lot of high ground for them. And in the second place, so what? We all like to keep secrets, yes, but it's not crippling that somebody should know you just happen to have a libido. You share that with someone, you know: EVERYONE. Even people who claim to be non-sexual are bound by biology, and there is a key that will turn their lock, even if they don't recognize it as that. It's a part of us as humans, it's not a big deal.
5. "I just don't feel like drawing porn anymore."
-Okay! That's totally fine, don't! But don't pretend you never did it. The act of not drawing adult art is completely natural, but the urges to cover this up are the vestiges of shame and deeper issues.
So the point is, be honest with yourself, above all, and encourage others to do the same.
I can't do commissions.
I know, lame, right? The trouble is, boys and girls, that Nori is some special kind of retarded. I took commissions yeeears ago for a short stint, and those were some of the worst clients I think I could ever even imagine. So maybe it was that that did it, or maybe it's unrelated, but every time I try to do anything art-wise for money, I just freeze up. My hands won't make with the doodly scribbly and I end up wondering just why I'm so dysfunctional in the face of capitalism. I hardly even take trades anymore, the specter of owing people is so strong. Hell, I've owed
theman my half of a trade for so goddamn long it's ridiculous. Sorry folks- this is why I put the idea out there before actually taking any on. So throw your tomatoes, I'm a big cocktease. Save your money, or spend it on somebody who really needs it.The second order of business is something that I've been noticing little by little. And before you ask, no, I'm not deleting my adult art, that would be preposterous. :P What I'm referring to is when artists decide to delete their adult art.
Sometimes- very, very rarely- this is done as a point of personal growth, because the artist is taking a completely new direction with their work. This should be encouraged! Artistic directions can change and can mean a lot for the person making it.
BUT.
Personal Discovery should be distinguished from its very similar cousin, Personal Insecurity. From a distance, they may look exactly the same, but the first question used to figure this out is the ubiquitous golden question:
Why? Why are you doing this?
So let's list the most common given reasons for this:
1. "I felt like it."
-No argument there! You'd have to have, in order to have done it, unless you were being remote-controlled by Ralph Nader. This is the cop-out that I hear quite a lot, and it screams either "I do things completely on a whim" or "I have poor powers of self-analysis."
2. "I don't want that kind of attention anymore."
-This one bothers me a lot. Letting the nebulous 'other people' determine what you show to the world is troubling to me, because it starts off with the impression that they are a controllable factor. To be perfectly honest, there's nothing one can do about the people that come to comment save for on a one-on-one basis, and trying to control that on the supply side only really hurts the artist in the end.
3. "I want people to like my art for its quality."
-The assumption that porn is the anathema to quality is something I've already addressed in another journal, but even aside from that, it runs right back to the assumption that you can control the people that come to see your work. If you show people something, they're going to interpret it their way- that's how art works.
4. "I feel conscientious, as relatives/friends/children may see it."
-So let me get this straight, your best friend from church, your Aunt Hattie and a ten year old are going to register for a website that's devoted to porn, log on, and hunt you down.
Either that's preposterous, or all of these people have a lot to answer for themselves, seeking out obscure porn like that! Not a whole lot of high ground for them. And in the second place, so what? We all like to keep secrets, yes, but it's not crippling that somebody should know you just happen to have a libido. You share that with someone, you know: EVERYONE. Even people who claim to be non-sexual are bound by biology, and there is a key that will turn their lock, even if they don't recognize it as that. It's a part of us as humans, it's not a big deal.
5. "I just don't feel like drawing porn anymore."
-Okay! That's totally fine, don't! But don't pretend you never did it. The act of not drawing adult art is completely natural, but the urges to cover this up are the vestiges of shame and deeper issues.
So the point is, be honest with yourself, above all, and encourage others to do the same.
oh jeez you scared me pretty bad
My only thing about No. 4 would be more like parents wanting to see what you're doing (Ask for comp. user password and such...) and possibly, if you're not lucky, forcing you off without even being able to close the window. I've had a few close calls...what would you think?
God, for a minute I was terrified that you WERE talking about doing that shit yourself.
I HATE it when artists decide that some of their work is no longer fit to exist, and try to erase all traces of it. Even if it's crappy old art, it can be moved to a "scraps archive" or something. Take it off of the main view, so people see the latest and greatest art... but leave the old stuff behind for people to see where you came from.
