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I think it's time to dump FurAffinity
5 years ago
Anyone who has been keeping track of me on this site for the last decade knows how outspoken I am about freedom of speech and freedom of expression. Over the last few years we've seen all aspects of our online lives being taken over by extreme elements from the political left of our society. I tend to keep this off of my main page as you don't come here for my politics, only my work. However I've noticed a disturbing trend of "rules for thee but not for me" that has become so egregious that I find my patience worn to a hair's width.
I want to show each of you FA's Rules of Conduct section 2.4 (https://www.furaffinity.net/coc)
"Do not harass anyone.
In this context, harassment includes creating an account with an offensive name, impersonation of another user, and remarks which discuss personal grievances, quarrels, malicious rumors, negative statements about, purposefully misgendering or deadnaming other individuals, and attempting to address or contact a user who has blocked you or whom you have blocked, including soliciting other users to pass on messages or otherwise make contact on your behalf. This does not include civil discussions about topics of public interest such as celebrities or government officials, but does include 'bewares' and similar content. If a particular type of content does not appeal to you, then do not seek it out to make disparaging comments. Users with a pattern of this behavior may be cited for harassment."
Now I've noticed something odd about this phrasing where someone can say something inflammatory to you...and you have zero recourse. So is this what you're attempting to push on us Furaffinity? You want to control our speech and allow others to post antagonist comments on our art and in our forums and they're allowed to block us to where we can't respond? You do realize that's silencing of people and if the person making these comments blocks you they're free to move on to the next person to attack? This is beyond unacceptable and I will make it my mission to make this problem known to as many people as possible.
*edit* I also notice how your rules seem to be in clear violation of laws protecting fair use. I'm specifically referring to what appears to be anti-parody policies in your rules. As far as I know federal law trumps your site rules. You might want to look into that because I know I damn sure am!
In case you haven't noticed FA, that most people already hate furries for various reasons. Letting your users berate and insult each other without giving the attacked any means of defense is a sign of how lost you are.
You've already purged a large portion of your userbase by driving them to other sites due to banning and restricting your users. I want a response from the FA Admin for this irresponsible set of rules so that the community can see just how much you're pushing down on them with the thumb of an iron fist.
I want to show each of you FA's Rules of Conduct section 2.4 (https://www.furaffinity.net/coc)
"Do not harass anyone.
In this context, harassment includes creating an account with an offensive name, impersonation of another user, and remarks which discuss personal grievances, quarrels, malicious rumors, negative statements about, purposefully misgendering or deadnaming other individuals, and attempting to address or contact a user who has blocked you or whom you have blocked, including soliciting other users to pass on messages or otherwise make contact on your behalf. This does not include civil discussions about topics of public interest such as celebrities or government officials, but does include 'bewares' and similar content. If a particular type of content does not appeal to you, then do not seek it out to make disparaging comments. Users with a pattern of this behavior may be cited for harassment."
Now I've noticed something odd about this phrasing where someone can say something inflammatory to you...and you have zero recourse. So is this what you're attempting to push on us Furaffinity? You want to control our speech and allow others to post antagonist comments on our art and in our forums and they're allowed to block us to where we can't respond? You do realize that's silencing of people and if the person making these comments blocks you they're free to move on to the next person to attack? This is beyond unacceptable and I will make it my mission to make this problem known to as many people as possible.
*edit* I also notice how your rules seem to be in clear violation of laws protecting fair use. I'm specifically referring to what appears to be anti-parody policies in your rules. As far as I know federal law trumps your site rules. You might want to look into that because I know I damn sure am!
In case you haven't noticed FA, that most people already hate furries for various reasons. Letting your users berate and insult each other without giving the attacked any means of defense is a sign of how lost you are.
You've already purged a large portion of your userbase by driving them to other sites due to banning and restricting your users. I want a response from the FA Admin for this irresponsible set of rules so that the community can see just how much you're pushing down on them with the thumb of an iron fist.
It's a walled garden that is increasingly becoming run down and horrible.
artists threatening and blocking users who were a previous costumer in the past AND PAID THEM, only to be treated like shit and insulted, called a troll cause i for one Love knots. how the hell that makes me a troll cause they dont like knots? makes no fucking sense
making excuses and lies from a stream, btw no one streams as much. thus they can and may do the same to the next person
regardless how many more users on here that can still pay them, nothings stopping them from blocking and being an ass to users
if they kept this up, word of it will and should get around. its just unacceptable. well thats my 2cents
Whomever wrote these "rules" might just find themselves actually facing legal action over this shit. FA you better start fucking paying attention!
idk if thats the same but as i said, i like knots and species yet some furs and artists dont. ok fine but its NOT fine to insult those who do
As long as it's not furrynetwork
let's also remember this little incident happened and I'm not going to name any names... just an interesting video with an interesting timestamp. that's all...
I wouldn't want to be a cyberbully now...
ik years late but geez
I see a positive feedback in that thing: if admins get too many complains and spend too much time on reviewing reported behavior, maybe that will show the rules have to be softened somehow.
Now, on YOUR side of the thing: do I understand you critic the root fact and legitimate personal right that people can block others?
"You do realize that's silencing of people and if the person making this comments blocks you they're free to move on to the next person to attack?" --> so these people shouldn't be allowed to block you, is that what you suggest? Do you go for a no-blocking-at-all thing? Or for a semi- kind, but then who will decide what is to be blocked or not and who is allowed to block and who is not? This is truly arbitrary if I don't know any better.
Moderiating a site, moreover when it becomes gigantic like FA, is not an easy piece of cake, and I would be really interested in being told what kind of solutions you would have to propose.
I used the analogy of being punched in the face to another comment in this thread. So please explain to us how blocking someone back is any form of justice and fairness? The damage has been done, the fact that they preemptively block you shows they're only willing to dish out as much shit as they want and not face consequences for it. You can't tell me that these people are being punished when a simple glance at the comments on any sufficiently popular image will reveal this to be utter fucking false.
Yeah, I want the block button removed personally, but I'm also not stupid and know that some people do have legitimate reason for blocking people. Here's the thing - if you're going to regulate people's content then you are required to regulate the same for everyone without exception. Instead these rules are written to serve select groups (such as "deadnaming and misgendering" being made specifically to give transgender more protection). This is a rules bias, period, and it's open for abuse and corruption.
