Nah that shit has been pissing me off lately too,my inbox has been full of continuous reposts of ych bullshit

This is what happens when the community reaches critical mass. There's too many people in the 'fandom' for this site to properly support right now. The sweet spot population size was surpassed in 2012 or 2013.

There are more new/up-and-coming artists than ever before right now. These artists post such reminders because they aren't getting any bids, which is a result of their works getting lost in a sea of too many posts and not getting viewed at all. And the more of them post reminders, the less the community wants to interact with them. Which makes them get even less views and feel the need to push the reminders out even more.

It's a snowball effect, honestly. Just one big competition for attention.

This site does not favour new artists at all. I kinda feel bad for them. The overwhelming majority of those who pull a decent following are established artists who have accounts nearly as old as the site itself.

There's just too many people, no room for new blood, and a severely over-saturated market with far too many choices.

Ugh... that was hard to see, mon ami. Seriously, I'm shocked...

You don't use the "dark" theme?

I usually just unwatch people if they start spamming YCHs

I really wish they would crate a separate 'market' tab different from the gallery.

Yes, it bothers me too. I completely understand the need to sell, really. But there should be a separate display in the front page for advertisement images and gallery images.

Democracy only works if people are "enlightened" (to reuse the official term used by the philosopher) which means people need to understand and be aware of every consequences of every choices... as you can see, that can't happen. Democracy isn't bad, per se, but humans are.

With you on that, man.
I don't want to antagonize the artists that try to make an honest living here, but when I see an auction reminder, or adoptable on the front page that I like, and I check out the gallery of this artist, and the first three pages in structured the same way you describe it? And I find I favorited the third posting of the same drawing?

Makes me wonder.

that's why there should be such thing as 'editors' pick', not just the most popular shit (like on inkbunny) that would always only contain artworks from the same small circle of widely known artists and which is honestly completely useless. the latest uploads on any art website will always be 95% a pile of low quality stuff (and ych reminders in case of FA) so it's pretty useless too.

ya - would be nice if stuff like that was put into a separate category

I see a ton of E-begging in the journals from the artists I watch too. Like, i get that some people here try to earn a living doing just art - but this is exactly why I NEVER tried to get into the commission game seriously. So many journals with "no bids for YCH" or "cheap adoptables"

Ugh... I even find the concept of "adoptables" silly. You drew a drawing of a new OC, and now you're selling it along with the implied ownership of the OC. You're selling artwork, you're not an adoption agency.

I don't have an issue with the idea of adoptables par se (having been gifted a few from a friend) when it is "I drew this character, and now I'm selling it to someone who liked it enough to buy it." It's the adoptables which come with the clause of "if you don't continue to get art of the character, I'm taking it back and selling it onto someone else with more money" I have an issue with.

Though yes, I agree with you. There needs to be a separate category for reminders/YCHs.
Incidentally, anyone else read YCH as Yick?

Ok I've never heard of anyone "taking back" OCs sold via YCH deals. That's rediculous.

Wait, what?! That's a thing?

Oh shit you live!

LOL I never left. XD

alas, it is.

I've seen one who literally says, "I retain the right to take the adopted character back without refunding you and sell it to someone else"
like hell they have. a contract is a contract, no matter what. I wonder if they still have business at all...

Yeah, I get the same results too. My inbox can be 9/10 YCH/adopt reminders...

Yeah that is a lot, probably should have a separate filter like there is for stream announcements (journals, that is). Probably if enough people make a stink about it, a new filter can be added for such.

Nope, I did a random look at the front page (as of this posting) and out of the 17 images shown, a full THIRD were reminders.

I actually reported Your_Reminder because I see the same 5 images posted multiple times a DAY but it doesn't "break any rules" even though there's a rule for obnoxious repeated posting.

Fucking hate this shit. Just spread your posts out a bit and we would have obnoxious YCH reposts.

I feel like the real problem is that some years ago the fandom passed the point where just about anyone with even a little artistic talent could jump in and make decent money if they really put a lot of effort into it.

And as the fandom continued to grow more and more people saw others successfully jumping in and growing their art business into a viable business, something that could pay the bills.

The issue with this is it only SEEMED like a lot of people were jumping in and actually making enough money to support themselves through selling furry art.

So as the years have gone on there's still more and more artists that think they're gonna just fire up an FA page and immediately become the next Zaush.

But when that inevitably doesn't work they start to get desperate and start looking at what other artists are doing, and over the past few years YCHs have become all the rage because not only are they less effort for the artist, they're less effort for the commissioner. "Here's a picture of my character, and here's $100, plug them into this pre-existing art."

Further, along with the relatively easy commission process, artists have recently embraced the idea of repeatable YCHs. So instead of just one or maybe two reminder posts, talking about when a YCH bidding session is going to end, you get a steady stream of posts "reminding" people that this semi-permanent YCH offering exists.