And taking down adult art because they don't want to be seen as sexual... is, as you said, utterly mormonic.
hahahaha
Anyway, yes. I remember quite a few artists from when I was starting out, whose art I'd love to be able to see again.
Specter of owing people eh? Yeah, I suppose that can be a problem. It's a good thing the art you normally do is so sweet and sexy anyway, that I don't mind ya not taking commissions or trades and all that. It may be a subconscious feeling that you're not up to the task or something, or maybe you prefer having the freedom to choose what you will and won't draw. I seem to be the exact opposite in a strange way, but maybe it's because I worry that I can't come up with good ideas worth a damn. XD
So I look forward to any new work you decide to do, whether or not it's directed at anyone besides yourself! XD
#6: Makes for some very awkward questions when applying for a government security clearance.
You know, one trouble with it is I don't think I remember ever getting a good reference of the character you wanted in it. If you still want it, that is.
So, I've been off and on crazy-cautious and incredibly-indifferent for some time now. My gallery here's come down several times out of fear that someone I know is watching, then coming back up later when I say "fuck it". It's really not something I want to have to deal with, though. My dad is pretty insane when it comes to stuff like this.
Have you confronted him about it?
--FA isn't Google-able. Search engines were blocked from indexing FA long ago because they were chewing up bandwidth for no good reason. So nobody's going to stumble across your naughty pictures just by plugging your name into a search engine. Try searching some text from your oldest journals or submission descriptions/ titles. Chances are you won't find them. Google has FA usernames, but little else.
--That pesky little detail about having to (1) sign up for an account here, (2) enter a date of birth that certifies you as being old enough to see the stuff, and (3) turn OFF the mature filter that is enabled by default...before you can see naughty pictures.
I once talked someone out of doing this for something like #3 with the following reasoning. "Sooner or later, you're going to want to re-post that stuff. A whole new crowd of people are going to see it, fave it, watch you for it, and you'll be back to square one all over again. So leave the porn where it is, and just do the stuff you want to draw. The porn will get buried, and attract less attention as it gets farther and farther back in your gallery. Problem solved".
I know of an artist or two who is always asking other people what they should draw, and have said in perhaps not so direct terms that the only reason they draw is to make the people happy. I'm not an artist, but hearing that makes me crazy.
Am I wrong to think that the first and sometimes only person you should be drawing for is yourself? If people end up liking it in the end, then bonus, right?
Admittedly, I hate it when people up and decide not to draw porn anymore and end up deleting it all from their gallery. I always assume first it's because they've looked at all the lame, one-word comments or sexual claims they get for it and assume they're worthy of more constructive criticism from every single one of their watchers... or something like that.
Constructive criticism is great and all, but I believe you already addressed that before too, and we both just straight up agreed: people just aren't gonna give it up any time soon.
Sucks about the rest, but the deleting art bit is wonderful.
I've mulled it over for years and have given up trying to figure it out. I just don't need the stress.
You're not a cocktease. You tried it and discovered a limitation. Maybe you'll get past that limitation over time. For now, it's good to establish your safe zone and perhaps poke at the limits bit by bit.
For now, I know I shall be happy seeing whatever wiggly-jiggly things that come from your happy place, rather than things forced out.
I actually did think about the whole 'I'd like people to see me as an artist and not a smut supplier', but quickly grew out of that. Glad to see you've alright got the issue covered!
I'm going to be sad if you do
You don't need to draw porn any more but just plz keep you old ones up
And just say the srcap idea and I was about to say that. But I'll download your porn art just in case you do remove them
Don't reply if you're not gonna read things. Honestly.
Its a bummer that you don't do commishes but i understand. Bad experiences.
I'll just have to sit back and enjoy the fun XD
Wrong. Cogs in my brain kept going squeakier til they up and broke. I couldn't do it. The pressure and the idea of "write so you get money" killed it in its crib.
It also coincided with a period of time I had set aside to get writing some of my fan fiction ideas. None of it got done in the end and I ended up very close to having ulcers.
It sounds all poetic and idealistic when people say "I do art for art's sake" but in reality it's just a condition, for me anyway >_>
I dunno, I've got one drawing that I'm doing for pay, but I'm not getting paid 'til it's done so maybe that's why it's not killing my muses. I've even told the guy he doesn't have to pay me if he's unhappy with it.
And...