You don't get to perform a hit-and-run and then be protected from your actions.
So it is true that I don't have much to complain about, my block list is limited to a handful people in 13 years and a half, half of them being there because of what happened on a completely different site. For the moment, the way I see things is either people who have problems mostly called for them in the first place, or I am being an incredibly candid person - probably a good mix between the two in my opinion.
All this to tell you that I don't really understand all this fuss, and I'd like you to enlighten me if there is REALLY something bad happening - and by that, I mean having BOTH sides of the story, not just the "victim" one - I have seen just too many times so-called victims who were the real roots of problems (so many I've seen on FA).
Bloking somone back is not a form of justice, and fairness, true, it is a personal choice and a right, and I used it a couple times with great satisfaction. We are HUMANS here and you will NEVER prevent some people to insult you and block you after. So now tell me again, what do you recommend, because it is something good to expose, but it is a lot better to propose solutions: do you advise a police investigation on each new member to be sure they are not violent? Completed with a medical one to be sure there isn't any psychiatric issue, and a religious-or-whatever-you-call-it one to be assured the new one is of good morale? Sounds kinda worse than the block button don't you think? I hope you think so. Then please, propose something!!
I'd really like you to explain me more about what's happening with the rules that make you cringe, what kind of injustice it brings. How you find there are exceptions to those limiting rules, to whom. You are talking about "selected groups", who are they? Please give me examples.
There will always be injustice in rules, you just have to think about if they are MORE or LESS than some others. And how they can evolve considering the context.
You want my solution? Sure! I'll give you one. Remove the block button, make everyone have to face each other's wrath equally.
Here's another. Make blocking someone require justification. You don't get to just hit block, you put in a ticket (which we know doesn't work here) and then it's the site's job to regulate its users.
Yet another would be to remove the ability to block someone site-wide. You can block them from commenting on your userpage or your posts, but NOT on comments you make on other people's posts. Do you realize how easy it is to simply circumvent the current rules?
You're trying to defend this as if I'm asking for the impossible or something unreasonable. This is a classic tactic to demoralize, deflect, and misdirect. I will not be swayed here. This doesn't even touch on the myriad of issues FA has had for years, but this one is enough to break Federal Law. I'd think twice before backing this pony, Asthexiancal, it's on it's way to the glue factory.
There's no laws telling people how to run their web communities, it just ain't a thing.
The key consideration in the cake case is that of human rights and protected groups - if a website banned a protected group, that could be subject to legal challenge, but "block function" doesn't come close to approaching that.
If you remove this block button, with the size of FA you'll get so many reports to the admins that they won't be able to do any of their job at all, resulting in the harrassed people to leave the site (or going to depression or suicide) and leaving the trolls free here. What a charming perspective!!!
Your idea of the block feature requirng justification is interesting. yet THIS is a kind of limitation of personal freedom, exactly what you denounce. But I like it anyway, though once again that means it needs somebody behind to review all the justifications and take the according actions if necessary. I think that means making FA a paying site to hire some more admins. Because, yes, you realize this takes a lot of time and during all this time, humans need to eat and pay their bills.
About removing the site-wide blocking, I have mixed feelings, I think it may have as much advantages as drawbacks, and it should be tried to analyze the results.
Now I also asked you twice practical examples of group discriminations by FA but you still did not answer that point, is it because you don't have any? As long as you won't be able to provide me any, I will consider most of that rant unfounded - I hope you understand it is not against you, but I refuse to follow some random personal vendetta, there are just too many around.
Objective facts please or nothing happened here.
Fixed it for you.
You need to remember that for every one comment you see that challenges you there are hundreds if not thousands more too afraid to call you out. I am not one of them.
I will NOT be blamed for someone else's mental health, especially given that I have my own to deal with, and I will most certainly NOT be blamed for someone else's death! You want to talk about harassment, Hybrid? Let's talk about accusing someone of murder and this site lets them get away with it. Yet we'll be punished for a misgendering? FA needs to get its priorities sorted out.
You've lost the plot.
I'm willing to be you're young so I'll provide some insight for you. Some of us, especially us Gen-X'rs, have a solid foundation that we base our principles off of. First and foremost being equality under the law. Be that the supreme court or FA's rules of conduct it's all the same. If you have a function on your site that is not properly implemented to prevent abuse you're complicit in that abuse. FA could put a stop to this now by properly enforcing their own rules by not allowing people to comment-and-run. That puts people on edge and fosters anger and resentment.
How about I try it here and say you're an oblivious idiot who couldn't tell his ass from a hole in the ground and then I block you from commenting further on this post?
Now try that with someone posting something negative about your character. Like making a claim that you abuse small animals. I think block you so that the accusation stands there. Sure, I could 'Hide Comment' but that leaves a trail. They could then do it again, and again, and again, and again. Do you see the problem yet?
How about I start doing that? Not outright violate the rules but just comment on everything you make in a snarky condescending way. It would build up over time and by definition THAT'S HARASSMENT YOU TURD.
Now that we have that out of the way that's enough of the baiting, Hybrid. You can tell from my comments that I'm pretty far from insecure. I don't need anyone's attention, I get more than I can handle daily, and I don't need to self-censor to protect someone else's feelings. I'm no mind reader so I couldn't even do that anyway. People need to learn to communicate before just bursting into tears over a perceived slight. Furries need to grow the hell up.
It's called the block feature. it is there for all to use. what's wrong with it?
"equality under the law"
everyone has a block feature
"FA could put a stop to this now by properly enforcing their own rules by not allowing people to comment-and-run"
the block feature is a thing
"How about I try it here and say you're an oblivious idiot who couldn't tell his ass from a hole in the ground and then I block you from commenting further on this post?"
you have every right to do that, it's your page. (block feature)
"They could then do it again, and again, and again, and again"
not if you block them
"How about I start doing that? Not outright violate the rules but just comment on everything you make in a snarky condescending way"
It would be harassment if I let it happen and didn't use the block feature. which would also make it just as much my fault. don't worry, I know how to use this feature.