And it's mostly because new artist discovery on FA sucks. Clicking on Browse and wading through a sea of wildly varying art has always been the main way to find new stuff on here, and even back in '06 this was pretty unweildy, but nearly fifteen years later the site is still essentially the same as it was back then, and with the sheer volume of posts coming in nowadays it's quite impossible to keep up with everything without making it your full-time job.

So now aspiring furry artists have this issue where anything they post gets immediately caught up in the constant torrent of content, and instead of pursuing other channels (because, honestly, what other channel reaches as many furries as FA, the Walmart of furry art?) they just keep posting reminders, because that's just "The Way Things Are."

So the way I see it, FA being basically the same site for almost a decade and a half is a part of this problem, but so is the fact that a lot of artists continue to look at the very small percentage of artists who actually make "pay yer bills" money off of furry art and think, "I can DEFINITELY do that!" even though their talent and drive aren't ever gonna be enough to push them out of a hobbyist's level of proficiency.

I have a buddy who was under the "furry art = easy money" delusion for a long time, even though his art style at the time could best be described as "uninspired middle school doodle." But he took niche commissions, stuff that some artists don't like to draw, so he actually made a little bit of cash when first starting out, and tried for a couple years to turn it into a career, to no avail.

Nowadays he's moved on to more traditional employment...and amusingly his art has gotten quite good over the years, to the point where he could certainly make more money than he did back in the day, but he learned the lesson a lot of furry artists refuse to: talent and skill aren't enough to get you popularity, and popularity is the fandom's real currency.

some artists are like "i post a ych pic now" 1 hour later "now i post a reminder" 2 hours later "now i post again a reminder"...

its ok to post a reminder like, on the last day of the auction. but not each day 2-3-4 times...

I unwatched someone who drew good pictures recently. They were posting reminder *every* *single* *day*, I got fed up of seeing it in my new pictures day after day after day after day...

+1 I've had to unwatch a couple of otherwise decent artists, including ones whose services I've engaged in the past, for just such a reason.

For one such artist I've seen the YCH and a reminder for that YCH literally side by side in my inbox...

I used to have a journal about this too. All the reminders are what I take umbrage with personally. If people are not buying your YCH or adoptables... maybe you need to improve a little and try again later...

The constant reminders are awful.

I agree. I tried blocking the worst offenders (thinking your_reminder here) but it doesn't stop you seeing their spam!

And your can't filter out posts with certain text on the title.

Hence I've given up with the front page...

remind me to comment on this later!

Here's your reminder

Remind me to reply to this later!

Happy "later"!

No! I demand happiness immediately!

Reminder: Reminder!

…

(I'm probably not doing more reminders, because 2 is plenty for ironic demonstration. Also, I'll probably never return to this page again if you don't reply.)

It's annoying as heck, and tbh, I'd ban it again and let people whine as much as they please. The "leaving fureveeeer" journals are so much fun always!

I find YCH annoying, but I can tolerate them selling. But seeing the same pic over and over and over is the same reason I don't buy products that interrupt my browsing with constant ads (I'm looking at you youtube premium)

The solution is:

1. Make a new category, like fursuit & crafts, for anything involving marketing, merch, money.
2. Give the front page a section for such things to be viewed, browsed, etc.
3. Disallow 'reminder' posts, reposting of such items, etc. One special, one post.

If people want to spend money, they can browse for spending money. Otherwise, they can browse for art. And yes, I've been really disenchanted with the artistic community these days because literally-everyone wants to make money, and very few people want to actually get good before trying to do that. Now more than ever, the situation is going to get REALLY bad regarding that. So, yeah.... capitalism is becoming... unfortunate.

I don't mind at all that people sell, heck, that's an accepted part of the community, but for frak's sake, the endless stream of it! I follow a VAST number of artists, and recently, the usually around 400 - 800 pictures per day that flood in are 95% stream notifications, YCH, adoptables, sale reminders, adoptable reminders, MORE adoptable reminders, MORE YCH reminders, this-or-that auction reposted 8 times, etc., etc., etc. I honestly shouldn't have to by clicking checkboxes to delete the majority of content from watched artists. Some artists no longer even produce independent work but are 100% focused on stream, stream commissions, YCH's, auctions, and adoptables.

Like was said by many here, the introduction of a Marketplace tab might help, and/or a separate tab for both Marketplace and streams. The fact that 80% of the JOURNALS are the same is telling, as well...

YCHs are the experience of, 'This is the pose/person/things I want to draw and if you don't like it fuck off'. It's a very good way to turn away a vast potential audience that isn't looking to spend money on your shit just because it looks like the rest of deviant art's middle tier artists.