OK, don't fucking scare me like that. I'm still doing my babysteps, and I need role models. You damn near gave me ticks, man.
And the latter portion of the journal is why I save art to hard drive and dvd.
o_o I'm evil, there are many, many pictures that Neoneko has deleted and wishes to never again see the light of day.
Ooh! Microwave ding! FEEDING TIIIME!
Now if only I could get myself to take my own advice...
Oh, totally agree on the opinions about people deleting their stuff. I think half the time it's someone just wanting to appear more professional and mature by stopping the pronz than having any real reason for it. Though I could understand if someone lost the heart for it... I used to engage in sexual roleplaying on a daily basis on Furcadia, but then it just... stopped being fun.
Then I read the journal.
Then I fapped some more. :D
And I am proud of all of it, as I put real effort into writing these stories. I'll admit if there was any real chance of my family discovering them, I might think otherwise, but since that's exceedingly unlikely, given that this is a furry porn site, my work makes people happy, so I'll leave it up for all to see. n_n
Not like my online portfolio has anything even approaching the kind of designy-type work employers want. They want boring stuff like medical diagrams, pie charts, logo design and other stuff that I just don't have, because I've never actually had a strictly "graphic design" job before. I NEED a job like that to BUILD an online portfolio, but I need one of those to get a job like that. Total Catch-22. All I have now is crappy figurative work using furries, which, unless I'm trying to become an animator, will just get laughed at or worse, cause people to contact the authorities.
I always seem to post everything I do, even the incredibly stupid stuff. Every now and then, I consider taking some of it down because it's just painful to look at it and I know I can do better, but then I realize I don't have anything better I can use to replace it. So, I keep it up for historical context. Hey, look, that's how much I used to suck, not just in terms of art, but also subject matter.
As much as I hate my old art, I find it fascinating to see really old, terrible art from other people. I also don't care for flat-out porn, but I get upset when people delete it. I prefer that people rewrite the comments to explain why they don't like it anymore, and maybe link to something newer and better for contrast.
Well anyway, it's good to know that you aren't ever going to delete your work because of something like no. 3 or no. 4. I think that shows a lot of integrity on your part.
Jumping to the conclusion that it a porn site can kinda make it feel like we shouldn't be putting other art on it. ( which oddly puts you at ends with your own arguments in #2 and #3, in a way)
And by that token, a person CAN be afraid that their aunt/sibling/ total stranger's kid might see it.
Of course, this problem can be solved by the simple methods of gallery organization or making multiple accounts--giving credence to your argument.
It really is OK to have naked people in artwork (Hell, Rembrandt got into the history books for it), and some of the best porn (or art) out there is the stuff that you can't easily classify as either porn or art. (and this is coming from a guy that doesn't really like porn...)
You raise some good points here. And while many artists do indeed cringe when they see their older pieces, it IS understandable that an artist can at times wish to separate themselves from their old works for a while without giving up their sense of identity. (Remember Van Gogh's blue period? Or his clown period? Yeah, but you don't remember the time he went crazy and smeared himself with lime jelly and ran screaming naked down the streets of France, and his works DON'T either feature or suggest that he did.)
And more importantly;
Didn't I commission you for a piece a while back?
If you don't take commissions, then how about paid requests?
Yeah, it's some pretty revisionist history to suggest that all those classic artists were anything even close to resembling 'normal.'
Speaking of revisionist history, I don't believe I ever accepted that commission, sir. ;P
And it is the taking of your money that I object to!
Unless I am stealing it.
Then I saw you say that the notion of you deleting all that was preposterous and sighed with relief ¦3
When it comes to the clearing one self of the adult art label, I think it really depends on who's doing it. My one friend, for instance, is just leaning further away from it; she feels like drawing furry erotica is forced and it makes her uncomfortable. She's also one of the god-damned horniest people I know, so I think she just woudl rather not draw it. Plus one of her previous employers had a habit of googling his applicants and hired her seconds before saying "So, you like [fursona species], eh?". Realizing finding her furry porn stash was this easy made her decide "lets not do that anymore! 8D;"
Now, I can't say much because I just deleted a bunch of my old art too.
Of course, that was so I could try and sell CDs of my old work, so...
I still remember the bullshit I was put through and one's snap
judgment that would make my species disown the origin of how
the assessment and investigation was carried out.