"Furries need to grow the hell up"
so grow up and use the block feature
really don't see the problem with the blocking thing, it would solve all your problems
I don't have time for this petty shit. I'm trying to address a real problem and you simply disregard my points.
Yeah, we all have the block button but not all of us abuse it. That's a fugkin stupid argument and you know it.
I'm not an authoritarian, even you have the right to spout your bullshit out at us without restraint. Some of us prize freedom over convenience.
"not if you block them" Oh yes, let's talk about THIS one for a bit shall we? If the solution is that simple why is there even a section on harassment to begin with? If it's as simple as blocking someone why even have that written? Because it's an oversight. It's poorly written and not thought out, much like what you've been doing with MY comments. When the solution is universal silencing what's going to happen when everyone's cut out each others's tongues? Did you even put some thought into that, Hybrid?
You're so hyper focused on that part of the argument that you can't see the forest through the trees. You think you're smart but you're demonstrating a staggering lack of critical thinking. Instead you're defending what, given my comments, is actually the concern of a large number of the userbase. If it were just me then why are there so many people speaking up to say the same thing?
No, they don't matter cause they're not towing the line. Isn't that right, Hybrid?
I'm the one speaking out against silencing. So again you're not paying attention.
It's not my fault nor is it my problem that you can't keep up with the conversation. Considering that most everyone else doesn't seem to be having this problem shows you're projecting.
What the fuck are you talking about fix my problems? YOU don't know MY problems. My journal where I talk about my mental health is vague intentionally, doesn't specify what the issue is (considering it's medical) so how would you have ANY idea what tools are available for it? You don't. You've lost the plot and you're trying to pass your failings on to me. Fuck right off with that.
No, I don't troll. I mean what I say even if it's harsh like a cheese grater. Just to let you know, being direct and filterless is not the same as being an asshole. Bringing up someone's admitted health problems, however, IS.
Good going, Hybrid, you trolled yourself.
Dude, I'm not your library, I'm not here to red-pill you, and I'm not here to cater to your demands.
If you're not willing to use information from both sides of the political isle then you don't have a leg to stand on. You say I haven't demanded proof but haven't stated what you want proven. It's deflection. How about using that magical device called a computer, go to the internet and actually look this shit up on a RIGHT WING site for once! Otherwise you're just a brainwashed sheep who's unable to break their programming long enough to look on the other side of the mirror. So fuck off with that baiting bullshit.
What flaws? Do you mean like the flaws we have now were certain voices are propped up above others and that others are actively silenced? I kind of think I've made that fucking point several times on this journal, you prick.
What ad hominem? I laid out my complaints quite clearly, you're trying to reinterpret them and then claiming my point undefined. Fuck you
No, that's still the person's choice if they don't want to stay. That's still freedom, you communist douche.
You haven't once asked me to clarify anything, you only claim that I haven't while not telling me which part you seem to be taking issue with. You're trying to set me up as being deceptive while you're doing exactly that by trying to spin this into me being evasive. Say what the fuck you want or shut the fuck up about deflection, you disingenuous hack!
Don't even try this with me again, Hybrid. I'm not playing this fucking game.
you have failed to provide a single example that I could find on this page. If i missed it, please let me know.
I'm not even sure how that would work on this site. on twitter or facebook sure but here? there's no feed? please explain.
Scroll down to 'Hate Group Bans' to see that FA went on a banning spree, cutting down anybody they "perceived" as Alt-right groups while not coming down on leftist groups such as Antifa. They even went to court over this. Why is this? Why is Antifa allowed on here when they are by definition, and legally classified, as a terrorist organization while all of these Right wing groups are outright ejected? Who decides the distinction here?
As far as there being a feed for it...man, I'm not sure how to break this to you, but there's not gonna be a Twitter or Facebook feed of them actively censoring people, that's just naivete.
oh, for the feed thing, I just meant that twitter and such do filter what you see. youtube is especially notorious for that right now since subscribers don't see a new upload for weeks. I thought that's what you meant by censoring.
also, I count about 24 insults, you should chill dude, you're gonna get a hernia.
"alt-right is described" notice your wording there, Hybrid? not proven, just described without evidence. That's the issue isn't it? FA decided to make that distinction without actually listing anyone in specific. It's a blanket term that they label anyone they want to ban with. They have gone to court over this yet you still try to defend it? Shooooocking.
Antifa is a TERRORIST group, you putz. Not just described that way but they are the literal definition of it. The fact that you're an apologist for a group that seeks to bring harm to everyone not in their group while claiming that white nationalists "hate and wish harm on everyone else" is so staggeringly hypocritical that it's almost hard to fathom.
You do realize that you're still selectively choosing who gets to speak and who doesn't? That's still censorship, that's still giving one group a voice while silencing another. You claim that one group wishes to harm everyone else but we can actually SEE Antifa out on the streets instigating these riots.
So tell us, Hybrid, how can you reconcile your claims against the visible video evidence of Antifa violently attacking their fellow citizens, in great numbers across the country i might add, with the claims of a mysterious white-nationalist threat...that has yet to manifest despite no evidence of it at all? How can you try to regurgitate the same lies even when the very group you're defending has dropped the facade in favor of open insurrection?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-n1pHHNYH-E
You seem to have very much missed what i said. Alt-right is a loosely organized group. They have a clear mission. White supremacy. This makes them a hate group. You cannot have free speech or free anything with those people.
Antifa on the other hand is not an organized group. They are anti fascist, which is an idea.
I understand that people are using this label to attack people but it simply is not a hate group because it's an idea.
This is not censorship any more than stopping someone from screaming profanities at you. NO ONE wants that or wants to be around that.
Seems like your only problem is that white nationalists are being silenced. Not a good look dude.
Also that's like 26 insults now and btw the court case got thrown out so you can stop using that now.
And good ol' Joe eh? Why am I not suprised...
This debate is OVER, seeing as you just conceded defeat by openly proving my point. You're a bigot, Hybrid.
On a side note - I don't give a flying fuck how many insults you count, dipshit. Don't think you can shame me into silence with that pathetic display.
Just like I've told everybody else who tries that shit, Hybrid - everyone can see this and you're only fooling your own ideology with that shit.