To put it bluntly, YCHs and all the shillery should have its own category separate from the main page. The fetish shit should be shoved at the bottom or out of the way so you can browse the actually good submissions in peace without this horrid tagging system.

I don't care how many layers of GUI you paint on top of the original, it still is a pile of shit.

Lemme speak in defense of YCHs really quick..
YCH have their place because you see what you get and how well the artist can draw that. So often I asked artists if they think they can draw something and always, without fail, they said they could. It was only true in like 30% of the cases. With an YCH you know if they can or can not (most of the time, sketches can be deceiving but better than going blind). Also, there's no uncertainty about the price, so you don't have to ask, and artists with YCH are "open" at least for that ych, so no endless searching for artists that are open.
Basically, if you like the sketch of the YCH, you get the questions about availability, quality, price and ability answered at once.

I have a big list of commission ideas, but more often than not, I rather go for an YCH because finding an open artist that drew similar stuff before in a quality/price range that you like is such a huge bother.

Also, that all YCH are just bottom tier shit is simply not true. Perhaps for the "3$ multislot" ones

This is all unrelated to the issue with reminders tho

as an example, this here was an YCH: https://www.furaffinity.net/view/28305550/ (NSFW - nudity)
You can't call that a pile of shit.

Disseminating your post makes me think that you didn't either comprehend what I wrote or don't have an argument to really refute or challenge what I think. So let me back up and tell you why it is I think this way.


While it's true what you did post is of adequate quality, what's the difference between your character and the next in the same pose? What am I to take away other than the character design? The presentation is what I prefer to see rather than what is being presented. If I can see what it is that I want for my characters, I'll pay them. YCH's are not unique. They are drawn with the intent of predisposed poses that are already half finished and are intending to sell based on a fixed amount that is often higher than what you would pay for regularly. Saying that, 'Oh, the minimum bid is below the base price', knowing full well it's going to exceed that or that its fixed value will get at least a few sales is what turns people like me away. It loses its appeal when I see another character in the same pose right next door in another submission. I'm not looking to go to a build-a-pose workshop, when I can just pay regularly and often somewhat cheaper for a regular commission and not have it be a waste of my time just slapping money at them when this is what they expect. No, I like getting things more personal than just Ctrl+c Ctrl+p.

And no, it's not just the 3$ multislot ones if you intend on reselling the 'pose' or the 'idea' of a character being drawn in the same way as the rest. I find it uninspired and lazy creativity on both the artist and the commissioner not to think about what they want.

you know, most YCH are not multislot. One YCH, one person gets it, nobody else does.
It seems to me you just have an irrational hatred for YCHs

They're often more expensive than a regular commission. Why? Why would I buy something premade if I couldn't think of it and pitch it myself? I guess if you're that deprived or empty of ideas, sure. Just buy it. It's often a case of impulse buying that I don't like about it and it doesn't solve the issue of not knowing what you want if that's a common thing you buy is YCHs.

It's not an irrational hatred as it is seeing the thoughtlessness behind a lot of it. Or at least a disdain for not knowing what you want out of something. You might as well just support their patreon and not yourself. Make someone else's goals be realized if there is none except for, 'getting art because it's cool'.

I issued a complaint about the reminder messages a while back; I found an entirely separate account that it appeared someone had made to help advertise for their main account. By the time the mods looked at it, the OP had already taken it down, so there was no action to be taken.

It's this way constantly, and it's a damned mess. I'm quite tired of it.

They just need to make a new category that is advertisement. Then I can just tick it off when searching so they dont show up

as a customer, not an artist, I was very happy about that rule - as long as it lasted. I watch artists that sometime posted 3 reminders a day. Or watched, past tense.
Or say you want to get a pic but are too lazy to go throught the whole process of coming up with an idea and searching an artist that is open, made similar art before (important or you will get burned, never trust an artist if they say "yeah I can do that" ;P) and has an acceptable price range for your tastes. So you search for ych.. and page after page of search results a big percentage is just reminders of stuff you've already seen..

reminders are a bother, really. One every 3 days or so, fine, but once a day or even more frequent, no thanks. at least delete the previous reminder or something, so that at least the search function is not broken.

I can't really comprehend how one could be "too lazy to go through the whole process of coming up with an idea". I have enough ideas to order a commission every day, for the rest of my life :/

no, the process is not coming up with an idea, it is coming up with the idea AND searching for an artist that is open AND that has made similar stuff before AND that has adequate quality AND that has adequate prices AND...
The problem is, the first part, the idea, usually comes first and is the reason for the whole thing. You get a nice idea and then decide to search an artist. You don't see an artist that is open and that you like, and then dream up any random idea, it's the other way around. And if you fail to find one initially, because it can take hours, as there is not an easy way to search for "open artists", as time goes on, the idea loses its initial appeal. "I want that right NOW" becomes "I would like that some time". Of those I have now a list of 40 or so.