...you know... a kangaroo court? *Boo! Hiss!*
Still... They didn't realize that to poke their noses around for porn
is as bad for them to look for it as it is for me to draw it.
But hey... you already known that.
I still do adult art... and blocked those morons, too.
Also at that xkcd "dreams" comment, I'm the type of guy who's FORCED to read the entire thing...My mid will not allow me to skip anything as all...same with these long journals of yours ( then again yours seem to be the ONLY one's I read nowadays anyway for that VERY reason so eh ). Then again I'm also the type of guy to keep mixing things up at times...sure there are those sites I check daily, things i log into to keep tabs with everyone, then again I'm always looking and new stuff on the net, reading up on things I never have before, and meeting people via new ways as well. As for real life I'm the type of guy who will make convo with a random person on the street so eh. :)
delete art = delete watch
as
delete adult art = delete watch
and argue with me that they aren't deleting everything, or what's left is still good, or whatever, completely ignoring what I say.
On an unrelated note, I've not seen you online lately. You been busy or something?
I realise now I didn't tell you in advance, but we were hoping to game today. ^^; My fault, so don't worry about it even if you were free. Let's hope for next weekend. :)
As for the commissions...well, I don't want to push you to reconsider, but heck...sometimes the only way out of a personal slump in one factor of your life is through. Gritting your teeth and getting it done, no matter how hard it gets. Can't focus? Do something else, then try again later. To give up on it altogether is kind of a waste, y'know.
On this topic, I'd like to at least ease your burden with that picture I asked from you so long ago. Not that I didn't want to see it, but hey, one less piece you have to think about might help you, so dun worry about it, kay? :3
"Realizing finding her furry porn stash was this easy made her decide "lets not do that anymore! 8D;"
"
See, that's totally fine.. not doing something anymore is different from pretending you never did it in the first place and destroying your own creations for purely emotional and speculative reasons.. its just the same way as habits -- you can't remove them, only overwhelm them with quantity and quality of new habits.. similarly, actually deleting parts of your history is futile and has about the same credibility and well-adjustedness as a mother of 3 claiming she's a virgin 9_9 (also, it punishes historians and your viewers for *your* insecurity)
Just like your older post, Nori (http://www.furaffinity.net/journal/467184/), it highlights honesty issues as well as shame issues. Very few people bother to be really scientific about important decisions -- because science is hard work (and well, because the intellectual currency of science is grossly devalued by the actions of mass media!) 'someone might see' is terrifically unscientific... it's more scientific to say 'someone might see, and then I'll have found out something' -- because it's just a possibility, and even a scientist researching that particular subject has bugger all chance of predicting the likelihood of ANYTHING in the absence of rigorously defined and checked data; so all that people saying 'someone might see' are really doing is pandering to their own doubts.
I can totally understand #4, but sympathize with it not at all: it just promotes a ridiculously narrow view of humanity. Like you say, sexuality is so essential to.. well, maybe not our humanity.. more like our sense of life? Hiding it just helps people to make foolish, ignorant and irrational decisions -- 'Garbage In, Garbage Out', and provides a false sense of alienation.
"4. I feel conscientious, as relatives/friends/children may see it."
True true, fearing friends and such will run into it is really, really rare. But so far one friend of mine made an account and so did my friend's MOTHER and found me. Hell, my friend's mom TRACED to my account (she read cookies and packets and all that stuff, found the data that linked to my FA, then there we go, founded out). How did I react? Pffffffffffft. Like. I. Care. I don't believe in politics outside of politics (IE, fitting into artist circle jerks or worrying about looking good to a rich father in a big family and trying not to get boned out of millions once he buys the farm). SO the whole hiding things from others deal? Not cool. Either DON'T POST EVER, or go under a whole different name and deny if questioned. But once in a while, if ye shall post, thou art foundeth.
I treat my art much like my furryness in general. I don't spout off advertising, but I won't lie or hide from it. Best way to handle things so far =3
All commissions and no porn make Norithics twitchy.
All commissions and no porn make Norithics twitchy.
All commissions and no porn make Norithics twitchy.
All commissions and no porn make Norithics twitchy.
Some good points and discussion on why people decide to remove all of their older works. Makes you wonder how often Personal Insecurity trumps Personal Discovery for any given individual for the big decisions in their lives. Me, I figure it's a neck and neck sorta scenario.
seriously i really tought you were gonna delete your awesome stuff :/