If you think that I'm going to feel guilty about defending people's rights to express themselves freely you've got another thing coming. You won't shame me into giving up on my principles, Asthexiancal.
For your information, talking about depression and suicide after being bullied is not appealing to emotions, IT IS A FACT. But obviously you are so afraid of this reality you prefer to turn your back on it, throw insults and cut all sensible discussion.
You are a great artist, but as a person you only deserve my complete indifference.
"you only deserve my complete indifference." really? So it's "You disagree so you're not a person to me anymore!"? Yeah really classy bit of moral grandstanding there, Asthexiancal. That totally makes you right, mhmm.
But really, I'd watch you twice if I could. It's refreshing to see rational people.
https://www.furaffinity.net/view/33400574/
I'm a Libertarian. I Adore free speech and the Right of expression, but we cannot even express ourselves without being attacked left, right, and center with insults, personal attacks, ad homina, and the like.
while the mods side with the left and do little, if WE step out of line even in the slightest, we get censured.
90% I come to FA for the arts (porn), but 10% of my visits are for the community, the friends, I have made and been a part of this last decade plus...
I'm just some opinionated asshole people ignore unless I comment on Their pages.
I used to journal here a couple times a week... I MIGHT get one, even as high as TWO whole views... and no comments on my journals
I Have ZERO reach. no one listens to me.
now, while I wish I could reach more people, I'm also NOT going to shove MY OPINIONS down anybodies throat, that goes against my personal value system
it's like with the whole 'nazi-furs' thing. they are f*cking idiots true... but they should be allowed to speak if for no other reason so people can listen to them, decide they are retarded and those Ignore Them. if no one hears how STUPID they are someone Might get the wrong idea and take them seriously.
I FUCKING HATE NAZI's. but they should be allowed to talk so people can judge for themselves how INSANE they are.
and in a simular vien, I say anything and everything I WANT to say... but no one listens because I don't make art and post porn.
Then some douche canoe posts a picture of his 19 super extra large horse cock dildos from bad dragon, but That's Art because of all the different colors and he custom ordered all of them!
*eyeroll*
And is there any reason that people shouldn't post pictures of dildos?
If you made the dildo yourself, then it's arts and crafts and can be posted. if you bought it, then it's collection and you are NOT supposed to post it. like I said, read the TOS
oh, and way to come into the conversation THREE YEARS LATER...
And I'm not aware of any rule, let alone any reason, not to make a comment at any time. Personally I welcome them.
It kind of seems like you're not mad about features or other choices, but instead about losing a culture war that I'm unaware of. If you're looking to discuss something other than statements of fact, I'm sorry, again, but that wasn't my intention.
I'm not being dismissive, your reply just had literally nothing to do with mine.
So tell us, piopio1949, what exactly is so bad about not sugar coating things? Are you so used to having your bottom dusted with baby powder and pampered that words tear your paper-thin hide? I have no sympathy for grown ass people expecting politeness and decorum while not reciprocating.
If what you wish for is a site full of people with the same mind-set you're going to start finding an art site with a disturbing lack of creativity.
Just food for thought.
I'd say your points were being attacked. Not you.
Which is the problem. You react to your points being attacked by attacking the person.
It's why even though I agree with a lot of your initial points, I can't find myself siding with you. You react with extreme aggression to anyone who even shows a hint at disagreeing with you while being all lovey-dovey with anyone else.
I'm exhausted from the constant on-edge tension. If this is the future of FA you guys can have it - I'm out.
There's some I don't - but that's just the nature of being independent. It's a good thing. Someone I consider a good friend has sometimes wildly different political opinions than myself and I find it helps to temper myself.
Another thing to maybe keep in mind, and I know I've fallen for this as well, is the media (on both sides of the field before anyone picks a side) has been sowing seeds of divisiveness. It labels fellow people as the enemy while painting itself as paragons.
It's why I side with these protests. In the USA, the media and politicians spend every day pitting people against each other. And then the police gets to mop up the people who act on these narratives. Whether it be the White Supremacists who are convinced BLM are terrorists out to take all their freedoms, or the edgelord who's convinced being "antifa" means burning someones shop to the ground. The media sows these seeds and then does the surprised pikachu face when a White Supremacist drives his truck into a crowd of protestors or some shitstain burns someones shop down.
As in "content moderation standards for anyone who isn't sucking the mods' dicks."
It's because you know, deep down, that actually coming out and saying "They're oppressing me by not allowing me to be an asshole on their platform" is obviously nonsense. I can't tell you to commit an act of self-harm for the same reasons - it's just not productive for a community to allow its members to be total pieces of shit.
You're not being "censored", you're being told to fuck off because nobody likes your bullshit. No court in the land will convict someone for kicking out an asshole. You aren't part of the protected category of "pricks who love to pretend that their civil rights are being infringed by common decency", because that's not a protected category.
Why not go make your own neo-conservative furry website so that we can all watch it fail for the millionth time?
Couldn't have said it better myself
Ask any of the people on this site that know me in person and they'll debunk your little narrative outright. You've lost all credibility, Nviom.
But do go on calling people delusional, the irony is rich.
You seem like a smart individual but you need to look up from your computer screen and see the world for what it is from time to time.
I'd like to hazard a guess that you learned about this "magic law" from a website, and not from reading the laws themselves, considering you would have required a jumping-off point to start your research from, so telling me not to "believe what I'm told" is a bit silly.
Here's, you know, lawyers assoicated with a human rights association saying the same thing: https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2018/.....rms-be-neutral
If you can point me to a written law that says that publishers can't moderate their content, or anything even close to that, I'd be interested, but I'm certain you won't be able to.
What's funny is that despite your whining about censorship, by attempting to undermine Sec 230, you're actually fighting to allow the government to censor any website they find distasteful completely just by virtue of having a comments section or user-generated content.
Also, websites can certainly tell you to fuck off, for basically any reason - or none at all. It's their website, it's their property, you can't force them to do anything.
Are you saying that we should be allowed to misgender and deadname because free speech?
(also private companies are allowed to say what they do and do not allow. It's the US government who has to abide by the free speech thing.)
https://www.techdirt.com/articles/2.....ublisher.shtml
Additionally, to say that a publisher "has to" publish whatever it's given is ridiculous on its face - take a look at the New York Times. If I send them an article, do they have to print it? No, obviously.