With YCH on the other hand, if you actually like the pose/idea of it, you know you can have it "now". At the time of seeing it, you have the artist, you can gauge their skill, see the price etc, and if they're not to your liking, you can just move on.

See it this way. YCH are like cakes in a bakery. Commissions are custom made cakes. With the cake on the bakery shelf, you already see what you get and have a price tag to it, but with a custom made cake, you have to find a bakery that offers that, have to ask their prices, inspect previous works and so on. With the added difficulty that bakeries take cake commissions at (for you) random times.
So say you got a nice idea for a cake, but fail to find any bakery for it. A couple of months later you see one reasonably close to your idea on the shelf. Why not buy that one?
(yeah it's not a perfect analogy, but close enough for anyone to get it unless they try to misunderstand it)

Ah, I see, your cake example works well. I'm just lucky enough to be friends with several really good bakers, and never buy from anyone else.

I very much agree with this journal post in all its entirety... 'nuff said.

Along the same lines as you and others have stated...

On a particularly unbusy day, while waiting for laundry to cycle, I kept checking the main page every few minutes. Seemed to run about half YCH ads, with a minimum of one third and one maximum of three fourths of the post being such.

A large majority of my watch feed is advertising for commissions/YCH/subscribe to my Patreon paywall.

It's... sad, really. Galleries turned into rolling ads...

Since I mostly just look at artists I watch and don't look at the browse button, it doesn't really bother me that much. Overall though I kind of like the YCH auctions since the customer can see the exact pose their character will be in before buying.

Made me not really try YCHs seems like normal commissions are just as swampped. Ah well

Its pretty annoying.
I ended up unwatching someone because of the REMINDERS that were posted every day, on their account, and I guess an account where you pay people to post reminders for you? Maybe it was their alt. IDK.
It just got annoying.

Yeah, the YCH reminder problem is back and has been on the rise for more than a year. On top of that, comments and audience participation are WAY down, too.

Most web sites are having this problem. In the last few years, commercialization have overrun the Internet and nobody sees being online as a hobby... not even in fandoms. I can't comment on the popular social media sites (Facebook/Twitter) since I don't use them, but DA and other art sites have the same issue as FA. It's all YCH, Patreon whoring, and begging everywhere.

YouTube has gone WAY downhill over the last couple of years, and now everyone is intertwining 2-minute endorsements into the content. Everybody is so panicked over dropping revenue that they are killing their channels with grotesque amounts of ads.

This is what happens when things stop being hobbies and people only care about money. I've been in the fandom for about 25 years, and it's never been this bad. But, like I said, it's not just the furry community that has this problem. The whole online community has changed a lot in the last 10 years (and I largely blame smart phones and walled gardens for starting this money-grubbing nonsense). 8(

I keep saying that what FA desperately need is an improved tagging system which for starters supports multi-word tags, encourages artists to tag their uploads and allows users to customize their browse/submissions pages based on tags. Giving users more power over what shows up in their submission feed would resolve this and many other problems people have with the site.

There's a great episode of "The Orville" about unsupervised democracy. Say whatever you want about the show or Seth McFarlane or whatever, the principles and warnings in the episode "Majority Rule" are sound.

In that episode, the ship arrives to discover what happened to the anthopologists sent to study a planet that's a close copy of the modern day... except public opinion is LITERALLY EVERYTHING.

When a person on that planet turns 18, they are given an upvote/downvote computerized badge. Everything they do earns ups or downs from people in a public database. It's also tied to their bank account, media presence.. EVERYTHING. Any action that exceeds 1,000,000 downvotes is a capital offense, leading to an "Apology tour". Anyone who reaches 10,000,000 downvotes is "corrected" via electroshock therapy. The Orville crew observes this state of "completely unstructured democracy" as their navigator is taken through what passes for a justice system on the planet.

The Planet of the Redditors. Ew. No thanks.

I feel like the problem is that FA doesn't really offer good ways for artist to connect with people that are looking for commissions and YCHs. Journals simply don't work because a tiny proportion of an artist's followers read them, and as they say, an image is worth a thousand words and I can at a glance tell if I'm interested in what's being offered from a thumbnail. With Journals, you have to pick through a bunch of samey text and half-remembered usernames to figure anything out.

I think the solution is probably something like creating a new category of image for announcement-style image that can be filtered out a bit more easily; until that happens I think we're probably stuck with this situation.

Its all about the money now days, even the shittiest artists start with YCH,patreon or reminders.
This is becomming more insane then the bronie invasion we had some years ago.

They, at least, should enforce the categorization. Anything like sales, ych, auction, teaser etc. in their respective category. If they're not, treat them as spam.