I swear it's like talking to the press, always think you have some kind of grounds to demand a thing from us.
My best friend (who I won't name but IS on this site) is transgender and I have supported her, with only a bit of resistance over this very subject, since day one. When she told me she was transitioning I responded as anyone who loves someone would, with a smile and my upmost encouragement.
Now that you have some context for who I am and my own personal experiences over being harassed about my sexuality and my relationship to the trans community I'll answer you in the most honest way possible - I'm saying that misgendering and deadnaming don't exist. They're made up. A fantasy. Intersectional nonsense of the highest caliber. Something only made to make people feel special and in their own little category. It's divisive propaganda meant to separate trans people into an identity group. It's a way to 'other' these people and keep them as outsiders instead of being allowed to simply BE what they are. The whole thing is meant to draw attention to people that would otherwise not be treated any differently.
It's an insult to trans people and anyone that supports that nonsense is throwing trans rights under the bus.
On a side not this particular individual proves my point by making that comment then blocking me so I couldn't respond. Oh yes, such a very helpful feature to be able to instigate more anger then run away and hide behind your block. Now where have we seen this behavior before?
If that's someone's prerogative? Absolutely. If they face social ramifications then that's between them and people involved.
I want the website to show some fuckin integrity and stop trying to police us, and THIS FUCKING GUY thinks he's gonna try to spin it to where I'm the one being authoritarian? Man, fuck you. You don't get to spin this shit like that.
Compelled speech is just as much of an issue under the first amendment, as I'm sure you'd agree, so what's your point if not "their rules bad because force, my rules good despite force".
Pointing out logical contradictions is not putting words in your mouth. If you hadn't considered the meaning of your words, that's on you, not me.
Calling for less regulation is the opposite of compelling compliance from a company. It would be like telling someone they were enslaving their dog by taking of its collar. What a shitty way to try to spin my argument.
I think you'll find that what rules there are do apply 'across the board', except to some chuds that dragoneer likes to suck up to. Weirdly, these chuds are right-wingers and not leftists, but whatever, if you hate 'em, good.
I'm angry at a lot of people, that much is evident, but in the end I just want everyone to live without fear to express themselves. Sometimes you find divine meaning under the most vulgar, evocative, and revolting words. People don't seem to know how to communicate anymore. Ironic given this is the information age,
But fine, I'll bite:
https://encyclopediadramatica.wiki/......php/Jasonafex
https://en.wikifur.com/wiki/History.....000_user_posts
Nate seems to be arguing that nobody should get banned for anything ever, which... shrug
"I'm saying FA shouldn't be restricting ANYONE'S right to speak."
i.e. nobody should get banned for anything ever
FA should make it so that if you reply to someone first, they can still speak to you in that thread for a period of time, or just hide all comments made by the blocker to the blockee in the last 24 hours.
The only solutions here are:
1. do not allow the person blocking to communicate with who they've blocked in other comment threads
2. Allow the person that was blocked to respond to comments where they were commented to
3. Hide comments the blocker made to the one being blocked publicly if made 24 hours before the block.
I would be fine with a person not seeing comments of a person they have blocked, but it won't end the habit some have of leaving a nasty comment the other can't reply to so they get the last word in, or continue harassing the person after blocking them.
Person 'A' visits an artist's page and makes a comment on that's objectively inflammatory and hostile, but not explicitly against the site's vague rules, then blocks the artist and leaves.
Person 'B' is now left with no way to address the comment in total disregard to their well being but it's still allowed in the vague guidelines of the site.
Person 'A' could comment again, block, repeat, and as long as they're not breaking the rules outright they can continue ad nauseam.
Either person could also face severe punishments if either Person A or Person B winds up breaking one of the other rules because of favoritism to Person C. This is particularly hazardous with the trans issue I listed above. We're on a site that uses cartoon avatars for everyone. You can be anything you want, change at any time, no limitations. So what prevents someone from suddenly claiming that they're now male-to-female trans, without prior notice or a change to their avatar, in order to bait someone into unknowingly violating these rules?
This is just an example as I said but you see how poorly written these rules are with a clear bias to treat users differently based on arbitrary characteristics. This needs to be one law applicable to everyone equally.
Wow, so hard.
Couldn't have said it better myself" take it elsewhere, dude. You're the bias I'm speaking of. You would rather us self-censor than address the problem. If you aren't willing to take it seriously you don't have any business here.
outside of that, you have failed to give any example of that. I.E. if someone was to say a racial slur, is that not against the rules? that's the type of thing that would be blocked and would go right along side misgendering. hate speech as a whole is what seems like is blocked.
calling someone a piece of shit artist and being rude, could be considered harassment if they do things such as comment, block, unblock, comment, block etc and if that's against the rules, you have the ability to report users, if i'm not mistaken. that teslls FA "hey there's a baddie right there, can u plz take care of it" if you fail to do your part, then that's your fault, not FAs.
However if it's just one comment then i doubt theyre going to do anything. people are dicks. it's gonna happen. if it's not a racial slur, they might be able to just be rude. this isn't a small or well maintained discord server with active mods seeing the chat 24/7. this is a massive forum with a TON of users. the staff can't function by themselves all the time and if you want "free speech" then get used to people being rude, or dont give them a reason to.
Secondly you've misunderstood my case. It's not about people being "mean". The fact that you even frame it that way makes me think you're wanting to change the direction of the conversation. See, here's the thing, we've always had to deal with people being rude, but when people are rude AND have the ability to silence you then it's tyranny.
After having several people here prove my point I've exhausted myself on this thread.
you claim and start accusing me of "trying to change the convo" but you wont even then go and correct me or explain yourself and just leave it at that. thats not helping this conversation or your case lol
Here's the thing - if you bludgeon people with your ideology enough they eventually fight back regardless of your arguments. Just look around you and see how much people are tired of that shit so that time is now. Despite what all of you lefty lunatics think we no longer care about being civil with you, especially since you damn sure weren't with us.
Cheers, asshat! :D
not trying to be insulting, just being honest. you literally didnt say anything that had to do with anything. Ik you said you're leaving but then you come back, so idk if you'll come back after this one, maybe you're serious this time.
but if you think i'm a "crazy lefty" then you're mistaken lol
I don't give one shit about yours or anyone else's opinion as you obviously don't give a shit about mine.
So leave well enough alone and pound sand.
not caring about others is kinda insensitive though, just saying. regardless of what you think, that is by definition "an ass hole"
At first I was honestly on board, because FA is literally a cesspool of negativity (at times.) But that literally wasn't even called for.
That is a problem that I've noticed also, particularly in auctions that rely on comment chains.
As for the parody rules, it could be that there have been recent changes to EU law in regards to parodies and copyright law, and liability for online platforms. I believe it's called 'Article 13'. While FA is a US-based website, they still make their services to Europeans, and so avail themselves of EU law and jurisdiction.
FA has no requirement to adhere to ANY law outside of america, so long as their main servers are inside america, article 13 or no article 13. This also makes them liable to any and all federal laws.
Also the idea that most people just use twitter to slander each other and fa won’t do a damn thing about it. I understand it’s a third party site but they’re using it to harass others and FA allows it and it’s rather sickening.
I was wondering if there even is a sizeable furry site at this point that values freedom of speech but honestly I've come to despise this fandom too much to care anymore
The latest update and discovering they're using AI algorithms to enforce the "no fascism" definitely pushed me towards setting up shop elsewhere. First of all, since they turned their dipshit AI loose on the site, the biggest hits on my list have been a historical artist that draws WWII military uniforms, another artist that runs a Hogan's Heroes-esque WWII comic (because of historically accurate uniforms,) and someone posting a picture of a guy getting punched for wearing a swastika. Because yes, those three are totally the first three types of art that come to mind when I think of art that promotes fascism. Remind me again why we should trust an AI for fucking anything?
Second... I know my history and I know my poetry. And if it stopped at JUST fascist symbols then that's something I could accept. But after listening to the people pushing for these changes much more then I should... it will NOT stop at JUST fascist symbols and ideology. They will demand that another thing is banned, and another, and another, then another after that. And each thing will become progressively less and less related to fascism, conservatism, or whatever the hell else those hypocrites are bothered about. So with that foresight, I prepare to relocate myself. And prepare myself for a fight no matter where I end up.
so I get your issues, and I hope wherever you go, or whatever you do, that you find yourself in a better place where you can be happy :)
Dude... no. FA is a privately-owned site. If they want to ban the word "banana," they have every right to do so and to enforce the ban. Our society is increasingly litigious and offence-reactive. That may not be super cool, but what's less cool is getting shut down by 'Badgers Against Defamation and Mean Anti-Norweigans'. Or Hasbro, for that matter. High profile targets have to play by the rules of a fucked up society, or society will fuck them up.
Now this brings us to private platforms overall. So even if FA or Twitter or whoever was stripped of their 203 protection, they would still legally be allowed to censor any content they want in almost any circumstances. FA or Twitter is like a bulletin board owned by a church or the ones inside of Five Guys. The site is their private property, and they can legally 100% ban any speech they wish. The first amendment only guarantees free speech under the law. That is to say, protected speech is not punishable as a crime. It doesn't put any requirements on privately held spaces. Five Guys doesn't have to let you post anything they happen to not like on their bulletin board, and they can be totally arbitrary and capricious in the rules for that if they wish. The same applies to FA and all other privately held websites. In fact any free speech protections we might make an argument for, legally, would be lessened if FA were to be considered a publisher (not falling under 203) because then they would be considered to be fully responsible for all content on the site. Our words/art etc. would be considered content published by them and you especially cannot force a publisher to make speech on your behalf that they don't want, much in the same way that you cant sue Penguin for refusing to publish your book. They can refuse even if they just don't like the font you used or how you look or smell or anything. This is doubly true for FA since they make money through advertising and the content on the site, which brings in an entirely separate case they could make about protecting their profitability which I wont get into.
I know all that doesn't have much to do with your objections to FA's policies, but I keep seeing a lot of confusion about private platforms and free speech and I just wanted to give you my understanding. On a personal note, I would be sad if you left since I enjoy your art. I would also say: why not consider FA as a platform for sharing and displaying art and not as a forum for public discourse? Then I think concerns about their policies in this area become a lot less important. I will miss seeing your lovely art if you go!
This is in no way to invalidate your point. it's just a trivia reply.
I will say that many private sites and businesses choose to allow most if not all legal content in agreement with the principle of freedom of speech, even if they don't legally have to. I do kind of have a soft spot for policies like that.
On the other hand, I think FA can certainly make the argument that their policies are designed to keep people on the site from getting upset about communications directed at them (which I would say they have a business case to argue for to keep people enjoying their site). They might say that their overriding concern is to foster a friendly and pleasant environment and that they want to deter anyone from disturbing that too much. That wouldn't be very good for a public forum for discussing the issues of the day, but it's maybe not the worst tack to take for running a site for sharing art (so I guess it all depends on how you view the site).
As far as I can see section 2.4 is designed to prevent anyone from 'bothering' (or harassing I should say I guess since that's the title of the section) someone who doesn't want to interact, and they list a bunch of ways that they say someone might do that. Doesn't seem too bad to me in principle.
I do see your point about someone saying something mean to you, and then you can't argue back to them if they block you. I could understand how that might be frustrating, but I would also say that under these rules you might be able to report them. You could certainly block them as well (and you can delete their comments on your submissions and stuff right? I don't post anything so I've never had to do that).
I wonder if it might be worth posting a note in the site forums or similar to point out the "Here's something nasty but I blocked first so if you contact me back you're in trouble" effect of these rules, especially if you have experienced it personally. I would say there's a case there that the initial nasty post before blocking you would fall under "remarks which discuss personal grievances, quarrels, malicious rumors, negative statements..." part. Especially the phrase 'negative statements'. Looks to me like they are effectively saying play nice with each other. Something like the old Bambi 'if you can't say something nice...' bit (not the worst possible take in my opinion). If so they probably want to call out the 'tag you're it, I'm home free' thing explicitly. You should get in trouble for initiating in such cases.
Anyway I hope you stick around :)
"Wow...just...wow...I regret EVER having commissioned you." and proceeded to block me. I'm feeling hurt and not enjoying the site when someone says that. Do I get a cookie too?
FA has holes that need to be plugged (giggity) but hasn't done shit to do so in all these years I've been here. I'm finally speaking out about it and as you can see some people are less than happy about it.
Certainly I see that you feel that those the concepts of deadnaming and misgendering are not good concepts, and you would argue against them. However, knowing that some bigoted people today deliberately use those concepts to target and harass trans people, wouldn't you say that currently more harm would be done by allowing deadnaming and misgendering than not? I would say it's better to work within the community to persuade others to your point of view on the concepts than argue against the rules themselves.
I will also say that anti-trans folks are so well known for attacking on and with those concepts that, at this point, arguing against them looks and feels rather like attacking the trans community itself (which I'm going to assume, from what you've said above, is not your intention). So you would have to do so in a very careful and measured way to make sure you aren't seen as attacking trans folks. I think that is what is getting a lot of people in these comments upset at you.
By not just treating trans people as normal people you wind up segregating them. They become eternally an out-group. They're transitioning, that doesn't entitle you to some kind of trophy nor does it mean you have to be reclassified in order so that people know you're trans. The whole point is to transition smoothly so that no one thinks twice about it. Not to constantly have a parade because someone wanted to switch. Enough with the coddling people, you're actually treating these people like inferiors when you do.
I don't give a shit about the anti-trans people and neither should you. Look around you, no one pays them any attention anymore. The vast majority of people support trans rights. Just because a few people decide to be intolerant does not make them vast in numbers or even relevant. Tell me how many anti-trans persons you run into on a daily basis? Then compare it to how many people would rip into you for wrong-think here on FA. I guarantee you without a shred of doubt that the numbers are vastly skewed against the anti-trans people.
This argument ISN'T going to fly anymore. Most of us aren't stupid and we don't need to hear justifications from people who want to segregate us and constantly keep us separated into rival camps. After all we're supposed to be in this together.
You're such an asshole.
I've been in the fandom for fourteen years and what it is now is not what I fell in love with. The activists and extremists are in the site staff, the con organisers, even in the local meets and orgs and IM groups. It is no longer a place to feel welcome or to express yourself, it is a place to toe the fucking line or else.
It's gotten to a point that I don't want to be involved with this whole deal so much, that I'd rather just stop being a furry altogether.. but at the same time I don't want to give them a reason to continue.
So I don't and I keep going while trying to be on a more reasonable stance here and there where possible.
The furry fandom is steadily becoming the worst parts of twitter with more dicks. And the people who might mediate this are hip deep in encouraging it.
And it's become business to be an activist. Just look at all the companies standing with BLM lately.
I hate that antagonizing people with this "us vs them" mentality, and shilling to people's emotions has become so popular.. and especially profitable, the media that weren't so hardpressed on opinion pieces are being forced into going for a hard leftist bias since they're dying out otherwise. Not even mentioning the fearmongering for people not speaking in a far-leftist way about it being part of the problem.
That said, I've been very much against FA for years now. I'm here because, well, everyone else is pretty much. And other art sites that try to compete do not end up as well. (Looking at you, Weasyl.) Whether it is or not, it feels like a monopoly so I'm stuck using this site to a degree. But I've personally seen moderates act bias and other such BS over the years of being on here so, even if I don't fully understand the reasoning, I can't blame anyone really for wanting to leave here. :/
Well that was not where I was meaning to go but hey it's still apropos. FA has a such a blind spot due to their bias that they're not seeing their own rules being circumvented via the very functions they claim is meant to protect people from it.
Fix this shit, FA and I'll go back to whinging about my abysmal mental health and shut up about your disaster!
Reading through some of the above comments, I think I understand the complaint being about the ability to unblock, post something troublesome, then quickly reblock leaving the person on the receiving end with no options other than a report which may or may not do anything. Is this right?
If so, I can definitely see the annoyance. I was in a similar situation (person blocked me then continued to "reply" to my previous message which ended up bombing me with notifications from said person). I ended up getting in trouble, though, when I filed a complaint because my mate told them to knock it off because I should have controlled him. But, of course, the person was a popular artist so no surprise.
From what little I've seen of your politics, I'm not sure I agree with them. But I think you have the right to express them so long as your opinion isn't that people so go kill themselves or something like that. And the site here should be the same.
I'm a Gen-X'r and even back in the 90's when I was watching my nieces I noticed an horrific lack of accountability for these children. They were coddled, allowed to disrespect and outright disobey authority figures, spoiled mercilessly, and subjected to television and radio that pushed these young girls to be vacuous, shallow, abusive creatures.
One of them was arrested at 12 years old for selling METH to other students in her elementary school. The other nearly got a 22 year old man shot by lying to him about her age and telling him she was stealing her father's car to go to his place to have sex with him. She was 13. The sheer volume of garbage these children consumed to warp their minds was staggering. They would throw things at me and scream in my face. Know what their parents would do? Threaten violence against me if I even spoke up to their kids. I was in my 20s at the time and we're talking about 3 and 4 year olds. They had no accountability and were allowed to show others down with a word. I now see a whole generation of these kids online telling me that I'm not allowed to speak freely.
You know what irks me the most about it? The fact that we're not being ASKED to use different vocabulary, we're being TOLD. Fuck that, I bow to no one now and I wish I could go back in time to tell their parents off.
I think what FA does is trying to make sure it doesn't turn into the shit-show of what Twitter has become. Just look at all the witchhunts and accusations being spread around that turned out to be completely false, ruining some people's lives or public image in the process. Yeah the blocking mentality is super stupid and people abuse it all the time. I cringe so damn hard everytime I see people blocking others for getting into a small argument or having a different opinion on actually debatable topics or of course the good old attack on someone and then insta-blocking them. Still what use does it have to just shout back? Report them. If they do it again they get punished or even outright banned. Reporting is your defence mechanism. You can also delete those comments on your content and then block the harasser.
And yeah those "bewares"; I am torn on them too. I think they generally are important but these can also lead to unfair witchhunts so it's a very fine line in my opinion.
Oh and nothing personal but please stop it with the federal law stuff. First of all: Not everyone is from the same country - specifically the usa - and this is a privately owned wesbite. It doesn't have to give any shit about the 2nd amendment or other "free speech" rules. If I create a private website, I make the rules.
What better reason than to stop trying to regulate your users? We're grown ass adults, we don't need big brother holding our hands. People fight regardless and they're only exacerbating the problem by trying to contain it. This is essentially our version of prohibition. In the sense that the more they try to squash it the more intense and uncontrollable it becomes. This whole idea that these websites allow users to 'police' themselves is absurd, and in the same hand their own heavy-handed approach to restrain their user base is outright authoritarian.
You know I keep trying to be as simple as I can when I explain this to people - I'm calling for more freedom and less censorship. That's not really a hard concept to follow. We need to be able to express ourselves without fear of others or a government, business, or any other entity having control over our inherent (yes, being able to speak is a natural ability of almost every human) right. Might not like what I have to say and you damn sure don't have to listen, but I sure as shit have the right to say it.
And in that
No, what you're saying is "You're not in the cult so you need to be purged." Thank you for this, now I know I shouldn't be leaving FA at all because the whole fucking reason I'm angry at it is because of people like YOU. In case you've forgotten FA wasn't built to be a LGBT+ site, it simply welcomed everyone.
You do have a recourse, you take a screenshot and send it to the mods if you feel you are being personally attacked. The rule for harassment is worded to avoid a few insults from becoming a flame war.
"So is this what you're attempting to push on us Furaffinity? You want to control our speech and allow others to post antagonist comments on our art and in our forums and they're allowed to block us to where we can't respond? You do realize that's silencing of people and if the person making these comments blocks you they're free to move on to the next person to attack?"
If this was a public website hosted and maintained by a government agency of some sort you would be correct, but it is not. FA is a private entity and like any private entity it can restrict the use of its services as it seems fit to keep its user base satisfied. It can moderate or censor if needed.
"This is beyond unacceptable and I will make it my mission to make this problem known to as many people as possible."
Knock yourself out, but do keep in mind that doing so may cause you to be marked as harasser on the places where you make such posts, of course if they are public maintained places you probably will be ok.
"Your rules seem to be in clear violation of laws protecting fair use. I'm specifically referring to what appears to be anti-parody policies in your rules. As far as I know federal law trumps your site rules. You might want to look into that because I know I damn sure am!"
Again , as private entity it is allowed to decide that constitutes "proper" parody for its site, maybe the mods/owners have certain views and want to stick with them, its their site not a public forum, plus fair use states: "Limited use of copyrighted material without having to first acquire permission from the copyright holder", which begs the question what kind of copyrighted material do you speak of?
On a side note I want to see more Renamon pr0n and PG art. 😁
Do you really want private companies to have this kind of power over you? Do you think they should be above the law because they're not a government agency, that they shouldn't be held accountable because it's private company? Well shit I operate a private company! I should be allowed to do that too!
Seriously, guys. You're not even trying to hold this site to accountability. If the law doesn't address it then their customers should, yes? If this is the kind of social environment you guys want then have it it, I won't support it.
That being said FA doesn't appear to break any laws or engage in criminal activity on the country it resides, if you can provide examples of this it would be open for discussion, but again censorship and moderation of its content are not laws being broken.
Cheers.
Way too many people pointing at the "private legality" of the rules, which is simply changing the subject, when it is about how it's WRONG.
Hell, gouvernments are legally allowed to control speech, does that make it right?
Many argue that it never is. That's what we're standing for.
Absolutely right. I see all these people with the "it's legal." which is probably the worst argument to make in this regard since that's what we're taking issue with. It's almost as if they don't realize that the very laws that allow FA to foster this environment are the same laws written by people actively seeking to undermine your freedoms and silence decent.
As you can see with some of them I just threw my hands up and walked away. You can't fight stupid, they'll bring you down to their level and beat you with experience.
Its a great way to send a message.
The internet sure ain't the fun playground it was even 10 years ago, all the censorship sure makes one want to take their ball and go home.
If you do find the next good escape, don't tell us. We'll just ruin it. :\
https://www.sofurry.com/forum/view/.....page=6#3015317
This specific post goes into it.
Pretty much, a lot of the oversensitivity and flocking to censorship that's shown up in the left might be stemming from taking it the wrong way when a jocular tone is used while discussing 'heavy' topics.
The resulting censorship and bias is still there, but it might be possible to break back through that bramble of authoritarian shit that's popped up in the divide.
I do not joke when it comes to politics, I am not jocular with an opponent, only a peer. These people are grown children and they have been actively trying to tear us all down for years. To watch the fandom fall into the depths of idpol and outright communism has broken my heart. We were once a community that valued individuality. Now it's just about conforming to right-think. I'm not changing who I am just so someone else can feel good about themselves. They need to learn that people are individuals again and that you can't control a person's thoughts, behaviors, desires, or reactions.
The solution is for people to learn how to take a hit and keep going instead of cry-bullying everything in their path.
What I say isn't to be jocular with them, just to understand that the jocular tone we use amongst ourselves is misrepresented in their circles in order to further the fear that they've been gobbling up. Their media pushes it and feeds into it because it gives them absolute control over their followers, as an outside observer you clearly see the end result is soviet east germany with the stazi executing people for wrongthink, but they're focused on the short term fearmongering that comes from every one of their information sources.
All I'm saying is that there might be a way to break through the wall of propaganda and re-open that line of open communication that the internet was in the '00s before it got so secularized to the point that nobody ever bothers to humanize themselves to the opposition.
The information machine makes all organization against whoever runs it completely impossible.
Its all just an arms race driven by those in power that nobody wants to be a part of, and I'm seeing a way out from under that boot through getting people to talk to each other again.
Or you know, a second dark ages or a weimar germany will do the job, too.
I got enough experience in enough trades that I'll make it through the coming hard times. Just afraid of what kind of stalin is going to emerge from the other end of the crash.
...unless you bring the website a huge portion of traffic, then magically not a single person cares.
How do you look at the thing giving you recourse for someone harassing you, and decide thats what's preventing your recourse?